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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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26 minutes ago, Kemlin Dan said:

Lets make the illustration Blackburn at Tier 8 then,4 ERJFA cannot possibly come over,it all needs voted in  for that number of relegation spots and also what happens to Conference winners would take it to 6 relegation places, it also comes down to why should ERJFA get 4 teams and Tier 7 get 2 spots 1 from each Conference. If your a Tier 7 team and watch 2 or 4 ERJFA teams jump into Tier 6 there is always that side of things as well,why would any existing EOS team at Tier 7 forego their place in Tier 6.

The sooner we go back to realizing ERJFA don't sit in Tier 6 on any parallel system, the sooner all ERJFA come in at Tier 7 and work their way up.

:blink:

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29 minutes ago, humphrey said:

im already in it. note in the new structure now being discussed the Tayside teams are not now going north. funny how a line can move when it suits

So you're hee haw to do with Breadalbane then? The line hasn't moved.

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1 hour ago, Vollyman said:


At least he is being constructive by putting forward a feasible proposition.The PWG has been in operation for 18 years and has been devoid of ideas which is scandalous.

You may be right but the amount of teams in the system have increased from 42 to over 120 this season., not perfect but compared to 19 years ago its a big improvement.

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51 minutes ago, humphrey said:

im already in it. note in the new structure now being discussed the Tayside teams are not now going north. funny how a line can move when it suits

It hasn't moved though

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As it stands I'd guess there's technically no reason clubs north of the line can't join to EoS if they wanted, it would of course be up to the existing member clubs to decide whether or not to accept them.

They would however not be eligible for promotion to the Lowland League (even if licensed) and as the EoS isn't a feeder for the Highland League they couldn't go there either.

The only way this changes is if Scottish Football, as a whole, agrees to either move the dividing line or do away with the line completely and simply have the 18 most Northerly Tier 5 clubs in the Highland League and the 16 most Southerly Tier 5 clubs in the Lowland League.

Whatever happens there will be those who are happy and those who aren't but as some have suggested previously, I honestly can't see the line being moved to suit a tiny minority of Junior clubs who in the grand scheme of things matter very little (as is the case with most clubs at this level in the eyes of both the SFA and the general man in the street)

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I've had time to think about this a bit.If the Chief Exec had any knowledge of non league football it's easily sorted.
How can you have possibly around 150 clubs trying to access SPFL if there desire so wishes ( if u include all West and East juniors).
A and have 18 at the other side which is closed shop.
Should call it the leaning tower of Pisa and no a pyramid.

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Looks like that Glenafton fud who goes around red dotting certain people has a new ID = Lanemark.

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21 minutes ago, Fife Journeyman said:

I've had time to think about this a bit.If the Chief Exec had any knowledge of non league football it's easily sorted.
How can you have possibly around 150 clubs trying to access SPFL if there desire so wishes ( if u include all West and East juniors).
A and have 18 at the other side which is closed shop.
Should call it the leaning tower of Pisa and no a pyramid.

The HL isn't a closed shop, just that nobody appears interested in applying.

IF, and it is an IF, Tayside teams end up in a LL feeder then it does call into question whether the HL deserve equal opportunity to access the SPFL as the LL, on the face of it they don't and that would need to change through time.

Long way to go before we get anywhere near to that stage though.

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If the HL/LL boundry gets redrawn where would the line be drawn roughly? (I'm not over familiar with geography in that part of the world).

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14 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

If the HL/LL boundry gets redrawn where would the line be drawn roughly? (I'm not over familiar with geography in that part of the world).

The logic would dictate where East and North Juniors separate - Brechin being the furthest north in East and Stonehaven the furthest south in North. But then Montrose Roselea joined the NRSJFA in 2017 and they're further south than Brechin (just)!

Edited by cmontheloknow

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Excellent and surely all associations and clubs would accept this 

The structure in the long term, yes. For next season, no, would be hugely counterproductive and I think more than a few clubs would be furious at a last minute shifting of the goalposts.

 

Needs to be conferences at Teir 7 next year to get the league's below sorted fairly for 20/21.

 

As has been said on many occasions, Relegating clubs 2 teirs who are only expecting to drop 1 isn't on. We can't shift the goalposts with next to no games to play.

 

Needs to be fair for all, like it had this season. Including the incoming juniors.

 

EoS Premier as planned, conferences at Teir 7 for 1 session to let everyone win their place in the structure for the season after.

 

Has worked well this year.

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2 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Only option for me is the 17 south of the tay clubs join the t7 conferences. Erjsfa look after the 19 Tay clubs for whatever they are going to do

If the boundary gets moved AND there is a managed merger between EOS & ERJFA, the ERJFA will also need to get spots in the EOS Premier. This could realistically start in 2020 at the earliest. If that happens (and a big if as there are many things to be agreed), the 2019/20 season can decide spots in the following season. 

An example of what can happen is below, this assumes the ERJFA North has a 10 team Super league & 9 team Premier league, ERJFA South 9 team Super league & 9 team Premier league. Also, I assume the EOS will have a 16 team Premier division & 2 x 12 team conferences at tier 7. The structure for the 2020/21 season could be:

Premier division (16 teams, 1 division):
Top 10 EOS Premier
Top 2 ERJFA North Super
Top 2 ERJFA South Super
2 Champions EOS Conferences

First division (32 teams over a north & south division):
11-16 EOS Premier
3-9 ERJFA North Super
3-8 ERJFA South Super
2 Champions ERJFA Premier
2-6 EOS conferences + winner of a play-off between 7th placed teams

Second division (29 teams over a north & south division):
10 ERJFA North Super
9 ERJFA South Super
2-9 ERJFA North Premier
2-9 ERJFA South Premier
8-12 EOS conferences + loser of a play-off between 7th placed teams

That would then give a clear structure for tier 6, 7 and 8. Tier 8 could be expanded to 3 divisions if there would be more than 3 applications from new clubs / amateurs. Obviously relegation from the LL and promotion into it could slightly change matters, but this could be largely workable.

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8 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

The structure in the long term, yes. For next season, no, would be hugely counterproductive and I think more than a few clubs would be furious at a last minute shifting of the goalposts.

 

Needs to be conferences at Teir 7 next year to get the league's below sorted fairly for 20/21.

 

As has been said on many occasions, Relegating clubs 2 teirs who are only expecting to drop 1 isn't on. We can't shift the goalposts with next to no games to play.

 

Needs to be fair for all, like it had this season. Including the incoming juniors.

 

EoS Premier as planned, conferences at Teir 7 for 1 session to let everyone win their place in the structure for the season after.

 

Has worked well this year.

Agree, my suggestion on structure is what could be in place for 2020-21  (you need a structure before the start of next season so you know what you're playing for).

Next season should progress as planned, same in the ERJFA, with finishing places determining where you end up in a new structure.

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Agree, my suggestion on structure is what could be in place for 2020-21  (you need a structure before the start of next season so you know what you're playing for).
Next season should progress as planned, same in the ERJFA, with finishing places determining where you end up in a new structure.
Yep, I know your agree mate, we've had this discussion a few times.

It was a different forum and replying for everyone else to Bluebells post.

We finally seen to be making good progress. Finally. Hopefully..

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51 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The HL isn't a closed shop, just that nobody appears interested in applying.

IF, and it is an IF, Tayside teams end up in a LL feeder then it does call into question whether the HL deserve equal opportunity to access the SPFL as the LL, on the face of it they don't and that would need to change through time.

Long way to go before we get anywhere near to that stage though.

They won’t though 

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7 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Yep, I know your agree mate, we've had this discussion a few times. emoji846.png

It was a different forum and replying for everyone else to Bluebells post.

We finally seen to be making good progress. Finally. Hopefully..emoji846.png

Fingers crossed.  The Tayside issue is the big sticking point, but as long as everyone goes into it with an open mind we might get a solution that suits everyone.

Personally I think Tayside should go North, but at the end of the day I don't see it being a massive showstopper if it gets everyone on board initially.  At some point down the road the whole HL /LL thing needs looked at.

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2 minutes ago, falkirktv said:

They won’t though 

Maybe the line wont be moved, maybe it will, who knows.

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29 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

The structure in the long term, yes. For next season, no, would be hugely counterproductive and I think more than a few clubs would be furious at a last minute shifting of the goalposts.

 

Needs to be conferences at Teir 7 next year to get the league's below sorted fairly for 20/21.

 

As has been said on many occasions, Relegating clubs 2 teirs who are only expecting to drop 1 isn't on. We can't shift the goalposts with next to no games to play.

 

Needs to be fair for all, like it had this season. Including the incoming juniors.

 

EoS Premier as planned, conferences at Teir 7 for 1 session to let everyone win their place in the structure for the season after.

 

Has worked well this year.

Agree to this 

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Just now, Burnie_man said:

Maybe the line wont be moved, maybe it will, who knows.

The pwg won’t be able to move the line, nor will a meeting between the two in the east. The sticking point is the teams south of Tay. There is a vacancy for a tier six in tayside everyone agrees on it the line says just now it’s a HL feeder. 

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11 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Fingers crossed.  The Tayside issue is the big sticking point, but as long as everyone goes into it with an open mind we might get a solution that suits everyone.

Personally I think Tayside should go North, but at the end of the day I don't see it being a massive showstopper if it gets everyone on board initially.  At some point down the road the whole HL /LL thing needs looked at.

The biggest downside of moving the boundary is that with Tayside in the LL area, that area is really much bigger than the HL area, even worse than it is now. However, if this would create a compromise to get the juniors on board, I don't think it should be ruled out. To reflect the much larger area the LL serves, the pyramid play-off could include both the LL champion & runners up, the HL champion & SPFL club 42 who all play a semi final and a final. This system is used successfully in Germany where regional leagues serving a larger area get more promotion and/or play-off spots to higher tiers.

Ultimately I'd like to see automatic relegation for SPFL42 & a PO spot for SPFL41, that could be solved by making it a 4 team round robin instead with the top 2 going into the SPFL.

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