glensmad Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, santheman said: There you go Peter, now's your chance to go down in the annals of Junior history by starting the ball rolling. edit to add The thing I hear most at games is if nothings going to change then why go to the trouble in the first place?? For me it would give the clubs more credibility with the general public, and casting of the mostly misunderstood "junior" term. It would make the clubs more marketable by saying they are "semi-professional" and playing in the Scottish football pyramid at whatever level. (I hate the term "non-league" as we do all play in a league). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Pennel Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ginaro said: In future there might not need to be a play-off as the LL could allow automatic east and west promotion. But that's not going to happen until the west is in the pyramid and more clubs are licensed. It's all a bit chicken and egg... Eh ?...anybody asked the SoS league about this bit ?... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 If it’s true that impasse has been reached regarding change for next season, the question arises of how do clubs deal with the broken promise from TJ/SJFA of tier 6 and how that affects their view of future promises of entry, how much longer do they give it. There is a very real possibility west clubs are, at best, 18 months away from access to SFA Licencing and the Pyramid, and at least 2.5 years away from the first west club entering the Lowland League. Meanwhile in the EoS clubs strengthen, get Licenced and move up the Pyramid, whilst the Lowland League ponder a second division which would push the West further down the pecking order. I appreciate that there are different levels of enthusiasm for this in the first place amongst Junior clubs, despite the vote at AGM, but there has to be clubs in the west harbouring ambitions that are fed up waiting, like Clydebank.Think Clydebank will just wait now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Think Clydebank will just wait now. Are they having another EGM to debate it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I think what is stopping this from happening is the SJFA’s apparent refusal to recognise that a different solution is required in the east than in the west. My impression is the EoS would be more than willing to talk about different solutions. No plan on how SJFA integration is going to work has been presented at the PWG, so the EoS, LL etc don’t have anything to agree or disagree with. What exactly the current impasse is I don’t know, it may boil down to alignment of rules and regulations. Maybe until that hurdle is overcome, there’s no point talking structures. Who knows. Either way, the West Region have it in their power at an EGM to decide on their own future as a league. It doesn’t need SJFA approval or agreement in the east.I agree its the clubs in the west that can change it but only if they resign on mass. I reiterate that I think most clubs voted to leave if all clubs were put into the structure at tier 6 together. That means that all current junior clubs won’t move unless that’s achieved. Maybe a statement from the PWG as where we are currently at would remove a lot of the uncertainty. At the moment all we have is a email that seems the have been wrong and a minute of a meeting that only represents one organisations view (if I have missed any out sorry). We need clarity so that clubs can make informed decisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Arthurlie1981 said: I agree its the clubs in the west that can change it but only if they resign on mass. I reiterate that I think most clubs voted to leave if all clubs were put into the structure at tier 6 together. That means that all current junior clubs won’t move unless that’s achieved. Maybe a statement from the PWG as where we are currently at would remove a lot of the uncertainty. At the moment all we have is a email that seems the have been wrong and a minute of a meeting that only represents one organisations view (if I have missed any out sorry). We need clarity so that clubs can make informed decisions. Yip, some clubs want the SJFA to remain and move into the Pyramid as one block, the SJFA want to remain intact, and keep certain individuals in a job. That is the problem, it wont work. Agree, clarity would be beneficial to all but I very much doubt the SFA will provide it, the PWG is just a collection of leagues (plus the SJFA). The Chair is the SFA. What was it you had heard that made you believe that there would be no change for next season, have the SJFA and/of WRJFA updated their members? the EoS minute does paint the picture of slow progress and stalemate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Yip, some clubs want the SJFA to remain and move into the Pyramid as one block, the SJFA want to remain intact, and keep certain individuals in a job. That is the problem, it wont work. Agree, clarity would be beneficial to all but I very much doubt the SFA will provide it, the PWG is just a collection of leagues (plus the SJFA). The Chair is the SFA. What was it you had heard that made you believe that there would be no change for next season, have the SJFA and/of WRJFA updated their members? the EoS minute does paint the picture of slow progress and stalemate.There has been no information provided to clubs and that’s what I have been told has lead them to believe that it will not happen this coming season. That may change if the west change their rules. I would presume the west would have updated their clubs if it was looking likely there would be a resolution to all this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Didn't the West Region basically create 'a new league' last year by virtue of scraping districts and I think a cup or two. So all they seem to be staying for is the Junior Cup against weaker regions and NOT wanting to be in the pyramid.the ayrshire and central league cups got scrapped. the ayrshire & central sectional cups got merged into a new sectional cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Didn't the West Region basically create 'a new league' last year by virtue of scraping districts and I think a cup or two. So all they seem to be staying for is the Junior Cup against weaker regions and NOT wanting to be in the pyramid. I think thats a pretty simplistic view which might be true for some clubs but not all. As I said earlier some clubs will be waiting to see what other clubs do for some it will come down to finance and not wanting to take a risk and ending up in financial trouble. The junior cup is an issue that can be dealt with later what needs to happen now is clubs need to know what is happening for next season and that will allow for clubs to make their own decisions. All junior clubs officially know at the moment (as I understand) is that they are to join at tier 6 as Ian Maxwell’s email said until a further update is provided we really are going around in circles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said: I think thats a pretty simplistic view which might be true for some clubs but not all. As I said earlier some clubs will be waiting to see what other clubs do for some it will come down to finance and not wanting to take a risk and ending up in financial trouble. The junior cup is an issue that can be dealt with later what needs to happen now is clubs need to know what is happening for next season and that will allow for clubs to make their own decisions. All junior clubs officially know at the moment (as I understand) is that they are to join at tier 6 as Ian Maxwell’s email said until a further update is provided we really are going around in circles. Simplistic maybe, but the West Region has just gone through a greater upheaval than being a pyramid league would be. The rest of the SJFA is weaker than ever before. East Region already lost a host of clubs with more potentially following, North Region has never been too strong and depending on how the SPFL playoff goes could end up seeing Banks o'Dee leave this summer to the Highland League. So if the story has gone from certain Tier 6 2019-20 to maybe another year down the line with no WoSL, then the only thing clubs are being tied down by is the Junior Cup and not wanting to being in the SFA pyramid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, santheman said: edit to add The thing I hear most at games is if nothings going to change then why go to the trouble in the first place?? Because you avoid a situation like in the east where teams - especially the top teams prevented from gaining promotion to the LL, or those who want a licence - move to a breakaway league? 13 minutes ago, Black Pennel said: Eh ?...anybody asked the SoS league about this bit ?... The SOS is a west league so if they want access to the LL they can have a play-off against the West Premiership/WOS winners. No reason why a weaker 16 team league should be on the same level as a 63 team west setup or up to 60 team east league. However, do any of the SOS teams actually want to be promoted to the LL? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ginaro said: However, do any of the SOS teams actually want to be promoted to the LL? Keep in mind the landscape when Threave Rovers accepted relegation. Need to rebuild and probably fancied their chances of keeping against the likes of Leith Athletic and LTHV in the EoS/SoS Playoff. So long term they might think they can back up there. Bonnyton Thistle probably have very long term aims for getting as high as they can get. And while Dalbeattie are a current Lowland League side, they probably want to avoid getting relegated back to the SoS and lose their standing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Simplistic maybe, but the West Region has just gone through a greater upheaval than being a pyramid league would be. The rest of the SJFA is weaker than ever before. East Region already lost a host of clubs with more potentially following, North Region has never been too strong and depending on how the SPFL playoff goes could end up seeing Banks o'Dee leave this summer to the Highland League. So if the story has gone from certain Tier 6 2019-20 to maybe another year down the line with no WoSL, then the only thing clubs are being tied down by is the Junior Cup and not wanting to being in the SFA pyramid. Some clubs may want to stay because ‘its the way it’s always been’ some maybe because they have no ambition to reach the top and some because it could be a huge financial risk. I think the risk is worth it but some may not. Also the junior cup has been had more west success for several years even when the east was at full strength!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vollyman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 The SFA have changed the goalposts with the new floodlight rules plus the LL are now talking about a LL2. This would mean junior clubs without a licence could only enter the pyramid at tier 7. Many clubs will find it difficult to raise the finance to enable them to gain a licence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said: Some clubs may want to stay because ‘its the way it’s always been’ some maybe because they have no ambition to reach the top and some because it could be a huge financial risk. 2/3 amounts to not wanting to be in the pyramid. The huge financial risk is a valid reason against a split in the membership, but doesn't explain why the West Region as a whole needs to remain in the SJFA. 1 hour ago, Arthurlie1981 said: Also the junior cup has been had more west success for several years even when the east was at full strength!! I know that's why i'm wondering why it holds the same attraction in a further watered down version. Edited January 30, 2019 by FairWeatherFan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Vollyman said: The SFA have changed the goalposts with the new floodlight rules plus the LL are now talking about a LL2. This would mean junior clubs without a licence could only enter the pyramid at tier 7. Many clubs will find it difficult to raise the finance to enable them to gain a licence. Ull be entering at tier 7 anyway as you'll be coming in below us if your coming in 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Gold Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Feck your pyramid. According to Hearts were in the top tier already 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 The SFA have changed the goalposts with the new floodlight rules plus the LL are now talking about a LL2. This would mean junior clubs without a licence could only enter the pyramid at tier 7. Many clubs will find it difficult to raise the finance to enable them to gain a licence.A LL2 may not necessarily require a license. Pretty sure their wouldn't even be enough licensed clubs from the EOS (assuming all applicants get a license) to form a 16 team LL2 in a scenario where PWG negotiations fail & thus no west league. This is why I dont foresee a LL2 needing a license. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I know that's why i'm wondering why it holds the same attraction in a further watered down version.I agree. I think it would be better to move over lock stock but other clubs obviously don’t agree.As I said earlier we need clarification if we are to get any move forward. Most clubs will be waiting for an announcement to let them know what is happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 have the sjfa ever upated clubs on the PWG process since that Maxwell email in October? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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