Kilbowie Benches Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 42 minutes ago, Sidney Lumet said: I'm sure I've read somewhere in one of these threads that Kilbowie Benches represents Clydebank in an official capacity. If so, his tone and choice of words when discussing the EoSFL and its representatives should be pretty disturbing for fans of his club when you consider that the EoSFL and EoSFA boards have been nothing but accommodating to Clydebank when they were holding joint discussions on the Bankies moving to the EoSFL. To have someone involved in the running of the club constantly and wilfully misunderstand or, indeed, deliberately misrepresent the EoSFL's position on all of this is pretty poor stuff. It's been clearly and concisely set out in this and other threads by several posters that the EoSFL would welcome a west feeder league into the Lowland League and that they, and the Lowland League, only oppose the nonsensical idea of a geographically overlapping feeder league in the east - what is difficult to understand about this is, well, difficult to understand. They’re not welcoming the West Region Juniors in though ! They are still banging on about discipline and other nonsense that the SFA have already sorted! Why can’t anyone from the East coast see that ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: They’re not welcoming the West Region Juniors in though ! They are still banging on about discipline and other nonsense that the SFA have already sorted! Why can’t anyone from the East coast see that ? For goodness sake man, are you deliberately being obtuse or are you entirely unable to follow the logic on this? The SFA proposal (and I think most can see that it's a proposal whose seeds were sown entirely by the SJFA) asks the Lowland League and the EoSFL to accept BOTH the WRSJFA and the ERSJFA as feeder leagues to the Lowland League. For the glaringly obvious reasons that have been set out time and time and time and time again for you, this will simply not fly. Not now, not ever. However, should the west clubs/SFA/SJFA come back with a proposal that looks to bring the west in at Tier 6 and below with discussions on an orderly merger of EoSFL and ERSJFA teams to be had? Well then now you're talking. The disciplinary issues - and they are issues as the idea of fining players in one feeder league and not in another is foolish beyond belief - are real for the east clubs, but it would not be beyond the wit of man to find a sensible compromise on this. Why can't you see this and why can't you see that ignoring these realities and choosing instead to bad mouth the leagues you wish to share a pyramid with can only be counterproductive? 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 What are the compromises from the SJFA? As it stands they want to enter with the west and east intact, and with them being being able to keep parts of their disciplinary system and fines.What have they compromised on?They haven’t hence why I said there needs to be compromise an all sides to get past the impasse that currently exists. You will only find a compromise if both sides come to the table with suggestions on the way forward and it doesn’t look like from the minutes that the EOSFL have done so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 So what compromise have the juniors given? From what has been proposed they want in the pyramid but keep everything as is?They haven’t put any forward, that’s why all sides need to find a compromise. The EOSFL/LL haven’t brought anything to the table apart from rejecting all ideas from the SFA/SJFA. That’s there trump card and they can play it, but it doesn’t look like they have entered the negotiation in good faith. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said: They haven’t put any forward, that’s why all sides need to find a compromise. The EOSFL/LL haven’t brought anything to the table apart from rejecting all ideas from the SFA/SJFA. That’s there trump card and they can play it, but it doesn’t look like they have entered the negotiation in good faith. Are you thick or something people have already told you what they have tried to do. Should leave u lot dieing on your arse in your wee bubble 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 50 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said: For goodness sake man, are you deliberately being obtuse or are you entirely unable to follow the logic on this? The SFA proposal (and I think most can see that it's a proposal whose seeds were sown entirely by the SJFA) asks the Lowland League and the EoSFL to accept BOTH the WRSJFA and the ERSJFA as feeder leagues to the Lowland League. For the glaringly obvious reasons that have been set out time and time and time and time again for you, this will simply not fly. Not now, not ever. However, should the west clubs/SFA/SJFA come back with a proposal that looks to bring the west in at Tier 6 and below with discussions on an orderly merger of EoSFL and ERSJFA teams to be had? Well then now you're talking. The disciplinary issues - and they are issues as the idea of fining players in one feeder league and not in another is foolish beyond belief - are real for the east clubs, but it would not be beyond the wit of man to find a sensible compromise on this. Why can't you see this and why can't you see that ignoring these realities and choosing instead to bad mouth the leagues you wish to share a pyramid with can only be counterproductive? Why can’t you see that the EoSL and LL are in effect the same thing! All the clubs that are in the LL apart from newly formed boys club teams and a French abomination. They are always going to stick together! The EoSL are NOT welcoming the West Juniors in that is just not true. The plan from the SFA has the backing of the SJFA and SoSL but unsurprisingly the joint LL/EOSL are the ones who are trying to nit pick and block Junior entry.The point you keep banging on about is the geography issue with the ERJFA and I get that! Fair play to the EoSL for trying to find a resolution with their ERJFA counterparts and hopefully something will come of those discussions. Why can’t the EoSL/LL just come out unequivocally and state that they are happy for the West Region to join from next season? Despite what people say on here they have never publicly or in any meetings said that! -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I'm sure I've read somewhere in one of these threads that Kilbowie Benches represents Clydebank in an official capacity. If so, his tone and choice of words when discussing the EoSFL and its representatives should be pretty disturbing for fans of his club when you consider that the EoSFL and EoSFA boards have been nothing but accommodating to Clydebank when they were holding joint discussions on the Bankies moving to the EoSFL. To have someone involved in the running of the club constantly and wilfully misunderstand or, indeed, deliberately misrepresent the EoSFL's position on all of this is pretty poor stuff. It's been clearly and concisely set out in this and other threads by several posters that the EoSFL would welcome a west feeder league into the Lowland League and that they, and the Lowland League, only oppose the nonsensical idea of a geographically overlapping feeder league in the east - what is difficult to understand about this is, well, difficult to understand.I disagree with KB and im not sure his views on the EOSL clubs and the way they are expressed is reflective of the views of our support as a whole. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Why can’t you see that the EoSL and LL are in effect the same thing! All the clubs that are in the LL apart from newly formed boys club teams and a French abomination. They are always going to stick together! The EoSL are NOT welcoming the West Juniors in that is just not true. The plan from the SFA has the backing of the SJFA and SoSL but unsurprisingly the joint LL/EOSL are the ones who are trying to nit pick and block Junior entry.The point you keep banging on about is the geography issue with the ERJFA and I get that! Fair play to the EoSL for trying to find a resolution with their ERJFA counterparts and hopefully something will come of those discussions. Why can’t the EoSL/LL just come out unequivocally and state that they are happy for the West Region to join from next season? Despite what people say on here they have never publicly or in any meetings said that! They did back in May in TJ's own email. Straw poll done amongst all the representatives. HL/LL okay as long as rules & disciplinary align. EoS only the West Region. SoS okay with everything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Why can’t the EoSL/LL just come out unequivocally and state that they are happy for the West Region to join from next season? Despite what people say on here they have never publicly or in any meetings said that! I believe that they have already stated such at the PWG - but why can't the SJFA come out and say that they are willing to negotiate full access to the Pyramid for the west region and will facilitate negotiations between the ERSJFA and the EoSFL to allow them to come to a merger arrangement suitable for all? This is what you and your club and all of the west clubs should be insisting of the SJFA. It is, after all, the SJFA who wish to join the Pyramid at this late date and who should, therefore, be willing to understand the parameters by which they can do so. Edited April 3, 2019 by Black & Red Socks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Are you thick or something people have already told you what they have tried to do. Should leave u lot dieing on your arse in your wee bubble Lowering your self to insults shows you up more than me. I’m only giving my opinion. I don’t want my club to stay where we are, I want them to progress as far as they can go but what I see is an organisation and other clubs stopping them. That’s my opinion. If you don’t like my opinion then block me but don’t come on here with personal insults. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Lumet Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 58 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said: Are you thick or something people have already told you what they have tried to do. Should leave u lot dieing on your arse in your wee bubble Alan, you do neither side of the argument any good whatsoever with personal insults. It's poor on your part. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 They did back in May in TJ's own email. Straw poll done amongst all the representatives. HL/LL okay as long as rules & disciplinary align. EoS only the West Region. SoS okay with everything.With the conditions that SFA administer discipline which the SFA says they can’t and are content with the status quo. This has no impact on the EOSFL or the LL but are being used by some as a reason to delay or block this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said: I believe that they have already stated such at the PWG - but why can't the SJFA come out and say that they are willing to negotiate full access to the Pyramid for the west region and will facilitate negotiations between the ERSJFA and the EoSFL to allow them to come to a merger arrangement suitable for all? This is what you and your club and all of the west clubs should be insisting of the SJFA. It is, after all, the SJFA who wish to join the Pyramid at this late date and who should, therefore, be willing to understand the parameters by which they can do so. Because the only mandate given to the SJFA by the clubs was for full entry and TJ is acting on that mandate If the clubs want to change that then they can 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, santheman said: Because the only mandate given to the SJFA by the clubs was for full entry and TJ is acting on that mandate If the clubs want to change that then they can But that "full entry" doesn't include the North Region? The EoSFL and the Lowland League have been given a unanimous mandate by their clubs to reject such a "full entry", so it's incumbent upon the SJFA as the applicant body to go back to their clubs and secure a fresh mandate - something they would appear not to have done to exclude the North Region from this pursuit of "full entry". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Arthurlie, I think what Alan is trying to say (sorry Alan) is that your information and what you may be getting told or interpreting is not 100% accurate. The eosfl has clearly stated on numerous minutes and in various meetings they are happy to accept the ersjfa into their own setup (they accepted a few last year at this time) below next years Premier league (most likely geographically based conferences). They have also clearly stated that they will not accept another feeder league covering the same geographical area as them..... Because that's just not reasonable or fair, as they are and have been the recognised feeder league in the east for a sustained period...... (It would have been a bit like the eosfl joining the east or west junior set up 5 years ago and playing at the same level as the old superlegues whilst getting the same perks with none of the cons, for free.) The fact that the sjfa balloted their own clubs with a 2 option questionnaire is the sticking point, you cant demand concessions from someone else because you have failed to think about the bigger picture at the outset of your own ballot. The west is and always will be an easy, come on in and slot in as the west feeder (the eosfl have offered and would probably still offer to set up and help run a West feeder league to the LL). The fact is they won't accept the east set up as is proposed and this is delaying the west.... This is really not of the eos leagues doing.... This is the position the sjfa forced to clubs to vote on, nothing to do with the eosfl, sadly. (As I think if the eosfl were spearheading this, all these different options would have been thought out and this would have been progressed by now.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said: Lowering your self to insults shows you up more than me. I’m only giving my opinion. I don’t want my club to stay where we are, I want them to progress as far as they can go but what I see is an organisation and other clubs stopping them. That’s my opinion. If you don’t like my opinion then block me but don’t come on here with personal insults. Take your anger out then on the one organisation thats holding it up and thats sjfa. EOSFL have done countless things. Its sjfa just want to shoehorn themselves that is the problem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 1 possibly 2 former East junior giants now on the cusp of the 5th tier of Scottish football,thanks to the LL's decision. Wakey wakey junior fitba 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said: With the conditions that SFA administer discipline which the SFA says they can’t and are content with the status quo. This has no impact on the EOSFL or the LL but are being used by some as a reason to delay or block this. This ^^ Prople keep saying that the EoSL are happy for the West Juniors to come in. That just isn’t true! Edited April 3, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Kilbowie Benches said: This ^^ Prople keep saying that the EoSL are happy for the West Juniors to come in. That just isn’t true! The EOSFL are happy as long as they apply the same rules as everyone else. where you may be mistaken as to who might not like it might be the West Lowland league teams who if they were to be relegated fall into the myre of being controlled by SJFA 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: This ^^ Prople keep saying that the EoSL are happy for the West Juniors to come in. That just isn’t true! Do you have any evidence to show that they aren't? Everything I've seen has suggested that they'd very happy to have the West Region on board in whatever form. Edited April 3, 2019 by craigkillie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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