Junior football, what is the future?

[Marten]

1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

Are they though?

A few loud voices and moans and groans from Glebe Park but has any club actually done anything concrete to move the issue?

It's still being discussed between the HFL. LL and SPFL. As far as I know, the HFL are happy to change it and the SPFL seem to support a change as well.

[Stag Nation]

36 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Until there is a pyramid system below the Highland League there is always a vacancy.

Only if the HL clubs decide there is.

[Dev]

13 hours ago, chavez said:

You seem to miss the point that the ERSJFA were and are acting for ALL their member Clubs so what would you have suggested they had done when faced with fact the EOS were unwilling to consider the Tayside and Angus clus??

…. so, if that's something which changes, would it make the difference to the West Lothian Juniors? 

The Dundee and Angus clubs would find it easier to travel to Aberdeenshire than to West Lothian, let alone to Edinburgh or the Borders, now the Aberdeen by-pass is built. Why would they continue to wish to go East of Scotland? Serious question.

There's no guarantees though that the Dundee and Angus clubs would be accepted by the East of Scotland League clubs. There's no reason why the East of Scotland clubs wouldn't accept the West Lothian Junior clubs on an individual basis - which is what is slowly happening.

Circumstances have changed which  make it awkward for the foreseeable future if the old "All-In" approach continues.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Ped said:

If brechin gets saved and they promote Kelly and brora together then Lochee or any tayside team could apply to highland league to fill there vacancy then they would be in the pyramid

but they need to licenced to do that, as things stand.

They cannot start the licence process unless they are already in a pyramid league.

One alternative is for the Dundee and Angus Juniors is to form their own pyramid league - but it would be linked to the Highland League as things stand.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Ped said:

If brechin gets saved and they promote Kelly and brora together then Lochee or any tayside team could apply to highland league to fill there vacancy then they would be in the pyramid

If Brora go up the HL is left with 16 clubs, which is a number they would probably be more than happy to have from a scheduling standpoint. They are more likely to want an extra team, if they still have 17 clubs.

Beyond that there is no indication that the HL have any interest in having clubs from Tayside on board. They only ever mention the NCL and north region as future tier 6 feeders.

[invergowrie arab]

54 minutes ago, Marten said:

It's still being discussed between the HFL. LL and SPFL. As far as I know, the HFL are happy to change it and the SPFL seem to support a change as well.

I don't mean to interrogate you personally and the following is half rhetorical but again I'll say is it? 

At what formal meetings between those three bodies is this an agenda item and who specifically is taking the actions forward?

I might be wrong but I get the impression there is a lot of chat, a lot of anecdote from the post match bar but that this isn't actually a live issue. 

As i said I might well be wrong.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

I don't mean to interrogate you personally and the following is half rhetorical but again I'll say is it? 

At what formal meetings between those three bodies is this an agenda item and who specifically is taking the actions forward?

I might be wrong but I get the impression there is a lot of chat, a lot of anecdote from the post match bar but that this isn't actually a live issue. 

As i said I might well be wrong.

The only thing that was close to official and public knowledge was the January(?) 2020 PWG meeting where the SFA asked the LL, EoS, SoS, and SJFA to come back with their thoughts on the HL/LL boundary. Of course when they came back for the next PWG the whole thing disintegrated and going by the SJFA "minutes" the boundary was never discussed. Then the PWG came to an end.

Everything since then has just been tidbits and gossip. Then whenever Brechin City gave interviews on potentially being relegated they would say they either didn't want to think about it or that they would get on with it.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Stag Nation said:

Only if the HL clubs decide there is.

That's kind of how a membership organisation works.

They're open to applications and have had a vote that they would accept up to 20 members before splitting into two two divisions if they reach 21. As long as the club is likely to meet licencing I don't see how they could be rejected since the Highland League is the only pyramid league in the North and they signed up for the pyramid knowing it had the potential for new members coming from above and "below".

EDIT: By the way you'll notice that since floodlights introduced to licencing the Highland League has removed that from their membership requirements. So technically there's nothing to stop a Lochee United from applying to the Highland League right now as they note a club is accepted into the league it confers the Registered member of the SFA standing. So it just comes down to a vote by the Highland League.

Edited May 8, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[Marten]

18 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I don't mean to interrogate you personally and the following is half rhetorical but again I'll say is it? 

At what formal meetings between those three bodies is this an agenda item and who specifically is taking the actions forward?

I might be wrong but I get the impression there is a lot of chat, a lot of anecdote from the post match bar but that this isn't actually a live issue. 

As i said I might well be wrong.

I do know it's being discussed between the 3, not at PWG meetings though. All 3 are in the PGB (professional games board) and I know they do discuss it with each other, so I assume it's in PGB meetings or informally. Worth noting though that this is on Brechin's initiative (i.e. the SPFL) and not because of a discussion about where Tayside juniors go, but obviously the issue does affect the Tayside juniors.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Marten

[welshbairn]

Pyramid you say? Who cares if it might risk sharing out the SPFL dosh a bit more.

[LongTimeLurker]

Main thing is that Club 42 is still in the firing line in 2020-21 under the status quo. Reconstruction potentially opened the door to mischief on that.

[LongTimeLurker]

What happens if the League 2 clubs said OK we will agree to save Hearts for you but only if  our preferred14-14-14 format ends or severely restricts the Club 42 playoff? The lower division SPFL diddies enforced a cartel system for decades when they had the leverage to do that sort of thing. Not good that the playoff didn't happen this year but it's important to bear in mind that relegation playoffs were cancelled in the other three divisions as well.

[Robert James]

8 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

Only if the HL clubs decide there is.

According to the Inverness Courier, RH has recently confirmed that he supports the North Caledonian League joining the  pyramid, including relegation from, and promotion to, the Highland League. He has also said that he hopes the North Juniors will reconsider its position, and join the pyramid alongside the NCL.

Given the HFL's statement posted by Welshbairn  above, it looks like the SPFL's 42 clubs are not in favour of any changes which impact upon the status quo, and its current member clubs. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Robert James
post sent in error before completed

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

I don't mean to interrogate you personally and the following is half rhetorical but again I'll say is it? 

At what formal meetings between those three bodies is this an agenda item and who specifically is taking the actions forward?

I might be wrong but I get the impression there is a lot of chat, a lot of anecdote from the post match bar but that this isn't actually a live issue. 

As i said I might well be wrong.

[Robert James]

In addition, Brora Rangers and Kelty Hearts have released a joint statement on their websites, expressing concern about being denied promotion to the SPFL, following SPFL reconstruction being abandoned..

[sdr71]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What happens if the League 2 clubs said OK we will agree to save Hearts for you but only if  our preferred14-14-14 format ends or severely restricts the Club 42 playoff? The lower division SPFL diddies enforced a cartel system for decades when they had the leverage to do that sort of thing. Not good that the playoff didn't happen this year but it's important to bear in mind that relegation playoffs were cancelled in the other three divisions as well.

The League 2 clubs need the big boys, but the big boys do not need League 2, and they would do well to remember that.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by sdr71

[santheman]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You should go and read the Falkirk one 

[santheman]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What happens if the League 2 clubs said OK we will agree to save Hearts for you but only if  our preferred14-14-14 format ends or severely restricts the Club 42 playoff? The lower division SPFL diddies enforced a cartel system for decades when they had the leverage to do that sort of thing. Not good that the playoff didn't happen this year but it's important to bear in mind that relegation playoffs were cancelled in the other three divisions as well.

It gives the 2nd division clubs another year to figure out how to close the trap door

[Dev]

38 minutes ago, santheman said:

It gives the 2nd division clubs another year to figure out how to close the trap door

I think that the HL and LL are likely to be well advised legally. They are already onto this.

The SPFL isn't dealing with impoverished mugs and I suspect that the SPFL won't understand that until it's too late for their own confused priorities..

This may be the perfect opportunity for the pyramid to become a reality upon terms set out by the Tier 5 leagues.

[Cameron Wilson]

HL and LL should aggressively pursue legal action. Scottish football has been held back in the dark ages long enough.