Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Pollok reporting that the 19/20 Junior Cup has been cancelled: https://www.pollokfc.com/2021/03/05/19-20-junior-cup-officially-cancelled/

There won't be a 20/21 edition - who knows if there will ever be another one in the future?

I'd imagine there will be a 2021-22 competition. What that will look like nobody knows.

Might be beneficial to do the draw for the First and Second rounds at the same time and early on. Since that would aid sorting out the fixture lists.

[Marten]

I would imagine that we'll be able to play a fairly normal season for 2021/22. Whether or not the WOS teams will actually be able to take part is a second, they will have plenty of league games already, combined with other cups.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, Marten said:

I would imagine that we'll be able to play a fairly normal season for 2021/22. Whether or not the WOS teams will actually be able to take part is a second, they will have plenty of league games already, combined with other cups.

People thought that we would be fine from february onwards and we are in a worse state than ever

[Pyramidic]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'd imagine there will be a 2021-22 competition. What that will look like nobody knows.

Might be beneficial to do the draw for the First and Second rounds at the same time and early on. Since that would aid sorting out the fixture lists.

Perhaps time for a total rethink and revamp. One option would be to play it as a Summer competition that overlaps the traditional seasons. Perhaps there is scope to play the Junior Cup from May to August (with a break in June). With a fixed date arranged for the final in early August.

In my view any attempt to run the competition using the traditional format would end up in tears one way or the other e.g. clubs fielding Development Squads to fulfil fixtures.

[FairWeatherFan]

50 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Perhaps time for a total rethink and revamp. One option would be to play it as a Summer competition that overlaps the traditional seasons. Perhaps there is scope to play the Junior Cup from May to August (with a break in June). With a fixed date arranged for the final in early August.

In my view any attempt to run the competition using the traditional format would end up in tears one way or the other e.g. clubs fielding Development Squads to fulfil fixtures.

I think we've seen a bit of fuss over taking a competition into a second season due to players moving on etc. Don't think that'd be high on the agenda.

It can certainly be carried out within the pyramid. It's just going to take some adjustments to make it work. If the EoS can handle Scottish, SCC, East Qualifying, League Cups for most of their top teams. Then the WoS can manage Scottish, SCC, Junior, and League Cup.

Although this is where competing ideas come in. A West equivalent of the Alex Jack Cup got a mention in the run up to its creation as a concept. Certainly if the South & East Cup Winners' Shield still has a qualifying spot the WoSFL would want an entry point for its teams you would think. Elsewhere you've got the new SJFA CEO with ideas of opening up the Junior Cup.

[DiegoDiego]

People thought that we would be fine from february onwards and we are in a worse state than ever

That's just not true in the slightest though, is it?

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

4 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

People thought that we would be fine from february onwards and we are in a worse state than ever

That's just not true in the slightest though, is it?

Well it is. We had more ppl in hospitals only reason the number in icu wasnt higher was because most of the ppl who would likely need it were sadly nonlonger with us. 

I dont deny we are on our way forward but at what cost and as I said we thought that last summer

[DiegoDiego]

Well it is. We had more ppl in hospitals only reason the number in icu wasnt higher was because most of the ppl who would likely need it were sadly nonlonger with us. 
I dont deny we are on our way forward but at what cost and as I said we thought that last summer

We are clearly in a better state now than we have been at any point in the winter and much of the autumn. We're most certainly not in a worse state than ever like you said.

[AlanCamelonfan]

21 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

2 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Well it is. We had more ppl in hospitals only reason the number in icu wasnt higher was because most of the ppl who would likely need it were sadly nonlonger with us. 
I dont deny we are on our way forward but at what cost and as I said we thought that last summer

We are clearly in a better state now than we have been at any point in the winter and much of the autumn. We're most certainly not in a worse state than ever like you said.

Autumn and most of winter Falkirk wasnt in lockdown. Maybe where u r was I dont know. So I'll stick with what I said

[Marten]

18 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

People thought that we would be fine from february onwards and we are in a worse state than ever

I wouldn't say worse state then ever, but not a great state. However, I think there is more reason for optimism now with vaccination going on.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Marten

[FairWeatherFan]

With the news of the WoSFL and EoSFL agreeing a boundary, you might start to hear about the more Southern members of the Junior leagues apply to the EoSFL. Bathgate Thistle being the first to come out publicly.

I saw some plans from the new SJFA CEO trying to reinvigorate the Junior Cup. The first thing they're going to have to do is open up SJFA membership to clubs that don't compete in a Junior league.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

With the news of the WoSFL and EoSFL agreeing a boundary, you might start to hear about the more Southern members of the Junior leagues apply to the EoSFL. Bathgate Thistle being the first to come out publicly.

I saw some plans from the new SJFA CEO trying to reinvigorate the Junior Cup. The first thing they're going to have to do is open up SJFA membership to clubs that don't compete in a Junior league.

It's already open for WOS clubs obviously, it would make sense to extend it to EOS clubs as well. At least the WL clubs can keep playing Junior Cup that way.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, Marten said:

It's already open for WOS clubs obviously, it would make sense to extend it to EOS clubs as well. At least the WL clubs can keep playing Junior Cup that way.

In a typical year the EoSFL AGM would be before the SJFA AGM. So going by previous new clubs would likely be included in Qualifying Cup, League Cup, King Cup, and Alex Jack Cup draws with the SCC also in there. That's quite a commitment and some of these clubs will be targeting SFA membership.

So would a new EoSFL club decide they're happy to lose SJFA membership, since they've got that ahead of them before the SJFA even have the chance to change the rules.

[AlanCamelonfan]

So with west lothian finally joining the party. Is it worth sjfa continuing as really it's just tayside and north now and a romantic notion about a cup.

I think they should just retire the organisation before it loses anymore credibility that it had.

[Burnieman]

On 09/03/2021 at 16:14, AlanCamelonfan said:

So with west lothian finally joining the party. Is it worth sjfa continuing as really it's just tayside and north now and a romantic notion about a cup.

I think they should just retire the organisation before it loses anymore credibility that it had.

Wind up the SJFA, retire the Cup, and distribute their assets amongst all remaining members to help with licencing.

[8MileBU]

On 09/03/2021 at 16:14, AlanCamelonfan said:

So with west lothian finally joining the party. Is it worth sjfa continuing as really it's just tayside and north now and a romantic notion about a cup.

I think they should just retire the organisation before it loses anymore credibility that it had.

 

4 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Wind up the SJFA, retire the Cup, and distribute their assets amongst all remaining members to help with licencing.

Hear hear.

The SJFA are like that episode of South Park where Randy Marsh buys a  Blockbuster Video store and tries to keep it open.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

On 12/03/2021 at 19:26, Burnieman said:

Wind up the SJFA, retire the Cup, and distribute their assets amongst all remaining members to help with licencing.

I agree with everything except for retiring the cup.

I’d love for there to be a place for the old trophy. 
 

it will take time but you could argue the qualifying cups have been superseded by licensing. Why not merge the three cups for an all in non league cup? What a spectacle it would be and the competition would match the history.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

I agree with everything except for retiring the cup.

I’d love for there to be a place for the old trophy. 
 

it will take time but you could argue the qualifying cups have been superseded by licensing. Why not merge the three cups for an all in non league cup? What a spectacle it would be and the competition would match the history.

The actual old trophy was retired not that long ago. What's used now is just a replica. 

What 3 cups are we talking about? Junior, South Challenge, and? 

[LongTimeLurker]

8 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

I agree with everything except for retiring the cup.

I’d love for there to be a place for the old trophy....

No problem whatsoever with the idea of the SJFA being wound up at this point but discarding a cup competition that can still draw 5000+ to finals and garner significant national media attention because of petty blazer politics would be extremely foolish in marketing terms.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

I agree with everything except for retiring the cup.

I’d love for there to be a place for the old trophy. 
 

it will take time but you could argue the qualifying cups have been superseded by licensing. Why not merge the three cups for an all in non league cup? What a spectacle it would be and the competition would match the history.

I think we have to move on.   There is very little interest from the Highland clubs in an all-in cup out with the Scottish Cup and you can understand why, the North Juniors have always been a bit non-plussed about it.  That may change if the competition didn't cost clubs money like the Junior Cup did if you drew a north club (and vice versa).

That said, when things settle down and everyone is inside the pyramid, then perhaps the South Challenge Cup could be re-invented, given a better name (SFA Trophy?) and finals played at Hampden given the SFA now owns the place.  As has been said before, could be part of a non-league finals day with the Scottish Amateur Cup.  I'm sure in time it will be looked at.