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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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Just now, GNU_Linux said:
9 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:
It’s a lot further on than  preliminary...

if thats the case why would the EOS put out a memo to it's members stating the PWG had hit a stalemate? Keep in mind PWG meetings started in September or October & things seems not to have moved much at all. With this is mind I fail to see how things could be close to completion at all.

They obviously have for the SFA to be aligning discipline etc with the SJFA.

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2 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Difference being that the SJFA don’t need to do it unless they’re joining the pyramid.

Can't enter the pyramid unless compliant with SFA rules.

If they don't enter more clubs leave the SJFA.

So there is a need. But in doing so it doesn't resolve the manner in which the SJFA enters.

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They obviously have for the SFA to be aligning discipline etc with the SJFA.
The SJFA want in as a whole. The EOS is opposed to ERJFA entry & has veto over such entry. This is why I cant see things being at the 'in at tier 6' stage thats been touted since the Maxwell email from October.
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16 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:
22 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:
They obviously have for the SFA to be aligning discipline etc with the SJFA.

The SJFA want in as a whole. The EOS is opposed to ERJFA entry & has veto over such entry. This is why I cant see things being at the 'in at tier 6' stage thats been touted since the Maxwell email from October.

Things are moving along nonetheless.

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23 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Renfrew’s secretary Alan McGraw:

“It would cost a lot of money getting seats in it and we thought it was a lot of travelling, so we would need to get more buses.”

Nope. Don't need seats, wouldn't be more travel.

Burgh’s secretary Ricky Cantwell:

“It’s totally unacceptable. There is the financial aspect as well, but a lot do not have any grounds whatsoever."

The LL has a few groundsharers, but so? So do Clydebank, Rob Roy, any others? 

"All junior clubs have enclosed grounds"

Is Carluke enclosed? It wasn't last time I went. Many North Juniors are only theoretically enclosed.

“We have our own dressing rooms, toilets, but half of these teams have none of that."

Wha..? Nurse!

“Another thing is being asked is floodlights"

Aye, at Tier 5. So nothing to trouble Burgh then.

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15 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Genuine question whats the origin of the 150k toilets shite? (nae pun intended)

I first heard it at an East Region meeting around 2012/13 at Inverkeithing High School where we ended up in the canteen as the hall had already been booked by a knitting class or something, in which TJ was in attendance to talk (or rather slag) Lowland League/Pyramid, one particular club representative claimed it would cost £150k to put in new toilets, a guy next to me murmured "are they fucking gold plated".    There were other outlandish claims of crippling financial investments that clubs would have to make to join the Lowland League, and this was mostly lapped up which resulted in very few calls to entertain the idea.

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4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I first heard it at an East Region meeting around 2012/13 at Inverkeithing High School where we ended up in the canteen as the hall had already been booked by a knitting class or something, in which TJ was in attendance to talk (or rather slag) Lowland League/Pyramid, one particular club representative claimed it would cost £150k to put in new toilets, a guy next to me murmured "are they fucking gold plated".    There were other outlandish claims of crippling financial investments that clubs would have to make to join the Lowland League, and this was mostly lapped up which resulted in very few calls to entertain the idea.

That was before clubs left!

TJ has seen sense and clubs have voted to join the pyramid since then. 

The way the LL was set up was a joke and there was no way Junior clubs were wanted.Is it any wonder that Junior clubs were a bit sceptical of the pyramid idea?

Its too simplistic to just blame TJ for this whole mess as there is blame on all sides.

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22 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I first heard it at an East Region meeting around 2012/13 at Inverkeithing High School where we ended up in the canteen as the hall had already been booked by a knitting class or something, in which TJ was in attendance to talk (or rather slag) Lowland League/Pyramid, one particular club representative claimed it would cost £150k to put in new toilets, a guy next to me murmured "are they fucking gold plated".    There were other outlandish claims of crippling financial investments that clubs would have to make to join the Lowland League, and this was mostly lapped up which resulted in very few calls to entertain the idea.

Bit ironic all these East Region meetings in Inverkeithing, then the local team goes and joins the EOS :lol:

Also that Johnstone Burgh secretary talking about unenclosed grounds and lack of facilities seems to have got the pyramid mixed up with the amateurs.

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3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

That was before clubs left!

TJ has seen sense and clubs have voted to join the pyramid since then. 

The way the LL was set up was a joke and there was no way Junior clubs were wanted.Is it any wonder that Junior clubs were a bit sceptical of the pyramid idea?

Its too simplistic to just blame TJ for this whole mess as there is blame on all sides.

Surely it is pointless and time consuming to reiterate the history of the formation of the Lowland League.  Surely it encourages division, and deadlock.

With February almost here, there is still time for West juniors to join the pyramid, but only if there is an SJFA recognition that this is a very separate matter from the situation in both the East and North Regions.  Hopefully the West Region will realise this, and find an acceptable solution for the future of its own region's clubs (only).  Do you agree with my view ?

As a separate enquiry,  what is your personal "My Team" ,  as "Kilbowie Benches" suggests Clydebank, which given your views, seems unlikely ?

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That was before clubs left! TJ has seen sense and clubs have voted to join the pyramid since then. 

The way the LL was set up was a joke and there was no way Junior clubs were wanted.Is it any wonder that Junior clubs were a bit sceptical of the pyramid idea?

Its too simplistic to just blame TJ for this whole mess as there is blame on all sides.

 

 

You’re right there’s blame on all sides as the Pyramid should have been sorted better from the beginning but to say the Junior clubs were not wanted is simply untrue, I remember at the time the great Junior conspiracy was the whole thing was a ploy to get Spartans in the league. Where are Spartans now?

 

The Juniors were offered to join at the beginning and due to the poor short notice setup correctly decided against it as the risk for them was far greater. After it was formed and working there were still 4 places and the Lowland league were open for applications how many Juniors applied and were refused?

 

TJ was pitching project fear of £150K toilets and Tuesdays to Elgin and then Juniors should join as one at be tier 5 and a separate feeder (sounds familiar to the current pitch) it took Kelty to see through the BS and break ranks to change the SJFA thinking and the East floodgate opened thanks to Dalkeith and Blackburn, notice the EoS accepted all applicants.

 

TJ is still pitching the same all in under the SJFA but now it’s tier 6, if it turns out to be BS and EoS do have a veto who’ll break ranks first in the West? You can blame the EoS for the initial short notice setup but they’ve been open to applications and have accepted several teams including yours. What’s holding everything up now is this SJFA all in and still SJFA nonsense, if you join the pyramid you’re a senior club. the WRJFA members who want in need to form a WoS league (note the anti juniors EoS have offered to help with it) and the Tayside teams need to accept they’re Highland League area.

 

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10 hours ago, GordonS said:

Renfrew’s secretary Alan McGraw:

“It would cost a lot of money getting seats in it and we thought it was a lot of travelling, so we would need to get more buses.”

Nope. Don't need seats, wouldn't be more travel.

Burgh’s secretary Ricky Cantwell:

“It’s totally unacceptable. There is the financial aspect as well, but a lot do not have any grounds whatsoever."

The LL has a few groundsharers, but so? So do Clydebank, Rob Roy, any others? 

"All junior clubs have enclosed grounds"

Is Carluke enclosed? It wasn't last time I went. Many North Juniors are only theoretically enclosed.

“We have our own dressing rooms, toilets, but half of these teams have none of that."

Wha..? Nurse!

“Another thing is being asked is floodlights"

Aye, at Tier 5. So nothing to trouble Burgh then.

Another good one: "He said: “The reason we voted against joining is we just got a new ground built a couple of years ago and it does not fit the criteria". What criteria? Their ground would without any doubt be accepted in the pyramid. No, they won't get an SFA license unless more work gets done, but they are perfectly entitled to not bother with that if they don't want it / can't afford it (although if teams like Burntisland Shipyard can afford it, I think the vast majority of juniors should be able to!). It's not like they will be close to promotion to the LL any time soon.

“Another thing is being asked is floodlights, which cost in the region of a six figure sum, and there is no funding for it." Again, only needed for licensing so no obligation to comply.

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There is a huge amount of misconceptions out there, and the worrying thing is that a lot of the people who make the decisions at club level have these misconceptions.

I keep saying it, absolutely nothing will change for almost every club in the juniors if they join the pyramid. There is nothing to fear. The only change will be if you are good enough to win what is currently the top league in your region and you wish to get promotion to the Lowland League, only at that point will licensing requirements kick in.

Currently every junior team in Scotland is compliant for entry at tier 6 and below, and the people running the clubs need to get that clear in their heads.

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3 minutes ago, glensmad said:

There is a huge amount of misconceptions out there, and the worrying thing is that a lot of the people who make the decisions at club level have these misconceptions.

I keep saying it, absolutely nothing will change for almost every club in the juniors if they join the pyramid. There is nothing to fear. The only change will be if you are good enough to win what is currently the top league in your region and you wish to get promotion to the Lowland League, only at that point will licensing requirements kick in.

Currently every junior team in Scotland is compliant for entry at tier 6 and below, and the people running the clubs need to get that clear in their heads.

The problem is this information is not being disseminated to clubs, the SJFA upto this point had absolutely no interest in correcting these misconceptions as it suited them, in fact they propagated most of them as per my previous post.  Some people and clubs still think this way despite the SJFA turning 180 degrees and heading in the opposite direction.

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29 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The problem is this information is not being disseminated to clubs, the SJFA upto this point had absolutely no interest in correcting these misconceptions as it suited them, in fact they propagated most of them as per my previous post.  Some people and clubs still think this way despite the SJFA turning 180 degrees and heading in the opposite direction.

It’s turned 180 degrees because the clubs voted for it to do so!

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