LongTimeLurker Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, glensmad said: You forget that the Scottish Junior Cup is not going to be scheduled by the WoSFL fixture scheduler. It is not their tournament. Suspect you are wrong about that. The whole point of the SJFA rule changes that are being voted on is that the SJFA will have to dance to the LL/WoS tune in future if the WoS clubs are going to still be able to participate. That means the fixture scheduler for WoS (probably HibeeJibee) will provide a very limited set of Saturdays that don't conflict with WoS and SCC fixture dates when the SJC ties that are drawn will have to be played to a finish with no replays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the original livi Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 38 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: And Scottish Cup going forward. Auchinleck Talbot look like they'd be the only ex-Junior in any 2020-21 edition, but we know there should be quite a few more in 2021-22 all goes well. They are not ex junior if they are retaining their junior status to play in the junior cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 45 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Yes. But whilst SCC etc go onto the next available date the junior cup will find that more difficult because any other postponed games will be played on these dates first. They basically just need to find five Saturdays in the calendar. With the WoSFL not have two main cup competitions like the Qualifying & League Cups in the EoSFL. That's certainly possible to find. In the same way those cups have agreed dates in the calendar where the cup have precedence of scheduled league fixtures the Junior Cup would be the same. Assuming the Junior Cup is at 121 members (8 to the EoSFL, 4 announced leaving) 1st Round: 114 (7 byes) Same date as a Scottish Cup round 2nd Round: 64 3rd Round: 32 4th Round: 16 Qtr final: 8 Semi: 4 Final: 2 No Specified date End of the Season A game doesnt take place on the 3rd Round date, it would just get moved to the 4th Round date, slotted in on a free weekend or finally a midweek. The more teams that leave the SJFA the easier it becomes as you can get to a point where 1st and 2nd Round ties could be played on the same day to start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 38 minutes ago, the original livi said: They are not ex junior if they are retaining their junior status to play in the junior cup. That's how you might think of it, but I don't. If you're not in a junior league you're not a junior club. Dumbarton for years played in the Stirlingshire Cup and members of the Stirlingshire FA. Yet they're not from Stirlingshire 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Ha going back donkeys years, Bristol Rovers played in the Welsh Cup ! different country altogether. Totally agree that ex junior clubs shouldn't play in the SJC, unless I suppose their reserve teams played in a junior status League. Maybe the Junior Cup will go down the 'invite' route, just to get numbers up ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said: Ha going back donkeys years, Bristol Rovers played in the Welsh Cup ! different country altogether. Totally agree that ex junior clubs shouldn't play in the SJC, unless I suppose their reserve teams played in a junior status League. Maybe the Junior Cup will go down the 'invite' route, just to get numbers up ! Depending on who you ask they've already gone down the reserve team route. Bo'ness United, Linlithgow Rose, and Sauchie Juniors all left the ERSJFA for the EoSFL. Then Bo'ness United Juniors (Linlithgow Thistle amateurs formerly), Linlithgow Rose Community FC, Sauchie Juniors Community FC have joined the ERSJFA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Shandrix Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 31 minutes ago, gogsy said: Enjoy your pub league next season m8. Yes, we will thanks. I presume you'll be off watching La Liga yes? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, glensmad said: 5 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: And Scottish Cup going forward. Auchinleck Talbot look like they'd be the only ex-Junior in any 2020-21 edition, but we know there should be quite a few more in 2021-22 all goes well. Girvan will likely be in there too. Yes, Girvan will be playing in the Scottish Cup. Also, whilst not an "ex" Junior club, Glasgow University will be playing in the Scottish Cup, as current SFA Members. The other three new WoSL clubs, Bonnyton Thistle, Drumchapel United, and St Cadoc's, won't be entering the Scottish Cup, nor the Scottish Junior Cup in 2020/21. Edited April 26, 2020 by Robert James 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryman Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 13 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Because it is blindingly obvious commonsense that SJC fixtures like Auchinleck Talbot vs Buchanhaven Hearts are not going to be played on a weeknight. Any games in the SJC will have to be fitted round ALL WOSL commitments, so its blindingly obvious they are most likely to be played only where there is a free date for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryman Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 12 hours ago, the original livi said: They are not ex junior if they are retaining their junior status to play in the junior cup. All WOSL teams are ex-junior league teams, this is what people mean by ex-junior. If they give up junior membership they will be only senior league membership teams now. These teams are obviously now Senior teams. If teams decide to hold dual membership of the WOSL and the SJFA then they are in reality stradling the divide; becoming senior-junior teams or junior-senior teams, take your pick. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLad Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 The big problem for any ex-junior WoS club comittee thinking of steering clear of the SJC was how to explain to a managerial team and a dressing room full of players that they won't be playing any games on certain Saturdays early in the season because the club didn't enter what until very recently was by far the most prestigious cup in Scottish nonleague circles. Awkward doesn't even begin to describe what that conversation could be like. The Sunday Mail article makes it clear that the numbers should be there now for non-SJC participants to put together a viable alternative cup to fill up those Saturdays, so that should make it a lot easier for more WoS clubs, who understand that the SCC is now going to be much stronger than the SJC in competitive terms, to decide to steer clear and avoid a long trek to somewhere like Forres to play in front of the proverbial two men and a dug.Maybe the managerial team and players were consulted and dont really give a shit. They maybe wanted the step up to senior leagues and dont want to look back.The junior cup was a big deal when I was a young lad, but not for many years now. At least 10 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 12 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Why should the junior cup be allocated saturdays, if clubs cant play midweek then they should have stayed junior instead of joining a new senior league, too bad too sad enjoy yer trips on a tuesday night to whichever junior club is closest to Elgin. Buchanhaven on a wet Tuesday night in November for a Junior Cup tie! Can be played at Balmoor at least! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Free saturdays for the Junior Cup seems a bit of a kindness. At best they can schedule it on dates the big Scottish preliminaries are being played (and therefore Alex Jack in EoS and Alba in SoS). If a West type cup is used for big Scottish entry I'd have thought clubs would have to choose as the non-Licenced clubs currently onlty have their top league at tier 6 and one cup to go for, just like the current Juniors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 34 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Free saturdays for the Junior Cup seems a bit of a kindness. At best they can schedule it on dates the big Scottish preliminaries are being played (and therefore Alex Jack in EoS and Alba in SoS). If a West type cup is used for big Scottish entry I'd have thought clubs would have to choose as the non-Licenced clubs currently onlty have their top league at tier 6 and one cup to go for, just like the current Juniors. Or it cam be played when football nation cup is played 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, AlanCamelonfan said: Or it cam be played when football nation cup is played Would suggest the WoS Cup will have to be accomodated too. Dates are tight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 It is important to bear in mind that only the SCC and a League Cup have been stated as being all in for the WoS clubs. That gives the WoS clubs three fewer cups to participate in than EoS conference teams. Having fewer cups is what provides space for the SJC (as long as there are no replays) and whatever the alternative for non-SJC participants to that will be. In addition to the Alex Jack, the EoS also dedicates Saturday fixtures to the Football Nation Qualifying Cup in the pre-Christmas portion of the season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) The problem with the EoSFL/WoSFL comparison is there are more dates required in the WoSFL. Scottish Cup - the same South Challenge Cup - expanded by another round compare to this season with the inclusion of the WoSFL WoSFL Cup - 7 rounds / Qualifying Cup - 6 Rounds Junior Cup - 7 rounds / EoS League Cup - 6 Rounds Also the Alex Jack while an additional competition is played on the same dates as the Scottish Cup. As long as there are Junior Cup participants in the Scottish Cup you're not saving space there. The King Cup is now just a lower league cup that gets played at the end of the season, so doesn't really save dates for top sides either. EDIT: And some examples of how the EoSFL has to work around so many cup competitions. Edited April 27, 2020 by FairWeatherFan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Would suggest the WoS Cup will have to be accomodated too. Dates are tight. SJC participation would not have been agreed to by the LL subject to SJFA rule changes if it wasn't going to be feasible. This notion that Saturday fixture dates are not there to accomodate it is a complete red herring. What people should be pointing out is that the SCC is now a lot stronger than the SJC in competitive terms meaning that the latter is highly likely to wither on the vine in the years ahead if no further changes are made. The SJC will probably soon feel like an unnecessary duplication of the SCC given it involves a supporting cast mainly consisting of very weak clubs from the east and north that are often more like an amateur club in a west context. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 13 hours ago, the original livi said: They are not ex junior if they are retaining their junior status to play in the junior cup. Wakey wakey sunshine,they are now "Seniors" first and foremost,with the WoS league games and cups plus the Scottish cup taking priority. Some are only keeping affiliated membership to play in the junior cup as part of their tradition/history,already Darvel,Cambuslang,Clydebank and Kilwinning have said it's not for us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: SJC participation would not have been agreed to by the LL subject to SJFA rule changes if it wasn't going to be feasible. This notion that Saturday fixture dates are not there to accomodate it is a complete red herring. What people should be pointing out is that the SCC is now a lot stronger than the SJC in competitive terms meaning that the latter is highly likely to wither on the vine in the years ahead if no further changes are made. The SJC will probably soon feel like an unnecessary duplication of the SCC given it involves a supporting cast mainly consisting of very weak clubs from the east and north that are often more like an amateur club in a west context. They raised no objections but that doesn't mean they are going to rerrange the furniture to suit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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