Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

10 hours ago, glensmad said:

10 hours ago, Ped said:

Thanks for that have the west clubs got a say in those changes just now or is it the rest of the remaining juniors who will decide 

All current members of the SJFA had the option to vote by midnight tonight.

 

Whilst on the subject of SJFA , is there an annual fee which the WoSL clubs will need to pay, if they also retain their Junior Membership ?

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Don't mind my post being taken apart and responded to and apologies if anything is incorrect

I think it s common sense, the junior west region league is a thing of the past, the junior association in the west is a thing of the past.
Personally, going over old ground again, but I didn't want that, I wanted teams who wanted to join the pyramid to be allowed to go and teams who wanted to stay junior be allowed like the West Lothian teams but its done now.
It should be written into the constitution of the WOS, the EOS, the SOS and the LL that the League games, SCC and big SC should be always take precedence over the Scottish junior cup .
In fact if there is another two cups then they should be taken before the SJC. The SJC is an external competition to the pyramid league and should be treated as such.  This should be done for all Lowland leagues teams and below.   I will say if its feasible to fit the SJC in under these other league and cup competitions then great, go of it.  Just need to check, do the remaining junior teams in the west Lothian, and the north, tayside etc.. still have to vote to allow the ex junior teams to play in the Scottish junior cup ?

Do I want any ex junior association guys in power in any shape of form at the WOS, HELL NO but my fears were confirmed right enough, spoke to one chairman and one committee man of two separate ex junior teams now part of the WOS in past week who both said to me about Rooney, great guy, looking after the association.  Both said they would be voting him in. I said are you off your nut, he is the guy who was threatening legal action. he is the guy who said the SFA would decide who gets to run the new WOS league when it was common sense that was never going to happen as the SFA could not do so. I will say both of these guys did admit they only seen it from one side.  As I said to them, I don't mind any guy going with someone's else's views but I'd rather you understand both sides and not be lied to and then make your decision. For me  I see similar traits on the same person who stated to junior teams at the junior meeting to go for OPTION Z and that it was backed by the Lowland league and the SPFL which were utter lies, knowing lies, to get the juniors teams sheep to follow. 

Junior football is finished in the West, you have to go with the times, hopefully in the future we all become one big pyramid and find our levels and teams who genuinely want to try and progress as high as they can are allowed to do so and any club who are quite happy to trundle along are allowed to do so without any hassle.
For me I'm hoping to see many WOS teams get licensed,  that way the SPFL have no excuses but to have  as straight relegation from SPL2 or not use it as one of the excuses for not having it.   I believe we are now going to have many clubs in the WOS, the EOS and the LL, HL and even the SOS stronger than teams in the SPL2 and thus they should be allowed a crack at that level. casing point is the Stenhousemuir chairman wanting no relegation from the SPL2 for a couple of years and as he says this will allow teams in the lowland league to reorganise and get over the virus problem and recuperate money to get ready for the future.  Talk about self preservation and saving their grade, the guy is shitting himself because he knows all the teams below are getting stronger and seeing a new WOS in the pyramid he knows many SPL 2 teams who last very long against these Lowland teams.

These ex junior clubs now are in an enviable position of if they want to get licensed then they can, just get over each obstacles that effect their application from going over the line, (but no rush, can take years if they want) and if and when licensed they enter the main Scottish cup and if they do well in a couple of rounds they may well earn a pay day that will cover their costs for a few years, also when they do get licensed and full members of the SFA then they are eligible for pay day at the end of the season from the SFA

 

As you say, it is "self preservation" without doubt, if the Stenhousemuir Chairman's proposal is correct ?

Also Sky Sports has reported that the favoured SPFL restructuring is to go for 3 divisions :  14/14/14 which I assume  means 42 clubs, and no promotion for Brora or Kelty  for next season ?  I hope that my assumption is wrong.

.  

[Hillonearth]

19 minutes ago, Robert James said:

 

Whilst on the subject of SJFA , is there an annual fee which the WoSL clubs will need to pay, if they also retain their Junior Membership ?

Yeah, there is - it's not much...either £30 or £50 annually IIRC, so that side of things is fairly inconsequential, with the real question  being whether clubs will wish to continue straddling two setups...I get that some will however.

[patriot1]

38 minutes ago, Robert James said:

 

As you say, it is "self preservation" without doubt, if the Stenhousemuir Chairman's proposal is correct ?

Also Sky Sports has reported that the favoured SPFL restructuring is to go for 3 divisions :  14/14/14 which I assume  means 42 clubs, and no promotion for Brora or Kelty  for next season ?  I hope that my assumption is wrong.

.  

https://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/6408/#.Xqf3LLfTVkw

It appears highly unlikely that there will be any agreement on a new set up so suspect Kelty and Brora are screwed. 

What do Clyde mean by the pyramid system needing reviewed? 

[LongTimeLurker]

21 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

...What do Clyde mean by the pyramid system needing reviewed? 

Nothing positive I suspect having read Clyde threads on here quite a bit. North Lanarkshire Council dealing with Cumbernauld Colts as the primary tenant at Broadwood instead of them definitely did not appear to go down well.

[stanley]

Smaller clubs in the SPFL obviously starting to panic about the possibility of relegation especially with the influx of juniors in the past couple of years.  It's already far too difficult for non-leagues to be promoted but Scottish football is all about protecting your own interests so I'm sure some SPFL clubs will try to restrict relegation from League Two even more.  

[Tutankhamen]

10 minutes ago, stanley said:

Smaller clubs in the SPFL obviously starting to panic about the possibility of relegation especially with the influx of juniors in the past couple of years.  It's already far too difficult for non-leagues to be promoted but Scottish football is all about protecting your own interests so I'm sure some SPFL clubs will try to restrict relegation from League Two even more.  

Old established league clubs, for instance Clyde, are quite rightly terrified of the future. A couple of bad seasons and they face playing Rutherglen Glencairn in a New Years game. What a come down that would be for Clyde. There's a good chance many of these old Senior clubs wouldn't recover from dropping into the LL. I have doubts Berwick Rangers or East Stirling will ever regain the heady heights of SFL2 ever again. Certainly not with a whole group of organised ex Junior clubs coming towards them.

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, stanley said:

Smaller clubs in the SPFL obviously starting to panic about the possibility of relegation especially with the influx of juniors in the past couple of years.  It's already far too difficult for non-leagues to be promoted but Scottish football is all about protecting your own interests so I'm sure some SPFL clubs will try to restrict relegation from League Two even more.  

They've always been panicked. Just look at how they treated the East Stirlingshire situation when they were finishing regularly bottom and being financially throttled by their then owner. The same guy that still owns Firs Park from last I heard and is letting it sit there and rot away because he can't make money on it.

[thebairns57]

5 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Don't mind my post being taken apart and responded to and apologies if anything is incorrect

I think it s common sense, the junior west region league is a thing of the past, the junior association in the west is a thing of the past.
Personally, going over old ground again, but I didn't want that, I wanted teams who wanted to join the pyramid to be allowed to go and teams who wanted to stay junior be allowed like the West Lothian teams but its done now.
It should be written into the constitution of the WOS, the EOS, the SOS and the LL that the League games, SCC and big SC should be always take precedence over the Scottish junior cup .
In fact if there is another two cups then they should be taken before the SJC. The SJC is an external competition to the pyramid league and should be treated as such.  This should be done for all Lowland leagues teams and below.   I will say if its feasible to fit the SJC in under these other league and cup competitions then great, go of it.  Just need to check, do the remaining junior teams in the west Lothian, and the north, tayside etc.. still have to vote to allow the ex junior teams to play in the Scottish junior cup ?

Do I want any ex junior association guys in power in any shape of form at the WOS, HELL NO but my fears were confirmed right enough, spoke to one chairman and one committee man of two separate ex junior teams now part of the WOS in past week who both said to me about Rooney, great guy, looking after the association.  Both said they would be voting him in. I said are you off your nut, he is the guy who was threatening legal action. he is the guy who said the SFA would decide who gets to run the new WOS league when it was common sense that was never going to happen as the SFA could not do so. I will say both of these guys did admit they only seen it from one side.  As I said to them, I don't mind any guy going with someone's else's views but I'd rather you understand both sides and not be lied to and then make your decision. For me  I see similar traits on the same person who stated to junior teams at the junior meeting to go for OPTION Z and that it was backed by the Lowland league and the SPFL which were utter lies, knowing lies, to get the juniors teams sheep to follow. 

Junior football is finished in the West, you have to go with the times, hopefully in the future we all become one big pyramid and find our levels and teams who genuinely want to try and progress as high as they can are allowed to do so and any club who are quite happy to trundle along are allowed to do so without any hassle.
For me I'm hoping to see many WOS teams get licensed,  that way the SPFL have no excuses but to have  as straight relegation from SPL2 or not use it as one of the excuses for not having it.   I believe we are now going to have many clubs in the WOS, the EOS and the LL, HL and even the SOS stronger than teams in the SPL2 and thus they should be allowed a crack at that level. casing point is the Stenhousemuir chairman wanting no relegation from the SPL2 for a couple of years and as he says this will allow teams in the lowland league to reorganise and get over the virus problem and recuperate money to get ready for the future.  Talk about self preservation and saving their grade, the guy is shitting himself because he knows all the teams below are getting stronger and seeing a new WOS in the pyramid he knows many SPL 2 teams who last very long against these Lowland teams.

These ex junior clubs now are in an enviable position of if they want to get licensed then they can, just get over each obstacles that effect their application from going over the line, (but no rush, can take years if they want) and if and when licensed they enter the main Scottish cup and if they do well in a couple of rounds they may well earn a pay day that will cover their costs for a few years, also when they do get licensed and full members of the SFA then they are eligible for pay day at the end of the season from the SFA

zzzzz  

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They've always been panicked. Just look at how they treated the East Stirlingshire situation when they were finishing regularly bottom and being financially throttled by their then owner. The same guy that still owns Firs Park from last I heard and is letting it sit there and rot away because he can't make money on it.

East Stirlingshire should ask Sir Alex Ferguson to help them out,  by having a friendly chat with the ground owner.

Sir Alex owes his brilliant career to his managerial debut with Shire in 1974.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Robert James
post sent in error before completed

[Jimi Shandrix]

57 minutes ago, Robert James said:

East Stirlingshire should ask Sir Alex Ferguson to help them out,  by having a friendly chat with the ground owner.

Sir Alex owes his brilliant career to his managerial debut with Shire in 1974.

He really doesn't. Read "Pointless" by Jeff Connor.

[Lowland team]

6 hours ago, thebairns57 said:

zzzzz  

A very well written peice,well thought out from start to finish. Can only agree with every word.

The section about stenhousemuirs chairmans comments is spot on.its not about our clubs getting over covid19 its all to do with giving them more time to milk the cash cow that is the SFA.

[Andy groundhopper]

Guess spfl clubs will try to get every penny they are due, hope that a future pyramid is pure,clubs will go up and down, and that clubs can accept that leaving the spfl doesn't mean you're in a wilderness from which there's no return. Do fans fear the drop into the Lowland etc thinking they are too good,big for that ?

[8MileBU]

11 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Guess spfl clubs will try to get every penny they are due, hope that a future pyramid is pure,clubs will go up and down, and that clubs can accept that leaving the spfl doesn't mean you're in a wilderness from which there's no return. Do fans fear the drop into the Lowland etc thinking they are too good,big for that ?

Exactly what the issue is and it’s not  just the fans.

[Andy groundhopper]

Wonder if we'll get the situation like in England years ago where the bottom side would always get voted back in - making things so difficult for clubs below to enter the 'promised land'  thus almost making the spfl a closed shop,so to speak. Sounds like they are protecting their own, not surprising at all. 

[Andy groundhopper]

 Let's hope so,gogsy eh. Can accept the clubs,fans worrying about falling into the non league set up IF they were powerhouses attracting 3-4,000 or a once giant fallen on hard times. I see clubs scraping by with an att of 500, whilst some of the rampaging juniors await their chance with a 1,000+ following. Suppose a Lowland LGE with 5  or 6 ex spfl clubs doesn't look so scary !

[Lowland team]

1 hour ago, Andy groundhopper said:

 Let's hope so,gogsy eh. Can accept the clubs,fans worrying about falling into the non league set up IF they were powerhouses attracting 3-4,000 or a once giant fallen on hard times. I see clubs scraping by with an att of 500, whilst some of the rampaging juniors await their chance with a 1,000+ following. Suppose a Lowland LGE with 5  or 6 ex spfl clubs doesn't look so scary !

These clubs have need to be worried,the likes of cowdenbeth.brechin city.albion rovers.stenhousemuir.stirling albion have propped up the league for years they have never improved but now they want to stop progresive clubs from improving.they see kelty hearts bonnyrigg rose and the bigger west clubs as a threat.these clubs have small fan bases home and away for the level they are playing at.it doesn't help when one of these chairman stated he would resign his club from the league if he lost the play off.

Brechin citys chairman put pressure on the spfl.that he would rather go to the lowland league than the highland league purely for financial reasons as the players and manager were based in the central belt.he sits on the boards of both the spfl.and the pgb.he would lose both these posts.

The S.F.A.dont want anybody to rock the boat outside the spfl.going to such lenghts restricting the membership numbers by bringing in a new rule last year you cant vote unless your playing in teir 5 reason!! we cant have the lunitics running the asylum can we.the whole establishment is run by self centred and self motivated people who like to stick with their own wee group of 42 in their magic kingdom.it will never change.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Lowland team said:

These clubs have need to be worried,the likes of cowdenbeth.brechin city.albion rovers.stenhousemuir.stirling albion have propped up the league for years they have never improved but now they want to stop progresive clubs from improving.they see kelty hearts bonnyrigg rose and the bigger west clubs as a threat.these clubs have small fan bases home and away for the level they are playing at.it doesn't help when one of these chairman stated he would resign his club from the league if he lost the play off.

Brechin citys chairman put pressure on the spfl.that he would rather go to the lowland league than the highland league purely for financial reasons as the players and manager were based in the central belt.he sits on the boards of both the spfl.and the pgb.he would lose both these posts.

The S.F.A.dont want anybody to rock the boat outside the spfl.going to such lenghts restricting the membership numbers by bringing in a new rule last year you cant vote unless your playing in teir 5 reason!! we cant have the lunitics running the asylum can we.the whole establishment is run by self centred and self motivated people who like to stick with their own wee group of 42 in their magic kingdom.it will never change.

 

Don't underestimate Brora Rangers. Alongside Cove, they have been a leading Highland club for years, are well managed , and have good financial backing.    SPFL clubs won't fancy going to Brora on a wet Tuesday night !  It's a hell of a long way north.  

 

[Cyclizine]

3 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

rampaging juniors await their chance with a 1,000+ following

No  junior or recently junior clubs have followings in four figures. I don't disagree with your sentiments, but this crowdwanking is bollocks.

[Lowland team]

32 minutes ago, Robert James said:

 

Don't underestimate Brora Rangers. Alongside Cove, they have been a leading Highland club for years, are well managed , and have good financial backing.    SPFL clubs won't fancy going to Brora on a wet Tuesday night !  It's a hell of a long way north.  

 

Yeah your right forgot about the highland league clubs Apologies for that.but just had to get that my chest.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lowland team