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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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I could foresee some sort of buffer region between HL/LL  that clubs can formally opt into / out of a pathway. Brechin plainly want to go LL. Montrose Roselea have gone north, despite being marginally south of Brechin Vics. There are going to be differing views.

Scotland's geography doesn't lend itself to easily and evenly split N/S leagues.

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38 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Scotland's geography doesn't lend itself to easily and evenly split N/S leagues.

Either does England with their National Leagues North and South but their clubs seem to get on with it with no song and dance...

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12 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

For those interested in the supposed "Tayside question", the Lowland League have a vote on the boundary between the Lowland and Highland leagues at their upcoming AGM.

I'd imagine after Brechin's shenanigans the answer will be GTF in no uncertain terms. Why would they vote to have a longer away trip while being offered zero in return?

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Just now, welshbairn said:

I'd imagine after Brechin's shenanigans the answer will be GTF in no uncertain terms. Why would they vote to have a longer away trip while being offered zero in return?

Kind of the impression you got in the interview, that the recent goings on may have negatively impacted the chances of it passing. But it was stressed its a membership vote and up to them to decide.

I'm hoping there would be 9 team regardless that would vote against a change to boundary. I mean do Dalbeattie, Gretna, Gala and VoL really want to take potential trips to Angus? Hopefully not. The only other geographic outlier would be Berwick, who probably wouldn't mind since to them they're old rivals.

Does provide a decent amount of clarity since the AGM is likely to be in the next month. Allows everyone to focus on what's next in the pyramid.

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20 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Either does England with their National Leagues North and South but their clubs seem to get on with it with no song and dance...

The north/south divide is actually a big issue there with the pyramid drifting South over time.

It's a bigger problem in Scotland than England as such a huge amount of the population is in the central belt but the north is still an issue in England too.

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I personally like the suggestions of a "midland league". A league encompassing Fife, Perthshire, Dundee and Angus would be a good one, but I don't think clubs should be forced to move against their will. We can get started with a league for the Tayside area, which effectively already exists. If the boundary gets moved, it would feed into the LL (I do now understand the arguments why Tayside clubs prefer being in the LL area, but I won't get into the politics of all that in my post now). There is a decent chance that Perthshire teams would choose to move across anyway from a travel perspective. If they do and are tier 6, they should be accommodated at tier 6 in the "Midland League" imo.

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6 minutes ago, Marten said:

I personally like the suggestions of a "midland league". A league encompassing Fife, Perthshire, Dundee and Angus would be a good one, but I don't think clubs should be forced to move against their will. We can get started with a league for the Tayside area, which effectively already exists. If the boundary gets moved, it would feed into the LL (I do now understand the arguments why Tayside clubs prefer being in the LL area, but I won't get into the politics of all that in my post now). There is a decent chance that Perthshire teams would choose to move across anyway from a travel perspective. If they do and are tier 6, they should be accommodated at tier 6 in the "Midland League" imo.

Don't see a "midland" league happening anymore. Or even a "Tayside league" now. To make a Midland league work you'd be ripping up the EoSFL as all the traditional Fife clubs are now in the EoSFL. So are a chunk of the Perthsire clubs.

Then it comes down to why would the pyramid leagues accept shortening their odds of getting into the Lowland League for 15 clubs? Because that's all it is now with Luncarty in the EoSFL. Tayport and Scone would be happily accepted into the EoSFL.

Tayside can basically become the North Division at the lowest tier and the handful of clubs that played at the old East Super & Premier level should be able to rise pretty quickly. Since by comparison there's no more Kelty, Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness taking up spots further up the East leagues.

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4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Don't see a "midland" league happening anymore. Or even a "Tayside league" now. To make a Midland league work you'd be ripping up the EoSFL as all the traditional Fife clubs are now in the EoSFL. So are a chunk of the Perthsire clubs.

Then it comes down to why would the pyramid leagues accept shortening their odds of getting into the Lowland League for 15 clubs? Because that's all it is now with Luncarty in the EoSFL. Tayport and Scone would be happily accepted into the EoSFL.

Tayside can basically become the North Division at the lowest tier and the handful of clubs that played at the old East Super & Premier level should be able to rise pretty quickly. Since by comparison there's no more Kelty, Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness taking up spots further up the East leagues.

I don't think a "Midland" or "Tayside" league has much of a chance existing in the LL area now.  The LL went through a lot of pain to set-up the WoSFL and now have three feeders, I think they'd probably like to see that reduce to two over time with the SoS operating at a more appropiate level, rather than adding a fourth (small) feeder.

It sounds like the shenanigans with the SPFL will likely see the HL/LL border move rejected by LL members if they are getting zero back in return.

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Think Fife would need to be split at around Glenrothes because large portions of it gravitate more towards Edinburgh than Dundee. The pressure from Brechin and the other Angus clubs for a boundary shift is unlikely to stop, so there's a fair to middling chance that a Midlands tier 6 LL feeder could happen.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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11 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I don't think a "Midland" or "Tayside" league has much of a chance existing in the LL area now.  The LL went through a lot of pain to set-up the WoSFL and now have three feeders, I think they'd probably like to see that reduce to two over time with the SoS operating at a more appropiate level, rather than adding a fourth (small) feeder.

It sounds like the shenanigans with the SPFL will likely see the HL/LL border move rejected by LL members if they are getting zero back in return.

There's just no need for it now. All of Fife (not counting Tayport since they don't seem to count themselves), Jeanfield, Kinnoull, and Luncarty are all in the EoSFL. You could maybe get away with it when both West and Tayside were trying to negotiate their entry but not now.

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17 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Lochee to Wick
4 h 33 min (235.7 mi) via A9

Lochee to Dalbeattie
2 h 55 min (164.2 mi) via M90

Love to see Lochee Utd playing at Tier 5 north or south!

I'm sorry, but if clubs aspire to play in the regional step below the national league structure, they need to be prepared to travel. If they don't want to do this, then they stay at Tier 6 or below or stay outwith the pyramid.

Edited by Cyclizine

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6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There's just no need for it now. All of Fife (not counting Tayport since they don't seem to count themselves), Jeanfield, Kinnoull, and Luncarty are all in the EoSFL. You could maybe get away with it when both West and Tayside were trying to negotiate their entry but not now.

The best thing they could do now, whilst talks are ongoing between HL and NRJFA, is to get involved with that.

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5 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The best thing they could do now, whilst talks are ongoing between HL and NRJFA, is to get involved with that.

You would think. Even then in the podcast that had all 3 regions represented, the interim head of the North Region had said they'd met 3-4 times already. Yet are no further forward 🤣

Can understand not wanting to be part of it if that's the case.

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1 hour ago, Spyro said:

Either does England with their National Leagues North and South but their clubs seem to get on with it with no song and dance...

Teams swap between leagues down there.

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Just now, cmontheloknow said:

Teams swap between leagues down there.

Yep. Going down that route will probably end up with a border going through Paisley...

There's been a conscious decision in Scotland to have a hard North/South boundary where you're one side or the other, full stop. This obviously means you end up with variable numbers on either side.

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17 hours ago, gogsy said:

Better get some floodlights and some decent standing area for the three sides of the ground that are grass banking, are the sleepers on the away dug out side still rotting away?

Casting aspersions on my press box?

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1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

Yep. Going down that route will probably end up with a border going through Paisley...

There's been a conscious decision in Scotland to have a hard North/South boundary where you're one side or the other, full stop. This obviously means you end up with variable numbers on either side.

The variable numbers I have zero issue with - but there are clubs in the Tayside area who are already split as to their preferred path - Brechin City / Montrose Roselea as examples.

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Much has been made on various P&B threads about the imbalance between the  areas covered by the Highland and Lowland Leagues.

The idea of taking clubs out of the Highland zone and placing them into the Lowland zone only weakens the Highland zone further and increases the imbalance which posters flag up. Don't they see that?

There is an imbalance because of the geography and the geography doesn't change. However, the road transport infrastructure has changed in the Highland zone e.g. Aberdeen by-pass, and is continuing to change, with improvements to the Aberdeen to Inverness road. Travel times have and will continue to improve i.e. journey times will reduce further.

There is talk e.g. Brechin City not wishing to be part of the Highland zone. Don't they understand that, if they end up bottom of the SPFL2, in some time ahead, then they will be faced with a play-off and, if they lose it, they go down to Tier 5. If they were playing in the Highland League they would have a greatly enhanced chance of winning that league and being in the play-off for a return to SPFL2. If they went into the Lowland League they wouldn't find it that easy to even stay in that league - especially as more clubs are promoted from the EoS and WoS.

It has been claimed that Brechin City's current crop of players are from the Lowland zone area. That's fine. That's their choice. However, it doesn't seem to have been a good choice does it? Bottom of SPFL2 is not a good result.

There-again other clubs from the Highland zone also have players who are based in the Lowland zone e.g. Elgin City. Maybe they should head for the Lowland League if they are relegated whilst fielding a bunch of Lowland zone players? 

 

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2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Teams swap between leagues down there.

In England football is dominated, at non-league levels, by clubs and leagues from the south and the midlands where the roads transport system is excellent. There is little difficulty getting to and from anywhere. People from such areas have no idea that elsewhere in England or, indeed, the rest of the UK the road system is much poorer and that makes it harder for clubs from other areas to travel the same distances which the south/midland clubs take for granted. That is why Gloucester City and Bishop's Stortford have been put into northern leagues with journeys right up into the north-east - which, of course, is a complete nonsense.

It is similar to the people and clubs from central Scotland who are used to getting around the Central Belt easily and cannot understand the difficulties faced by clubs from outside the Central Belt.

It's not the fault of the South/Midland English or the Central Belters in Scotland but many of them don't get it - and, in a sense, why should they care!

Edited by Dev
.

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2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Teams swap between leagues down there.

I’m not suggesting we copy them, I’m just saying that the travel in the North section is considerably more than travelling from Dundee to Morayshire (using this area as an average to the whole area, although the majority of the games will be around Aberdeen)

Edited by Spyro

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