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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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I think in your ignorance you have unsurprisingly missed the point.

This isn't a good deal for anyone, the juniors included.

Talbot, for example, have 0.25 promotion spots available to their league and will have to fight for that spot against teams from above the Tay boundary who can't be promoted to LL under current rules (which this proposal doesn't address changing).

The West gets 0.25 promotion spots, the East 0.5 (on account of having two league's in the same geography).

Teams in the East now have two options. Let's say Whitehill get Relegated by finishing bottom. They look at the EoS premier and the ERSJFA south league. So they get to choose? Because of they want a chance at coming back up quickly they ain't choosing EoS. How's that fair to clubs in the West?

Or what if one of the top Ams teams in the East decide to try their arm. Where do they go? Do they get to choose and pick the league they think will be easier to navigate?

Take your association tinted specs off. This proposal, unless I'm missing something, is good for no one in the long run, East and West juniors included, for many, many reasons.
I'm not actually worrying about what league we will be in because any eventuality we will be fine.

On the other hand you are all in meltdown because you haven't got your way.

Ps. I'm sure someone mentioned last week that social media had no affect on any decisions made. Hmmmm starting to wonder now

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5 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Sandy.

out of interest, what would you expect to be on Tom's job description as full time SJFA Secretary? The regions run themselves, do they not (in terms of their own competitions, fixtures and discipline within that)? Registrations are done online through the SFA Extranet.

So that leaves administering the Scottish Junior Cup and reinstatements.

What else, specific to the SJFA, needs done? Marketing? Media? Corresponding? I know he has roles on various committees but they are not always SJFA specific, and I'd imagine do not meet that regularly?

I don't even know  or care if there is a job description for him Jamie but if there was then I would imagine that it would be along the lines of.

Carry out all administration duties   Ensure compliance of all clubs in regards to rules and regulations. Provide advice to clubs as and when required. Attend all Management meetings to ensure they are held according to the SJFA Constitution.  Represent the SJFA in all meetings with the SFA and any sub groups. Ensure any new applicants to the SJFA comply with entry criteria.  There's probably loads more he does. 

If the CLUBS think he isn't needed anymore or could do his job on a part time basis then its their prerogative to do something about it. Maybe they could put a time and motion guy into his office for a couple of weeks to see if he works his alloted 40 hours and we're getting value for money.

However my point was that this thread has seen repeated attacks on the SJFA and TJ personally from people who don't even do the most basic of research (or have a personal agenda) then launching into lengthy tirades and end up making a rip roaring cnut of themselves.  

And that's coming from someone who would like to see the Juniors in a (proper)pyramid

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1 hour ago, Black & Red Socks said:

It really doesn’t matter what Maxwell has made clear from the start, rules and regulations of any competition have to be abided by and cannot be ridden rough shod over by anyone, regardless of who they are. Any changes to the rules governing the promotion/relegation of clubs to/from the Lowland League have to be agreed to by all affected leagues. It’s quite clear that if any one of the leagues in question reject the SFA proposal then it will not happen - and I understand that both the EoSFL and the SLFL are recommending to their clubs that the SFA proposal is rejected.

I can't see any provisions within the SFA handbook/manual which gives powers to its Chief Executive to personally override the rules and regulations governing the Lowland or EoS leagues. Therefore I am not surprised that Ian Maxwell (apparently ?) didn't contribute much at this particular meeting, as it could be risky for him to do so.

Approximately 300 posts ago, I warned that this matter could go to litigation. I hope that I am wrong, in the interests of Scottish non-league football, but the current situation appears to be shambolic.

However, going against my general principles (where I usually assume that the particular 'organisation' knows best), my advice to the SFA is that they should appoint an independent 'consultant',  to carry out a review of the current situation, including separate consultation with the Leagues/Associations concerned, and also by examining how other countries organise/operate a football pyramid. Once  this 'review' is completed, the 'consultant' can make recommendations direct to the SFA, without inappropriate 'interference' from those with a "vested interest".   

In the meantime, the senior and junior clubs can continue to make their own decisions, on the basis of what is best for them for the future. Sad, but IMO it should lead to a better long term solution for the pyramid, etc ?

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5 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I can't see any provisions within the SFA handbook/manual which gives powers to its Chief Executive to personally override the rules and regulations governing the Lowland or EoS leagues.

In the Janaury PWG meetings minutes it was mentioned that the Lowland League hadn't come up with a proposal for the Lowland League play-off. The LL saying nothing had been proposed by the PWG for them to work on.

So Maxwell says he would come with a proposal on behalf of the PWG so that it could be worked on by the Lowland League representative. I think this proposal is being misconstrued as a dictation from the SFA.

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The Chief Executive cant override rules and regulations but the SFA Board can.

It would appear that whoever was representing the EoSL in October agreed to the Juniors coming in at tier6 and ever since then the EoSL are trying to disagree!

 

Edited by Kilbowie Benches

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9 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The Chief Executive cant override rules and regulations but the SFA Board can.

It would appear that whoever was representing the EoSL in October agreed to the Juniors coming in at tier6 and ever since then the EoSL are trying to disagree!

 

The October email came off the back of a Professional Game Board meeting where only Tiers 1-5 are represented. It also doesn't have SJFA representation.

If the EoS had been there then the email would never have been sent as the same issues would have arisen and there wouldn't have been this misunderstanding of what they had given their okay (tier 6 West & Tayside).

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19 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The Chief Executive cant override rules and regulations but the SFA Board can.

It would appear that whoever was representing the EoSL in October agreed to the Juniors coming in at tier6 and ever since then the EoSL are trying to disagree!

 

if they could do that, there would be more than one promotion/relegation slot from spfl2.

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 This should be a moment of triumph for the people like Burnieman who have been arguing for junior pyramid entry for the last 20 years or so. Not entirely clear why having two parallel feeders is viewed as being an insurmountable obstacle. Assuming the SFA board can and will override any objections that will no doubt sort itself out over the next few years. In the same sort of way that the Isthmian and Southern Leagues did in England.

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Where is Burnieman? This is comedy gold 

 

Don't worry yourself Isa, the only comedy around here is you still craving attention. 

Word reached Kazakhstan that, as expected, the LL and EoS have recommended to members that that plan tabled by the SFA at last PWG is rejected. 

Plan is dead. That will please you as no Talbot in senior football next season as things stand.

 

Now, almost time for breakfast Chianti. Ciao.

 

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Don't worry yourself Isa, the only comedy around here is you still craving attention. 

Word reached Kazakhstan that, as expected, the LL and EoS have recommended to members that that plan tabled by the SFA at last PWG is rejected. 

Plan is dead. That will please you as no Talbot in senior football next season as things stand.

 

Now, almost time for breakfast Chianti. Ciao.

 

 

 

 

 

Fūcksake Burnie, I've been phoning round the hospitals...Gartloch, Hartwood...Carstairs.

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Don't worry yourself Isa, the only comedy around here is you still craving attention. Word reached Kazakhstan that, as expected, the LL and EoS have recommended to members that that plan tabled by the SFA at last PWG is rejected. Plan is dead. That will please you as no Talbot in senior football next season as things stand. 

Now, almost time for breakfast Chianti. Ciao.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yer absolutely raging  All those hours on here for basic return.

I'll raise a toast to arrogant so and so's like you who roasted anyone who disagreed with your point of view.

I advocate change but it's also good to see the smirk wiped off you and your wee chums as your crusade fell flat.

 

Social media does work in my opinion and you probably contributed the outcome by the constant posts on change.

 

 

 

 

 

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Yer absolutely raging  All those hours on here for basic return.
I'll raise a toast to arrogant so and so's like you who roasted anyone who disagreed with your point of view.
I advocate change but it's also good to see the smirk wiped of you and your wee chums as your crusade fell flat.
 
Social media does work in my opinion and you probably contributed the outcome by the constant posts on change.
 
 
 
Dont have a meltdown Isa, I'm delighted this half-cocked plan is being rejected, just as predicted.

Hopefully a way is found to get the west in, but as I have always said, the east requires a different solution.

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Dont have a meltdown Isa, I'm delighted this half-cocked plan is being rejected, just as predicted.

Hopefully a way is found to get the west in, but as I have always said, the east requires a different solution.

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Ian Maxwell's comments in the leaked PWG minutes as to what would happen if the proposal was stalled for the wrong reasons suggested that the LL and EoS don't have an absolute veto on what happens next.

I can see why the EoS might feel somewhat aggrieved about no longer being the only east feeder, but LL opposition at this stage looks like pure self preservation society stuff. If west superleague clubs get serious about licensing and progression most of the LL outside the SoS catchment will eventually wind up at around tier 7 at best.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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I have had my say previously, West in as a tiered structure covering Glasgow and Ayrshire, the ersjfa mixed with current eosfl clubs (tier 7) under the Premier eosfl. 2 promotion spots to the LL with the eosfl, wrsjfa and sos playing off for both. 

That appears quite a straightforward solution but it wouldn't surprise me any if the final outcome was different to that. 

However, until someone gives everyone some form of official outcome, we are all guessing, speculating and submising..... From all sides of the argument. 

If we don't get this right at this stage, that will have been twice in 6 years that we have set up a flawed pyramid structure. Approaching this with a 'it will sort itself out eventually' outlook is potentially going to create more problems in the long term. 

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Just now, LongTimeLurker said:

Ian Maxwell's comments in the leaked PWG minutes as to what would happen if the proposal was stalled for the wrong reasons suggested that the LL and EoS don't have an absolute veto and what happens next.

I can see why the EoS might feel somewhat aggrieved about no longer being the only east feeder, but LL opposition at this stage looks like pure self preservation society stuff. If west superleague clubs get serious about licensing and progression most of the LL outside the SoS catchment will eventually wind up at around tier 7 at best.

Forget the fact that they aren't the only East feeder under this proposal. Their promotion prospects would be halved.

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Ian Maxwell's comments in the leaked PWG minutes as to what would happen if the proposal was stalled for the wrong reasons suggested that the LL and EoS don't have an absolute veto on what happens next.
I can see why the EoS might feel somewhat aggrieved about no longer being the only east feeder, but LL opposition at this stage looks like pure self preservation society stuff. If west superleague clubs get serious about licensing and progression most of the LL outside the SoS catchment will eventually wind up at around tier 7 at best.
The SFA cannot force member leagues to accept major changes they consider detrimental to them. Colts into the SPFL should be a clear indicator of that. Rejected out of hand.

Maxwell's comments, if accurate, show the guy is completely out of his depth.

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2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Ian Maxwell's comments in the leaked PWG minutes as to what would happen if the proposal was stalled for the wrong reasons suggested that the LL and EoS don't have an absolute veto on what happens next.

I can see why the EoS might feel somewhat aggrieved about no longer being the only east feeder, but LL opposition at this stage looks like pure self preservation society stuff. If west superleague clubs get serious about licensing and progression most of the LL outside the SoS catchment will eventually wind up at around tier 7 at best.

The LL clubs are affiliates of the eosfl and all began there, so I'd be surprised if they voted against their original league. 

Your next comment about the LL and west clubs suggests you may not have watched much LL football..... I'll give you the bottom 5 or 6 teams but the rest are more than capable of holding their own against the better clubs at the top end of the wrsjfa. (this is based on coaching in the LL for 2 years and watching games/players in both the LL and supeleagues East and west, not on one off cup results either way.) 

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