Junior football, what is the future?

[Junior Pub League]

21 hours ago, the original livi said:

They are not ex junior if they are retaining their junior status to play in the junior cup.

Mate, they are now senior. They are no longer a Junior club, if East clubs are happy for Seniors to devalue their national cup competition then they deserve all they get.

[Andy groundhopper]

Guess that it's floodlights to be installed in most of the leagues, does going senior mean 'being serious' ? If you're in a fairly serious football league,then you should accept that midweek games under the lamps are a 'norm' and not a rarity. One question, is/was the Junior Cup ever regionalised ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Junior Pub League]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

First he says there is no permanent veto over anything then in the next paragraph he states the league, SCC and SC fixtures will definitely have priority which implies that the WoS can't unilaterally change that even after it has voted in its own office holders. No point trying to reason with him.

You have had an utter mare over the last 24 hours, you are changing tack with nearly every post when its pointed out to you how you are totally in the wrong about what is happening.

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, Junior Pub League said:

Mate, they are now senior. They are no longer a Junior club, if East clubs are happy for Seniors to devalue their national cup competition then they deserve all they get.

...but don't dare suggest that there's a seriously bizarre and deeply tribal senior vs junior thing on the go on here. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Tutankhamen]

8 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Guess that it's floodlights to be installed in most of the leagues, does going senior mean 'being serious' ? If you're in a fairly serious football league,then you should accept that midweek games under the lamps are a 'norm' and not a rarity. One question, is/was the Junior Cup ever regionalised ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes in times .past the early rounds were  regionalised

[Ped]

Seriously LTL seems to be arguing with himself and bring others into it only junior senior divide I see is this guy trying to create 1 everyone else seems to be on the same wave line about it's the juniors problem to deal with and no matter who runs a pyramid league then league fixtures take priority to be in it 

[Black & Red Socks]

Seriously LTL seems to be arguing with himself and bring others into it only junior senior divide I see is this guy trying to create 1 everyone else seems to be on the same wave line about it's the juniors problem to deal with and no matter who runs a pyramid league then league fixtures take priority to be in it 

It’s pretty painful stuff reading his condescending replies to those who take issue with what he posts. Broadly speaking it boils down to ‘I’m smarter than you as you clearly don’t understand what I’m posting so go and read it again and then agree with me’.

As is being alluded to, he’s really just arguing with himself now as he has put so many people on ignore - or has claimed to.

[Robert James]

Just now, Black & Red Socks said:

It’s pretty painful stuff reading his condescending replies to those who take issue with what he posts. Broadly speaking it boils down to ‘I’m smarter than you as you clearly don’t understand what I’m posting so go and read it again and then agree with me’.

As is being alluded to, he’s really just arguing with himself now as he has put so many people on ignore - or has claimed to.

 

It is the LTL, and his posts are frequently like this. Best to ignore him completely, as I do, as he is 'never wrong' apparently.

[Ped]

19 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

It’s pretty painful stuff reading his condescending replies to those who take issue with what he posts. Broadly speaking it boils down to ‘I’m smarter than you as you clearly don’t understand what I’m posting so go and read it again and then agree with me’.

As is being alluded to, he’s really just arguing with himself now as he has put so many people on ignore - or has claimed to.

I'm just finding it he keeps contradicting himself and argues until he changes his own mind or is proved wrong like when his posts were all for the juniors and what ever option A B Cor X Y Z was right until wasn't

[Spyro]

36 minutes ago, Ped said:

I'm just finding it he keeps contradicting himself and argues until he changes his own mind or is proved wrong like when his posts were all for the juniors and what ever option A B Cor X Y Z was right until wasn't

He’s been doing it for months...

[FairWeatherFan]

Out of curiosity since the voting forms have apparently been put around all the SJFA clubs. What exactly is being asked in relation to membership and Junior Cup changes?

[Ped]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

He’s been doing it for months...

Yeah I just assumed when he changed his tune about option Z A G P whatever it was lol was because he was proved wrong pretty much every argument he had with burnieman now all those other arguments have blew up in his face hes now trying to plot another mabye he will just argue until he at least gets 1 right a clydebank fan brought up a great topic on the west of Scotland thread about reinstatements in SJFA mabye LTL can tell us if they will waiver these for now WOSFL clubs to play in SJC cup

[glensmad]

Yeah I just assumed when he changed his tune about option Z A G P whatever it was lol was because he was proved wrong pretty much every argument he had with burnieman [emoji1787] now all those other arguments have blew up in his face hes now trying to plot another mabye he will just argue until he at least gets 1 right [emoji2369] a clydebank fan brought up a great topic on the west of Scotland thread about reinstatements in SJFA mabye LTL can tell us if they will waiver these for now WOSFL clubs to play in SJC cup [emoji51]

The reinstatement rule would be abolished if the constitution changes are approved.

[Ped]

7 minutes ago, glensmad said:

2 hours ago, Ped said:

Yeah I just assumed when he changed his tune about option Z A G P whatever it was lol was because he was proved wrong pretty much every argument he had with burnieman now all those other arguments have blew up in his face hes now trying to plot another mabye he will just argue until he at least gets 1 right a clydebank fan brought up a great topic on the west of Scotland thread about reinstatements in SJFA mabye LTL can tell us if they will waiver these for now WOSFL clubs to play in SJC cup

The reinstatement rule would be abolished if the constitution changes are approved.

Thanks for that have the west clubs got a say in those changes just now or is it the rest of the remaining juniors who will decide 

[glensmad]

Thanks for that have the west clubs got a say in those changes just now or is it the rest of the remaining juniors who will decide 

All current members of the SJFA had the option to vote by midnight tonight.

[newcastle broon]

4 hours ago, Spyro said:

He’s been doing it for years.....

Ftfy 

[Ginaro]

Some of the posts in the last few pages have got a bit silly. There are clearly things that will need to change on the SJFA's end before next season for the Junior Cup to be viable (call them conditions if you like). But yes there would also need to be two or three WOSFL Saturdays free and arranged in Sep/Oct/Nov, whether that happens remains to be seen.

The LL already keeps both 17th August and 30th November free for the Qualifying Cup, plus the Southern Counties for the latter date. No reason why a Junior Cup round couldn't go there.

If the EOS didn't play the Scottish Cup/Alex Jack Cup or Qualifying Cup this season, they would have gained 7 matchdays. This would translate to 3 extra matchdays for the WOS (or 4 if they play at Xmas) with 4x17 conferences.

So in a normal season the Junior Cup could just about be played.

But if there is a non-members competition (a west Alex Jack Cup), a late start to the season or a lot of postponements, then I think that would make it impossible to complete.

Incidentally, I noticed on the Scottish Junior Football Pictures facebook group that Royal Albert said they probably wouldn't be entering the Junior Cup either, citing financial reasons. They mention non-shared gates and away games in the SCC - it automatically pays out for travel, but only for >50miles.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 27/04/2020 at 14:47, LongTimeLurker said:

First he says there is no permanent veto over anything then in the next paragraph he states the league, SCC and SC fixtures will definitely have priority which implies that the WoS can't unilaterally change that even after it has voted in its own office holders. No point trying to reason with him.

Don't mind my post being taken apart and responded to and apologies if anything is incorrect

I think it s common sense, the junior west region league is a thing of the past, the junior association in the west is a thing of the past.
Personally, going over old ground again, but I didn't want that, I wanted teams who wanted to join the pyramid to be allowed to go and teams who wanted to stay junior be allowed like the West Lothian teams but its done now.
It should be written into the constitution of the WOS, the EOS, the SOS and the LL that the League games, SCC and big SC should be always take precedence over the Scottish junior cup .
In fact if there is another two cups then they should be taken before the SJC. The SJC is an external competition to the pyramid league and should be treated as such.  This should be done for all Lowland leagues teams and below.   I will say if its feasible to fit the SJC in under these other league and cup competitions then great, go of it.  Just need to check, do the remaining junior teams in the west Lothian, and the north, tayside etc.. still have to vote to allow the ex junior teams to play in the Scottish junior cup ?

Do I want any ex junior association guys in power in any shape of form at the WOS, HELL NO but my fears were confirmed right enough, spoke to one chairman and one committee man of two separate ex junior teams now part of the WOS in past week who both said to me about Rooney, great guy, looking after the association.  Both said they would be voting him in. I said are you off your nut, he is the guy who was threatening legal action. he is the guy who said the SFA would decide who gets to run the new WOS league when it was common sense that was never going to happen as the SFA could not do so. I will say both of these guys did admit they only seen it from one side.  As I said to them, I don't mind any guy going with someone's else's views but I'd rather you understand both sides and not be lied to and then make your decision. For me  I see similar traits on the same person who stated to junior teams at the junior meeting to go for OPTION Z and that it was backed by the Lowland league and the SPFL which were utter lies, knowing lies, to get the juniors teams sheep to follow. 

Junior football is finished in the West, you have to go with the times, hopefully in the future we all become one big pyramid and find our levels and teams who genuinely want to try and progress as high as they can are allowed to do so and any club who are quite happy to trundle along are allowed to do so without any hassle.
For me I'm hoping to see many WOS teams get licensed,  that way the SPFL have no excuses but to have  as straight relegation from SPL2 or not use it as one of the excuses for not having it.   I believe we are now going to have many clubs in the WOS, the EOS and the LL, HL and even the SOS stronger than teams in the SPL2 and thus they should be allowed a crack at that level. casing point is the Stenhousemuir chairman wanting no relegation from the SPL2 for a couple of years and as he says this will allow teams in the lowland league to reorganise and get over the virus problem and recuperate money to get ready for the future.  Talk about self preservation and saving their grade, the guy is shitting himself because he knows all the teams below are getting stronger and seeing a new WOS in the pyramid he knows many SPL 2 teams wont last very long against these Lowland teams.

These ex junior clubs now are in an enviable position of if they want to get licensed then they can, just get over each obstacles that effect their application from going over the line, (but no rush, can take years if they want) and if and when licensed they enter the main Scottish cup and if they do well in a couple of rounds they may well earn a pay day that will cover their costs for a few years, also when they do get licensed and full members of the SFA then they are eligible for pay day at the end of the season from the SFA

Edited April 28, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[FairWeatherFan]

7 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Some of the posts in the last few pages have got a bit silly. There are clearly things that will need to change on the SJFA's end before next season for the Junior Cup to be viable (call them conditions if you like). But yes there would also need to be two or three WOSFL Saturdays free and arranged in Sep/Oct/Nov, whether that happens remains to be seen.

The LL already keeps both 17th August and 30th November free for the Qualifying Cup, plus the Southern Counties for the latter date. No reason why a Junior Cup round couldn't go there.

If the EOS didn't play the Scottish Cup/Alex Jack Cup or Qualifying Cup this season, they would have gained 7 matchdays. This would translate to 3 extra matchdays for the WOS (or 4 if they play at Xmas) with 4x17 conferences.

So in a normal season the Junior Cup could just about be played.

But if there is a non-members competition (a west Alex Jack Cup), a late start to the season or a lot of postponements, then I think that would make it impossible to complete.

I don't think there's a concern over finding the dates initially. Its more how postponements and the like are handled.

Like the 30th November for example which saw the majority of games postponed on that date. Out of the LL/EoSFL sides only 3 games were played.

And the 30th November also saw the EoS First Division with a full fixture list scheduled on that date. Since what was supposed to be the 4th Round of the Qualifying Cup most of them would be expected to eliminated.

EDIT: Also on checking the fixtures. The 30th was meant to be for the 4th Round of the Qualifying Cup as mentioned, but on that date had 2nd and 3rd Round fixtures slotted in showing the tournament was already behind its original schedule even before the postponements that took place that day.

Edited April 28, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[LongTimeLurker]

6 hours ago, Ginaro said:

...Incidentally, I noticed on the Scottish Junior Football Pictures facebook group that Royal Albert said they probably wouldn't be entering the Junior Cup either, citing financial reasons. They mention non-shared gates and away games in the SCC - it automatically pays out for travel, but only for >50miles.

Once ex-junior WoS club comittees  start to look carefully at who is actually left in the SJC at this point I suspect this will be the outlook of a surprisingly high number. It's doable in terms of the fixture list so arguments revolving around that are a red herring. Whether it is still sensible to be making long treks to play north region clubs in front of very small crowds when the SCC will be providing something significantly stronger in competitive terms is the issue that people should really be discussing on here.