Junior football, what is the future?

[SensibleSoccer]

9 hours ago, santheman said:

Check back the last 500 pages. I'm sure you'll find the answer in there somewhere

I did try, was hoping for a definitive update for the season end, has anyone officially resigned?

any official announcements been made?

[stulch]

Guess in most cases it’s indirectly the taxpayer.

No, it's me.

[Robert James]

8 hours ago, SensibleSoccer said:

I did try, was hoping for a definitive update for the season end, has anyone officially resigned?

any official announcements been made?

Pending confirmation at the various senior and junior AGMs, due to be held next month, the position as I understand it is :

 Highland League : Cove Rangers have won the "Club 42 play-off" and have replaced Berwick Rangers in the SPFL. The Highland League has not advertised the 'vacancy', but is willing to receive any applications.  It is "not a closed shop." No applicants have been announced so far. Fort William have confirmed that they intend to remain in the HFL, rather than (re)join the North Caley League

 Lowland League : the vacancy caused by Selkirk's demise, has indirectly been filled by Berwick Rangers. EoSL champions Bonnyrigg Rose have not been promoted as the club isn't a Member of the SFA, because they don't have any floodlights, and haven't got an Entry Licence . The club has challenged this, but there is no right of appeal, and the club's request for a "derogation" has been refused. At least one club, Linlithgow Rose, has applied to join the Lowland League (to replace Selkirk).  Whitehill Welfare, who finished 15th, would ordinarily be relegated,  but are understood to have applied for 're-instatement', and may gain a reprieve thereby remaining in the Lowland League. There is some debate about the  (mis)interpretation of the relegation rules, if an existing club resigns during any season, which will be sorted out at the Lowland's AGM   

 East of Scotland League : only one junior club Glenrothes has applied to join the league. They have been accepted into membership for 2019/20. Two amateur clubs also applied, namely Syngenta (Grangemouth) and Glenrothes Strollers, but their applications were rejected. A new EoS Premier Division has been formed for next season, comprised of the top 5 clubs from each of the 3 "Conferences" last season. The 16th club for 2019/20 could be Whitehill Welfare (as above), or Bonnyriggg Rose (if the unlikely event that the SFA changes its mind), or even one of the Lowland applicants (eg Linlithgow Rose). The number of applicants hasn't been announced, but is rumoured to be more than one applied to fill the Selkirk vacancy. Two EoSL First Divisions are proposed, organised as "Conferences" (at Tier 7) for 2019/20, on a similar basis to last season's arrangement, albeit adjusted in an innovative way (see chart above  posted a couple of days ago) by a Dunipace supporter).

East Region Juniors :  Glenrothes is the only existing club known to have resigned, and transferred to the seniors (as above).  The ERJFA has published its structure for 2019/20, in a format already agreed with existing member clubs.  It constitutes two geographical Super Leagues (North & South), and 2 geographical North & South 2nd tier divisions.  Two or three new amateur clubs have applied to join the ER League for next season.  However the SFA has rejected the East Juniors' application to join the Pyramid at Tier 6, as it won't accept 2  (equal status) superleague divisions feeding into the pyramid. There is also a problem caused by the SFA's Highland/Lowland boundary, which states that clubs north of the Tay Bridge, are designated as being in the Highland catchment area, which currently excludes them from Lowland and East of Scotland League membership

West Region Juniors : the entry of the West Juniors into the pyramid next season, has been deferred by the SFA until 2019/20, in part because the SJFA had stated the West's inclusion was conditional upon the East Juniors also becoming a pyramid feeder league in 2019/20 (rejected as above). Two Junior clubs, Cumnock and A N Other (rumoured to be Petershill), applied for an SFA Licence, but this has not been approved under the SFA's  'Commitment to the Pyramid' licensing rule.  Clydebank issued a recent statement that  a Mananagement  Committee meeting, scheduled for a few weeks ago, would be held to discuss the club's position regarding the pyramid.  There has been no official announcement since this meeting, although it is likely that the club (which had previously  "deferred" its application to join the EoSL), will await the outcome of the WRJFA AGM in June.  The SFA's decision to add floodlights, as the entry requirements for SFA membership, has given rise to debate and doubts from some West Juniors, about joining the pyramid. There have also been rumours on this forum, that some West clubs would support a ('breakaway') West of Scotland pyramid feeder league, if the West Juniors (ie all in, or all out) decide not to join the pyramid next as season

North Region Juniors : its clubs are apparently no longer interested in joining the pyramid. It is not been announced as to whether Banks O'Dee, or any of the other handful of North Juniors which currently have floodlights (an HFL entry requirement), have applied for the 'vacancy' in the HFL.  Also, Inverness City Juniors, have folded 

North Caledonian League :  from  initial discussions, the NCL has expressed some interest in joining the pyramid, but only if  a northern pyramid is formed including the North Juniors. The NCL covers the north and west Highlands, and Islands, and would seek to  become a separate pyramid feeder league from the North, and the  (north of) Tayside Junior leagues, although this development of a pyramid below the HFL, now appears to be unlikely in the foreseeable future.

 

In answer to your requests for an update, I hope that the above is reasonably accurate and up to date, although the situation remains "very fluid" . The PWG has been charged with  reviewing the juniors situation, as well as the pyramid's HFL/SLL boundary.  Apologies if any of the above is  inaccurate.  If it is, I am sure other contributors to this Forum, will  advise you (and me) otherwise.              Caveat - please remember, that we are talking about Scottish football !

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

41 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Pending confirmation at the various senior and junior AGMs, due to be held next month, the position as I understand it is :

 Highland League : Cove Rangers have won the "Club 42 play-off" and have replaced Berwick Rangers in the SPFL. The Highland League has not advertised the 'vacancy', but is willing to receive any applications.  It is "not a closed shop." No applicants have been announced so far. Fort William have confirmed that they intend to remain in the HFL, rather than (re)join the North Caley League

 Lowland League : the vacancy caused by Selkirk's demise, has indirectly been filled by Berwick Rangers. EoSL champions Bonnyrigg Rose have not been promoted as the club isn't a Member of the SFA, because they don't have any floodlights, and haven't got an Entry Licence . The club has challenged this, but there is no right of appeal, and the club's request for a "derogation" has been refused. At least one club, Linlithgow Rose, has applied to join the Lowland League (to replace Selkirk).  Whitehill Welfare, who finished 15th, would ordinarily be relegated,  but are understood to have applied for 're-instatement', and may gain a reprieve thereby remaining in the Lowland League. There is some debate about the  (mis)interpretation of the relegation rules, if an existing club resigns during any season, which will be sorted out at the Lowland's AGM   

 East of Scotland League : only one junior club Glenrothes has applied to join the league. They have been accepted into membership for 2019/20. Two amateur clubs also applied, namely Syngenta (Grangemouth) and Glenrothes Strollers, but their applications were rejected. A new EoS Premier Division has been formed for next season, comprised of the top 5 clubs from each of the 3 "Conferences" last season. The 16th club for 2019/20 could be Whitehill Welfare (as above), or Bonnyriggg Rose (if the unlikely event that the SFA changes its mind), or even one of the Lowland applicants (eg Linlithgow Rose). The number of applicants hasn't been announced, but is rumoured to be more than one applied to fill the Selkirk vacancy. Two EoSL First Divisions are proposed, organised as "Conferences" (at Tier 7) for 2019/20, on a similar basis to last season's arrangement, albeit adjusted in an innovative way (see chart above  posted a couple of days ago) by a Dunipace supporter).

East Region Juniors :  Glenrothes is the only existing club known to have resigned, and transferred to the seniors (as above).  The ERJFA has published its structure for 2019/20, in a format already agreed with existing member clubs.  It constitutes two geographical Super Leagues (North & South), and 2 geographical North & South 2nd tier divisions.  Two or three new amateur clubs have applied to join the ER League for next season.  However the SFA has rejected the East Juniors' application to join the Pyramid at Tier 6, as it won't accept 2  (equal status) superleague divisions feeding into the pyramid. There is also a problem caused by the SFA's Highland/Lowland boundary, which states that clubs north of the Tay Bridge, are designated as being in the Highland catchment area, which currently excludes them from Lowland and East of Scotland League membership

West Region Juniors : the entry of the West Juniors into the pyramid next season, has been deferred by the SFA until 2019/20, in part because the SJFA had stated the West's inclusion was conditional upon the East Juniors also becoming a pyramid feeder league in 2019/20 (rejected as above). Two Junior clubs, Cumnock and A N Other (rumoured to be Petershill), applied for an SFA Licence, but this has not been approved under the SFA's  'Commitment to the Pyramid' licensing rule.  Clydebank issued a recent statement that  a Mananagement  Committee meeting, scheduled for a few weeks ago, would be held to discuss the club's position regarding the pyramid.  There has been no official announcement since this meeting, although it is likely that the club (which had previously  "deferred" its application to join the EoSL), will await the outcome of the WRJFA AGM in June.  The SFA's decision to add floodlights, as the entry requirements for SFA membership, has given rise to debate and doubts from some West Juniors, about joining the pyramid. There have also been rumours on this forum, that some West clubs would support a ('breakaway') West of Scotland pyramid feeder league, if the West Juniors (ie all in, or all out) decide not to join the pyramid next as season

North Region Juniors : its clubs are apparently no longer interested in joining the pyramid. It is not been announced as to whether Banks O'Dee, or any of the other handful of North Juniors which currently have floodlights (an HFL entry requirement), have applied for the 'vacancy' in the HFL.  Also, Inverness City Juniors, have folded 

North Caledonian League :  from  initial discussions, the NCL has expressed some interest in joining the pyramid, but only if  a northern pyramid is formed including the North Juniors. The NCL covers the north and west Highlands, and Islands, and would seek to  become a separate pyramid feeder league from the North, and the  (north of) Tayside Junior leagues, although this development of a pyramid below the HFL, now appears to be unlikely in the foreseeable future.

 

In answer to your requests for an update, I hope that the above is reasonably accurate and up to date, although the situation remains "very fluid" . The PWG has been charged with  reviewing the juniors situation, as well as the pyramid's HFL/SLL boundary.  Apologies if any of the above is  inaccurate.  If it is, I am sure other contributors to this Forum, will  advise you (and me) otherwise.              Caveat - please remember, that we are talking about Scottish football !

 

Their won't be any applicants because Berwick came down. WhiteHill would only be relegated if Bonnyrigg had a licence 

[ShrimpLok]

50 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Pending confirmation at the various senior and junior AGMs, due to be held next month, the position as I understand it is :

 Highland League : Cove Rangers have won the "Club 42 play-off" and have replaced Berwick Rangers in the SPFL. The Highland League has not advertised the 'vacancy', but is willing to receive any applications.  It is "not a closed shop." No applicants have been announced so far. Fort William have confirmed that they intend to remain in the HFL, rather than (re)join the North Caley League

 Lowland League : the vacancy caused by Selkirk's demise, has indirectly been filled by Berwick Rangers. EoSL champions Bonnyrigg Rose have not been promoted as the club isn't a Member of the SFA, because they don't have any floodlights, and haven't got an Entry Licence . The club has challenged this, but there is no right of appeal, and the club's request for a "derogation" has been refused. At least one club, Linlithgow Rose, has applied to join the Lowland League (to replace Selkirk).  Whitehill Welfare, who finished 15th, would ordinarily be relegated,  but are understood to have applied for 're-instatement', and may gain a reprieve thereby remaining in the Lowland League. There is some debate about the  (mis)interpretation of the relegation rules, if an existing club resigns during any season, which will be sorted out at the Lowland's AGM   

 East of Scotland League : only one junior club Glenrothes has applied to join the league. They have been accepted into membership for 2019/20. Two amateur clubs also applied, namely Syngenta (Grangemouth) and Glenrothes Strollers, but their applications were rejected. A new EoS Premier Division has been formed for next season, comprised of the top 5 clubs from each of the 3 "Conferences" last season. The 16th club for 2019/20 could be Whitehill Welfare (as above), or Bonnyriggg Rose (if the unlikely event that the SFA changes its mind), or even one of the Lowland applicants (eg Linlithgow Rose). The number of applicants hasn't been announced, but is rumoured to be more than one applied to fill the Selkirk vacancy. Two EoSL First Divisions are proposed, organised as "Conferences" (at Tier 7) for 2019/20, on a similar basis to last season's arrangement, albeit adjusted in an innovative way (see chart above  posted a couple of days ago) by a Dunipace supporter).

East Region Juniors :  Glenrothes is the only existing club known to have resigned, and transferred to the seniors (as above).  The ERJFA has published its structure for 2019/20, in a format already agreed with existing member clubs.  It constitutes two geographical Super Leagues (North & South), and 2 geographical North & South 2nd tier divisions.  Two or three new amateur clubs have applied to join the ER League for next season.  However the SFA has rejected the East Juniors' application to join the Pyramid at Tier 6, as it won't accept 2  (equal status) superleague divisions feeding into the pyramid. There is also a problem caused by the SFA's Highland/Lowland boundary, which states that clubs north of the Tay Bridge, are designated as being in the Highland catchment area, which currently excludes them from Lowland and East of Scotland League membership

West Region Juniors : the entry of the West Juniors into the pyramid next season, has been deferred by the SFA until 2019/20, in part because the SJFA had stated the West's inclusion was conditional upon the East Juniors also becoming a pyramid feeder league in 2019/20 (rejected as above). Two Junior clubs, Cumnock and A N Other (rumoured to be Petershill), applied for an SFA Licence, but this has not been approved under the SFA's  'Commitment to the Pyramid' licensing rule.  Clydebank issued a recent statement that  a Mananagement  Committee meeting, scheduled for a few weeks ago, would be held to discuss the club's position regarding the pyramid.  There has been no official announcement since this meeting, although it is likely that the club (which had previously  "deferred" its application to join the EoSL), will await the outcome of the WRJFA AGM in June.  The SFA's decision to add floodlights, as the entry requirements for SFA membership, has given rise to debate and doubts from some West Juniors, about joining the pyramid. There have also been rumours on this forum, that some West clubs would support a ('breakaway') West of Scotland pyramid feeder league, if the West Juniors (ie all in, or all out) decide not to join the pyramid next as season

North Region Juniors : its clubs are apparently no longer interested in joining the pyramid. It is not been announced as to whether Banks O'Dee, or any of the other handful of North Juniors which currently have floodlights (an HFL entry requirement), have applied for the 'vacancy' in the HFL.  Also, Inverness City Juniors, have folded 

North Caledonian League :  from  initial discussions, the NCL has expressed some interest in joining the pyramid, but only if  a northern pyramid is formed including the North Juniors. The NCL covers the north and west Highlands, and Islands, and would seek to  become a separate pyramid feeder league from the North, and the  (north of) Tayside Junior leagues, although this development of a pyramid below the HFL, now appears to be unlikely in the foreseeable future.

 

In answer to your requests for an update, I hope that the above is reasonably accurate and up to date, although the situation remains "very fluid" . The PWG has been charged with  reviewing the juniors situation, as well as the pyramid's HFL/SLL boundary.  Apologies if any of the above is  inaccurate.  If it is, I am sure other contributors to this Forum, will  advise you (and me) otherwise.              Caveat - please remember, that we are talking about Scottish football !

 

The only bit you've got wrong is the EOS Premier for next year. The 16th club is Sauchie as Bonnyrigg (or Whitehill) are already included as one of the 15 from the 3 x top 5s. 

Should read:
A new EoS Premier Division has been formed for next season, comprised of the top 5 clubs from each of the 3 "Conferences" last season and the best placed 6th placed finisher, Sauchie.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Their won't be any applicants because Berwick came down. WhiteHill would only be relegated if Bonnyrigg had a licence 

It's not quite that simple if you read the rulebook, but the Lowland League board have the final say on the outcome, so that's probably effectively accurate.

[AlanCamelonfan]

32 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's not quite that simple if you read the rulebook, but the Lowland League board have the final say on the outcome, so that's probably effectively accurate.

That's what will happen. A bit stupid to take Whitehill out the league to be replaced by a team that couldn't win the conference 

[Robert James]

13 hours ago, SensibleSoccer said:

I did try, was hoping for a definitive update for the season end, has anyone officially resigned?

any official announcements been made?

"SS" does the above, answer your questions ?

What I don't know however, is whether there will be any clubs, whose licence application is "pending",  will be ready in time for consideration at a Licensing Committee/SFA Board meeting, in late June/early July ?

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Robert James
additional question added

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

More powerful than you think @inanimatecarbonrod

Box office.

[Blackie Gold]

Why are we discussing LL promotion and relegation on a Junior forum?

[Truthteller]

Correct and well said, keep their EOS and LL shite for their own forum.

[Guest]

Correct and well said, keep their EOS and LL shite for their own forum.

Someone asked regards the promotion spots and another poster has obliged. Given the thread is called junior football what is the future? And the west region/sfa are looking to integrate into the pyramid, why wouldnt there be a discussion regarding the LL and EOS? (it may impact on the sjfa in the very near future)

[Tutankhamen]

13 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

54 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

Correct and well said, keep their EOS and LL shite for their own forum.

Someone asked regards the promotion spots and another poster has obliged. Given the thread is called junior football what is the future? And the west region/sfa are looking to integrate into the pyramid, why wouldnt there be a discussion regarding the LL and EOS? (it may impact on the sjfa in the very near future)

I’d still like to know 800+ pages later what the benefits are for Talbot joining the pyramid?

[Guest]

If your club win the wos league they get into the LL and then if they win the LL get access to the spfl.... If that's what they wish to achieve longer term (instead of staying put in the same league). If not, stay as part of the sjfa. Nobody wants to force any club into something they don't want involved in. The other benefits have been listed many times, you are aware of them and I won't bore you or anyone else with them again.

 

 

[Wile E Coyote]

12 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

If your club win the wos league they get into the LL 

 

 

Will they ?. How did that work out for Bonnyrigg this season

[Guest]

Again, really? The sfa have pulled the rug out from under everyone's feet.... Not the eos or LL. Talbot would get a licence, they have all that is required. I do love how we like to use one example to justify a narrative that doesn't make sense.... 6 other clubs got a licence. More are likely to in the coming months... Including Bonnyrigg. But again, if your club doesn't believe in the pyramid or doesn't want to partake, don't sign up.... No one is forcing anyone. Stay in a set up where winning the top league takes you no further and progression stops each season.

[Wile E Coyote]

1 minute ago, G4Mac said:

Again, really? The sfa have pulled the rug out from under everyone's feet.... Not the eos or LL. Talbot would get a licence, they have all that is required. I do love how we like to use one example to justify a narrative that doesn't make sense.... 6 other clubs got a licence. More are likely to in the coming months... Including Bonnyrigg. But again, if your club doesn't believe in the pyramid or doesn't want to partake, don't sign up.... No one is forcing anyone. Stay in a set up where winning the top league takes you no further and progression stops each season.

Talbot would not get a licence. They don't have floodlights

[Guest]

I'm sure they could afford to get them if and when required. Again though, if clubs don't want to join the pyramid, don't join.

[Blackie Gold]

24 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

If your club win the wos league they get into the LL and then if they win the LL get access to the spfl.... If that's what they wish to achieve longer term (instead of staying put in the same league). If not, stay as part of the sjfa. Nobody wants to force any club into something they don't want involved in. The other benefits have been listed many times, you are aware of them and I won't bore you or anyone else with them again.

 

 

Maybe not true because the SFA might have moved the goalposts again. I really felt sorry for Bonnyrigg as their a well run club who were shafted due to wrong information.

[Guest]

No one is suggesting they won't. The next move, in my opinion, will be seated cover for 100 or more but that is a guess at best. Again though, if a club isn't interested don't join. They won't be forced against their will.