Junior football, what is the future?

[Arthurlie1981]

Having no association with any of the leagues it looks to me that it is the juniors that haven't given any ground.

 

The EOSFL accepted a host of junior clubs last season which has essentially relegated most of the previous members down a tier. They and the SOSL were willing to accept the West juniors in as is which would significantly reduce their chance of getting promoted to the Lowland league.

 

The East juniors contains a number of clubs that arent eligible to play in a Lowland league feeder league anyway.

 

 

Clubs they were only too willing to accept. They didn’t have to but it benefited them to do so.

 

 

Edited to add: to delete the bit about licences after the East’s tweet tonight.

[Arthurlie1981]

They did southe of Tay teams join them.  Get west in as is. Tayside isn't in their power so pleasee tell me what the problem is

I haven’t seen anywhere that the LL/HL line has moved. I thought that was one of the EOSFL concerns is it not?

[stulch]

https://twitter.com/EastScotlandFA/status/1113134228898828290

[Arthurlie1981]

Yes compromise must come from all sides, so could you tell us what constructive alternative the SJFA is putting forward having dug in with their binary plan of all juniors in the pyramid?

 

They put forward an option which was rejected. The EOSFL have put forward no alternatives in the discussions (according to the minutes). At least the opposition parties in Brexit accepted that it’s going to happen and have put forward alternative proposals. The EOSFL haven’t really engaged with discussions by the look of and with Big Als summing up.

 

Compromises could be along the lines of that we have a 5 year trial. The winner of the East Juniors plays the winners of the West Juniors with the winner facing winner of play off between EOS/SOS in a one of final and make it a big marketable occasion.

 

That has little impact on the EOSFL as if the West came in that would likely be the scenario anyway would it not?

 

The other option (and I have suggested it before) is to get an independent group together to develop plans with agreement that whatever they come up with is adopted. This takes away a lot of the mistrust that is now on all sides.

 

No option is perfect but we have to try something to improve the non league game in Scotland.

 

Edited to add: the SJFA compromise could be with discipline as it seems a sore point for some EOSFL clubs (and some on here). If that’s a deal breaker by all mean adopt what everyone else is doing.

[Jack Burton]

 
Clubs they were only too willing to accept. They didn’t have to but it benefited them to do so.
 
 
Edited to add: to delete the bit about licences after the East’s tweet tonight.

So what compromise have the juniors given? From what has been proposed they want in the pyramid but keep everything as is?

[Burnie_man]

 
They put forward an option which was rejected. The EOSFL have put forward no alternatives in the discussions (according to the minutes). At least the opposition parties in Brexit accepted that it’s going to happen and have put forward alternative proposals. The EOSFL haven’t really engaged with discussions by the look of and with Big Als summing up.
 
Compromises could be along the lines of that we have a 5 year trial. The winner of the East Juniors plays the winners of the West Juniors with the winner facing winner of play off between EOS/SOS in a one of final and make it a big marketable occasion.
 
That has little impact on the EOSFL as if the West came in that would likely be the scenario anyway would it not?
 
The other option (and I have suggested it before) is to get an independent group together to develop plans with agreement that whatever they come up with is adopted. This takes away a lot of the mistrust that is now on all sides.
 
No option is perfect but we have to try something to improve the non league game in Scotland.
 
Edited to add: the SJFA compromise could be with discipline as it seems a sore point for some EOSFL clubs (and some on here). If that’s a deal breaker by all mean adopt what everyone else is doing.

What are the compromises from the SJFA? As it stands they want to enter with the west and east intact, and with them being being able to keep parts of their disciplinary system and fines.

What have they compromised on?

[superbigal]

The juniors have not needed to compromise up to now to be fair. They have always been told it is a done deal.

Clearly that position may have to change.

 

Long term I expect almagamation in the east as they are talking albeit not yet on that subject.

 

 

[Talbot 1978]

The juniors have not needed to compromise up to now to be fair. They have always been told it is a done deal.
Clearly that position may have to change.
 
Long term I expect almagamation in the east.

So after 1500 odd pages, this is the reality. [emoji23]

[Guest]

Who said it was a done deal? There is a difference between one person at the sfa stating what they want to happen and that desire becoming reality. There is a little thing called paperwork and processes that always derails such potential misuse of power and position :-) 

The sjfa can continue to ask for a unicorn all they wish, but they will inevitably end up with a bike, because the offer of a unicorn no longer exists :-) 

They might get some streamers, reflectors and a bell, but that's is as far as any extras will go. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Guest

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

I haven’t seen anywhere that the LL/HL line has moved. I thought that was one of the EOSFL concerns is it not?

 

Yes but they r not in a position to change it so south of Tay teams if wish to join pyramid should be eosfl 

[Kilbowie Benches]

It’s the Scottish  East of Scotland lopsided pyramid.

Make up spurious reasons to keep all the West clubs out because they’re all too good  and will gatecrash our cosy wee East coast mafia set up.

Its always the same in Scottish football,is it any wonder that the game is dying on its arse.

[pipedreamer]

7 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

It’s the Scottish  East of Scotland lopsided pyramid.

Make up spurious reasons to keep all the West clubs out because they’re all too good  and will gatecrash our cosy wee East coast mafia set up.

Its always the same in Scottish football,is it any wonder that the game is dying on its arse.

To be fair the east clubs were shafted by the west coast mafia in the sjfa for years anyway. The organisation couldn’t give two hoots about the clubs beyond Shotts. 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

It’s the Scottish  East of Scotland lopsided pyramid.

Make up spurious reasons to keep all the West clubs out because they’re all too good  and will gatecrash our cosy wee East coast mafia set up.

Its always the same in Scottish football,is it any wonder that the game is dying on its arse.

The same EoS Mafia that would of let Clydebank in to it.

The same EoS Mafia that would of helped set up an indepedent WoSFL at the same level at Tier 6

The same EoS Mafia that will accept the West Region clubs intact into the pyramid.

The same EoS Mafia that wants the West & East Regions represented at PWG meetings.

The same EoS Mafia that wants West & East Region representation on the Non-Professional Game Board.

Can't really gatecrash something when you're invited to the party

[Kilbowie Benches]

58 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The same EoS Mafia that would of let Clydebank in to it.

The same EoS Mafia that would of helped set up an indepedent WoSFL at the same level at Tier 6

The same EoS Mafia that will accept the West Region clubs intact into the pyramid.

The same EoS Mafia that wants the West & East Regions represented at PWG meetings.

The same EoS Mafia that wants West & East Region representation on the Non-Professional Game Board.

Can't really gatecrash something when you're invited to the party

Mr Baxter asks himself as LL and EoSL secretary for an extension for EoSL clubs without licenses for promotion to the LL and he gives himself it!

The whole set up is an East of Scotland stitch up.

Even one of the nominal “West” clubs plays in Alloa.

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

They put forward an option which was rejected. The EOSFL have put forward no alternatives in the discussions (according to the minutes). At least the opposition parties in Brexit accepted that it’s going to happen and have put forward alternative proposals. The EOSFL haven’t really engaged with discussions by the look of and with Big Als summing up.

 

Compromises could be along the lines of that we have a 5 year trial. The winner of the East Juniors plays the winners of the West Juniors with the winner facing winner of play off between EOS/SOS in a one of final and make it a big marketable occasion.

 

That has little impact on the EOSFL as if the West came in that would likely be the scenario anyway would it not?

 

The other option (and I have suggested it before) is to get an independent group together to develop plans with agreement that whatever they come up with is adopted. This takes away a lot of the mistrust that is now on all sides.

No option is perfect but we have to try something to improve the non league game in Scotland.

Edited to add: the SJFA compromise could be with discipline as it seems a sore point for some EOSFL clubs (and some on here). If that’s a deal breaker by all mean adopt what everyone else is doing.

Until the SFA decides whether or not it will change the Highland/Lowland boundary, neither the Lowland League, nor the East of Scotland League, will accept any junior or amateur clubs into Membership. If, say Lochee Utd obtained a club licence, (entered ?) and won the ERJFA league, and the 'Play-offs' for promotion to  Lowland League, they would (as things stand under existing rules and constitutions) be required to join the Highland League instead.  This would be unworkable. It is also currently impossibl,e as the HFL doesn't recognise (north of) Tayside and Angus clubs, as constituting a "pyramid feeder league" in the north.

To move the boundary, now or in the future, the SFA would also/first  need to secure the agreement of the SPFL clubs. As things stand, forming an integrated North East Junior FA is the only practical way ahead, set up as a Highland feeder league, which would obviously be at tier 6, and (with no SLFL or EoSFL opposition) could be created soon.

 

 

 

[Robert James]

On 01/04/2019 at 21:01, San Starko Rover said:

The EOS aren’t being difficult they’re doing exactly what they should be doing by refusing to allow an overlapping league in at tier 6 which they could lose teams to. The only thing that’s screwing the West Juniors is that they’re trying to negotiate joining as a package with the East Juniors, if the West Juniors applied on their own the EOS would have no problem they even offered in the past to help set up a WOS league. Don’t get why the West Juniors are so attached to the East when they’ve both happily forgotten about the North. Let the West Juniors join this coming season and the East and North can continue to negotiate does it really matter they both join at the same time.

Based on 700+ posts on here, it seems doubtful that many (any ?) West Junior clubs, or supporters/posters, are fighting for the East Juniors. However it appears that this remains a (semi)red line for TJ  & Co.

If I was on the management committee of a progressive West club, I would not see the relevance/importance of seeing my clubs pyramid ambitions, being subject to those of a separate Association/League, in the East (or North). Or am I wrong, and why ?

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

It’s the Scottish  East of Scotland lopsided pyramid.

Make up spurious reasons to keep all the West clubs out because they’re all too good  and will gatecrash our cosy wee East coast mafia set up.

Its always the same in Scottish football,is it any wonder that the game is dying on its arse.

Hi KB

I didn't think the "cosy wee East coast Mafia" was opposed to the WEST juniors joining the pyramid ?   

Surely, the "cwEcM" are much more 'worried' about the Northern Invaders from Angus ?

from  Uncle Bob

(PS   West Junior clubs will enhance the pyramid) 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

7 hours ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Mr Baxter asks himself as LL and EoSL secretary for an extension for EoSL clubs without licenses for promotion to the LL and he gives himself it!

The whole set up is an East of Scotland stitch up.

Even one of the nominal “West” clubs plays in Alloa.

It was the Lowland League board that accepted the extension and the EoS made it on behalf of their members.

And I think most people would find that acceptable since the only reason the last SFA Board meeting was for a funeral. Then in March the SFA seemed more interested in hosting all those international dignitaries and swanning off abroad in their blazers rather than deal with matters closer to home.

Since the "West" is in as you constantly say, i'm not sure what your problem is?

[Cyclizine]

7 hours ago, Robert James said:

It is also currently impossibl,e as the HFL doesn't recognise (north of) Tayside and Angus clubs, as constituting a "pyramid feeder league" in the north.

This is obviously wrong. There is no "pyramid feeder league" to be recognised in the first place. If a licenced club North of Tay applied to the HFL, they would be accepted based on the current rules.

[Sidney Lumet]

8 hours ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Mr Baxter asks himself as LL and EoSL secretary for an extension for EoSL clubs without licenses for promotion to the LL and he gives himself it!

The whole set up is an East of Scotland stitch up.

Even one of the nominal “West” clubs plays in Alloa.

 

53 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It was the Lowland League board that accepted the extension and the EoS made it on behalf of their members.

And I think most people would find that acceptable since the only reason the last SFA Board meeting was for a funeral. Then in March the SFA seemed more interested in hosting all those international dignitaries and swanning off abroad in their blazers rather than deal with matters closer to home.

Since the "West" is in as you constantly say, i'm not sure what your problem is?

I'm sure I've read somewhere in one of these threads that Kilbowie Benches represents Clydebank in an official capacity. If so, his tone and choice of words when discussing the EoSFL and its representatives should be pretty disturbing for fans of his club when you consider that the EoSFL and EoSFA boards have been nothing but accommodating to Clydebank when they were holding joint discussions on the Bankies moving to the EoSFL. To have someone involved in the running of the club constantly and wilfully misunderstand or, indeed, deliberately misrepresent the EoSFL's position on all of this is pretty poor stuff. It's been clearly and concisely set out in this and other threads by several posters that the EoSFL would welcome a west feeder league into the Lowland League and that they, and the Lowland League, only oppose the nonsensical idea of a geographically overlapping feeder league in the east - what is difficult to understand about this is, well, difficult to understand.