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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

But, even then, it's swings and roundabouts. There aren't many clubs you can foresee dropping from the SPFL from North of the Tay in the near future. Brechin are in trouble but Elgin aren't and, past them, who's next? Forfar? Cove? Peterhead?

On that front the difference between League One and League Two for part time clubs is incredibly small. We've seen Cowdenbeath and Brechin City bomb right down the divisions from the Championship to bottom of League Two in consecutive seasons. Clyde as well just before the creation of the SPFL. I know there have been others like Dumbarton in the 90s.

For as well as Montrose, Forfar and Peterhead are doing. I'm sure they're glad to have a division as a buffer right now. Peterhead and Forfar especially as they could have ended up in League Two if their seasons had ended badly.

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34 minutes ago, honestly united said:

Tayside would be much better starting their own league, on a par with the North juniors feeding into the HFL. give it a few years and once promotion relegation starts to kick in the HFL will become very Aberdeen centric to start with and over time East coast centric (ie Aberdeen / Dundee / Angus) 

The all time North Super League standings:

image.png.1867931fa22e0fbcd1318cb92fdd739d.png

(a)  formerly Wilson's XI, Hillhead, Newburgh Thistle
(b) clubs merged to form Stoneywood Parkvale
*Sunnybank 9 pts deducted
* Bridge of Don Thistle 4pts deducted
* Banchory St Ternan 8 pts deducted
* Hall Russ United 2 pts awarded
* FC Stoneywood 3pts awarded, 4pts deducted

Then since PPG is all the rage right now with defunct teams removed you've got:

image.png.5ccd299a53ed529290057e92de8cd1c4.png

Top 8 teams on PPG are from the City of Aberdeen or from south of it Stonehaven & Montrose Roselea. If the North Region finally sorts itself  and gets into the pyramid. It will definitely skew the Highland League further into a Grampian/Northeast league.

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Seems sensible for the Tayside clubs to be part of their own league in the future,there are always journeys which stand out due to clubs geography. All dependant if  the clubs wish to progress to becoming apart of a feeder league to the HL  etc, would give them something to aim, plan for, regarding grounds criteria. Think the other point is that now, some clubs won't really be a loss to the spfl, your time is up ! 

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I could foresee some sort of buffer region between HL/LL  that clubs can formally opt into / out of a pathway. Brechin plainly want to go LL. Montrose Roselea have gone north, despite being marginally south of Brechin Vics. There are going to be differing views.

Scotland's geography doesn't lend itself to easily and evenly split N/S leagues.

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38 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Scotland's geography doesn't lend itself to easily and evenly split N/S leagues.

Either does England with their National Leagues North and South but their clubs seem to get on with it with no song and dance...

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12 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

For those interested in the supposed "Tayside question", the Lowland League have a vote on the boundary between the Lowland and Highland leagues at their upcoming AGM.

I'd imagine after Brechin's shenanigans the answer will be GTF in no uncertain terms. Why would they vote to have a longer away trip while being offered zero in return?

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Just now, welshbairn said:

I'd imagine after Brechin's shenanigans the answer will be GTF in no uncertain terms. Why would they vote to have a longer away trip while being offered zero in return?

Kind of the impression you got in the interview, that the recent goings on may have negatively impacted the chances of it passing. But it was stressed its a membership vote and up to them to decide.

I'm hoping there would be 9 team regardless that would vote against a change to boundary. I mean do Dalbeattie, Gretna, Gala and VoL really want to take potential trips to Angus? Hopefully not. The only other geographic outlier would be Berwick, who probably wouldn't mind since to them they're old rivals.

Does provide a decent amount of clarity since the AGM is likely to be in the next month. Allows everyone to focus on what's next in the pyramid.

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20 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Either does England with their National Leagues North and South but their clubs seem to get on with it with no song and dance...

The north/south divide is actually a big issue there with the pyramid drifting South over time.

It's a bigger problem in Scotland than England as such a huge amount of the population is in the central belt but the north is still an issue in England too.

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I personally like the suggestions of a "midland league". A league encompassing Fife, Perthshire, Dundee and Angus would be a good one, but I don't think clubs should be forced to move against their will. We can get started with a league for the Tayside area, which effectively already exists. If the boundary gets moved, it would feed into the LL (I do now understand the arguments why Tayside clubs prefer being in the LL area, but I won't get into the politics of all that in my post now). There is a decent chance that Perthshire teams would choose to move across anyway from a travel perspective. If they do and are tier 6, they should be accommodated at tier 6 in the "Midland League" imo.

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6 minutes ago, Marten said:

I personally like the suggestions of a "midland league". A league encompassing Fife, Perthshire, Dundee and Angus would be a good one, but I don't think clubs should be forced to move against their will. We can get started with a league for the Tayside area, which effectively already exists. If the boundary gets moved, it would feed into the LL (I do now understand the arguments why Tayside clubs prefer being in the LL area, but I won't get into the politics of all that in my post now). There is a decent chance that Perthshire teams would choose to move across anyway from a travel perspective. If they do and are tier 6, they should be accommodated at tier 6 in the "Midland League" imo.

Don't see a "midland" league happening anymore. Or even a "Tayside league" now. To make a Midland league work you'd be ripping up the EoSFL as all the traditional Fife clubs are now in the EoSFL. So are a chunk of the Perthsire clubs.

Then it comes down to why would the pyramid leagues accept shortening their odds of getting into the Lowland League for 15 clubs? Because that's all it is now with Luncarty in the EoSFL. Tayport and Scone would be happily accepted into the EoSFL.

Tayside can basically become the North Division at the lowest tier and the handful of clubs that played at the old East Super & Premier level should be able to rise pretty quickly. Since by comparison there's no more Kelty, Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness taking up spots further up the East leagues.

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4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Don't see a "midland" league happening anymore. Or even a "Tayside league" now. To make a Midland league work you'd be ripping up the EoSFL as all the traditional Fife clubs are now in the EoSFL. So are a chunk of the Perthsire clubs.

Then it comes down to why would the pyramid leagues accept shortening their odds of getting into the Lowland League for 15 clubs? Because that's all it is now with Luncarty in the EoSFL. Tayport and Scone would be happily accepted into the EoSFL.

Tayside can basically become the North Division at the lowest tier and the handful of clubs that played at the old East Super & Premier level should be able to rise pretty quickly. Since by comparison there's no more Kelty, Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness taking up spots further up the East leagues.

I don't think a "Midland" or "Tayside" league has much of a chance existing in the LL area now.  The LL went through a lot of pain to set-up the WoSFL and now have three feeders, I think they'd probably like to see that reduce to two over time with the SoS operating at a more appropiate level, rather than adding a fourth (small) feeder.

It sounds like the shenanigans with the SPFL will likely see the HL/LL border move rejected by LL members if they are getting zero back in return.

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Think Fife would need to be split at around Glenrothes because large portions of it gravitate more towards Edinburgh than Dundee. The pressure from Brechin and the other Angus clubs for a boundary shift is unlikely to stop, so there's a fair to middling chance that a Midlands tier 6 LL feeder could happen.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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11 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I don't think a "Midland" or "Tayside" league has much of a chance existing in the LL area now.  The LL went through a lot of pain to set-up the WoSFL and now have three feeders, I think they'd probably like to see that reduce to two over time with the SoS operating at a more appropiate level, rather than adding a fourth (small) feeder.

It sounds like the shenanigans with the SPFL will likely see the HL/LL border move rejected by LL members if they are getting zero back in return.

There's just no need for it now. All of Fife (not counting Tayport since they don't seem to count themselves), Jeanfield, Kinnoull, and Luncarty are all in the EoSFL. You could maybe get away with it when both West and Tayside were trying to negotiate their entry but not now.

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17 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Lochee to Wick
4 h 33 min (235.7 mi) via A9

Lochee to Dalbeattie
2 h 55 min (164.2 mi) via M90

Love to see Lochee Utd playing at Tier 5 north or south!

I'm sorry, but if clubs aspire to play in the regional step below the national league structure, they need to be prepared to travel. If they don't want to do this, then they stay at Tier 6 or below or stay outwith the pyramid.

Edited by Cyclizine
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6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There's just no need for it now. All of Fife (not counting Tayport since they don't seem to count themselves), Jeanfield, Kinnoull, and Luncarty are all in the EoSFL. You could maybe get away with it when both West and Tayside were trying to negotiate their entry but not now.

The best thing they could do now, whilst talks are ongoing between HL and NRJFA, is to get involved with that.

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5 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The best thing they could do now, whilst talks are ongoing between HL and NRJFA, is to get involved with that.

You would think. Even then in the podcast that had all 3 regions represented, the interim head of the North Region had said they'd met 3-4 times already. Yet are no further forward 🤣

Can understand not wanting to be part of it if that's the case.

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Just now, cmontheloknow said:

Teams swap between leagues down there.

Yep. Going down that route will probably end up with a border going through Paisley...

There's been a conscious decision in Scotland to have a hard North/South boundary where you're one side or the other, full stop. This obviously means you end up with variable numbers on either side.

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17 hours ago, gogsy said:

Better get some floodlights and some decent standing area for the three sides of the ground that are grass banking, are the sleepers on the away dug out side still rotting away?

Casting aspersions on my press box?

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