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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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13 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Surely there must have been a plan in place. It can't keep getting made up as it goes along.

To paraphrase Orwell, if you want a picture of the future of the WOSL, imagine this ^^^^ forever.

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13 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Surely there must have been a plan in place. It can't keep getting made up as it goes along.

The plan is for seeded Conferences for 2020-21. Then use that to make up Tiered divisions. The specifics of that has been set as they're going to be a variety of ways to do. When it comes to seeding, do you use current standings, PPG or 2018-19. Stuff like that due to the incomplete season. Then for what 2021-22 might look like that's going to be down to what the members will want.

I'm sure the LL/EOS will present one or two clear options having given it some consideration. Then it will be down to the members to vote on their preferences. That's what has happend in the EoSFL during these times.

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45 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If they are there's a disagreement in the family. Has JuniorFitbaSC been converted, or finally found someone more Junior than him!

image.png.bacb98a32f0bb0a5b563f3983676689e.png

I guess the latter by going through this guy's timeline...

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Also, genuine question, what happened to Burnieman? Is he ok?
I'm well Jim, hope you are to.

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29 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Surely there must have been a plan in place. It can't keep getting made up as it goes along.

IMO it's only fair enough to let all the clubs together decide what the set-up should be. In this initial period, no long-term decisions should be taken, it should be about the first season and the clubs need to agree on the next.

One thing that needs to be kept in mind if the choice is 16-16-16-18 that just a few more applications later on can make it difficult to deal with, while 16-16-17/17 will probably be easier to deal with as the tier 8 can be split in 3 divisions if numbers increase, with the possibility of creating an extra tier for the season after. Currently there have been only 2 amateur applicants, but there could always be amateurs/youth clubs aiming to join at a later stage. Maybe they don't have a suitable ground yet and want to work on it, or they rather join at the bottom to avoid hammerings by the likes of Talbot. That needs to be kept in mind.

Edited by Marten

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What's with this 16-16-17/17 nonsense?

IF the 66(?) clubs do ultimately opt for regionalisation at tier 8 then surely 16-18-16/16 would be the way to go.

That avoids the need for two tier 8 clubs to be idle every match day, AND makes a 4-down 2+2 up relegation/promotion arrangement more palatable for the tier 7 clubs.

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It's great to see that the West pyramid structure is finally coming to fruition. With the abundance of clubs nearby to myself it will be great to get along to see games in the new leagues every now and then.
I'm sure the juniors holds some sentimental value for all the clubs but surely this a great step in the right direction and finally a chance for some clubs to really progress.
These clubs being in the pyramid system definitely interests me more than the juniors set up ever did. That's not me trying to belittle the juniors league but it seems their time was up in the West.

Exciting times ahead.

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Highland League could see promotion and relegation

by Will Clark  : 8th April 2020

(Extract from article in the John O'Groats Journal & Caithness Courier today)

Promotion to and relegation from the Highland League could be implemented in time for next season.

Positive talks have taken place between the HFL, the North Caledonian FA and the Scottish Junior FA North Region, to create a tier six division for the 2020/21 campaign.

If plans are agreed, teams from the NCL and the SJN Football Super League, could be promoted to the Highland League, replacing relegated sides.

League Secretary Rod Houston is confident the plans can be in place in time for the start of next season.

"That is the ambition, and for the the North Caledonian League, I am confident that can happen between these divisions. The junior no league might need a bit more time, but this hiatus may give us time to get everything worked out." 

The above article follows in the wake of 2 articles in the Inverness Courier, last week, about the NCL wanting to join the pyramid, and (separately) four new clubs having applied for NCL membership.

Edited by Robert James
typo error

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1 minute ago, Robert James said:

Highland League could see promotion and relegation

by Will Clark  : 8th April 2020

(Extract from article in the John O'Groats Journal & Caithness Courier today)

Promotion to and relegation from the Highland League could be implemented in time for next season.

Positive talks have taken place between the HFL, the North Caledonian FA and the Scottish Junior FA North Region, to create a tier six division for the 2020/21 campaign.

If plans are agreed, teams from the NCL and the SJN Football Super League, could be promoted to the Highland League, replacing relegated sides.

League Secretary Rod Huston is confident the plans can be in place in time for the start of next season.

"That is the ambition, and for the the North Caledonian League, I am confident that can happen between these divisions. The junior no league might need a bit more time, but this hiatus may give us time to get everything worked out." 

The above article follows in the wake of 2 articles in the Inverness Courier, last week, about the NCL wanting to join the pyramid, and (separately) four new clubs having applied for NCL membership.

Good developments, but frustrating for me that Tayside is seemingly still not even being talked about... :(  Hopefully this will finally spur things on over here too!

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15 minutes ago, archieb said:

What's with this 16-16-17/17 nonsense?

IF the 66(?) clubs do ultimately opt for regionalisation at tier 8 then surely 16-18-16/16 would be the way to go.

That avoids the need for two tier 8 clubs to be idle every match day, AND makes a 4-down 2+2 up relegation/promotion arrangement more palatable for the tier 7 clubs.

Probably because with 4x Conferences its easier to say 1-4 Premier, 5-8 First, below regionalised with possible next applicants.

Rather than 1-4 Premier, 5-8 with a couple of 9th in First, with regionalised below with possible new applicants.

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14 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Highland League could see promotion and relegation

by Will Clark  : 8th April 2020

(Extract from article in the John O'Groats Journal & Caithness Courier today)

Promotion to and relegation from the Highland League could be implemented in time for next season.

Positive talks have taken place between the HFL, the North Caledonian FA and the Scottish Junior FA North Region, to create a tier six division for the 2020/21 campaign.

If plans are agreed, teams from the NCL and the SJN Football Super League, could be promoted to the Highland League, replacing relegated sides.

League Secretary Rod Huston is confident the plans can be in place in time for the start of next season.

"That is the ambition, and for the the North Caledonian League, I am confident that can happen between these divisions. The junior no league might need a bit more time, but this hiatus may give us time to get everything worked out." 

The above article follows in the wake of 2 articles in the Inverness Courier, last week, about the NCL wanting to join the pyramid, and (separately) four new clubs having applied for NCL membership.

Now that changes things. Official confirmation that the North juniors could be joining the pyramid. Excellent news. 

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The irony is that the one region that has always been "forgotten" in the negotiations of the SJFA / TJ, could end up being the only one actually moving into the pyramid intact.

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42 minutes ago, BMan said:
1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:
Also, genuine question, what happened to Burnieman? Is he ok?

I'm well Jim, hope you are to.

Good to hear. All good here too.

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6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Probably because with 4x Conferences its easier to say 1-4 Premier, 5-8 First, below regionalised with possible next applicants.

Rather than 1-4 Premier, 5-8 with a couple of 9th in First, with regionalised below with possible new applicants.

There are other options.

E.g.  have a 2nd season with 16 team tier 6 and 3 x conferences at tier 7, then 3 x 1 up and 3  down plus 2nd to 6th in each conference forming 18-team tier 7 and remainder regionalised 2 x 16.

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4 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Might be doubts version four or is it five of Third Lanark might not be a thing anymore. Think a couple of the backroom staff moved to the Jimmy Johnstone Academy.

Yes, the current incarnation (if there is one) probably have no direct link to the old club, other than they share a couple of words in their name.

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2 minutes ago, archieb said:

There are other options.

E.g.  have a 2nd season with 16 team tier 6 and 3 x conferences at tier 7, then 3 x 1 up and 3  down plus 2nd to 6th in each conference forming 18-team tier 7 and remainder regionalised 2 x 16.

Personally, I think your idea is a decent one, first form a tier 6, the next season form conferences at tier 7 and then create one tier 7 etc. It should obviously be up to the clubs to decide, but I think the wish is to only have conferences for 1 season. Downside to that is that if leagues are close, 1 win could be the difference between (for example) tier 6 or tier 8...

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Realistically the arrangements of the new tiers in the West couldn't have been decided yet as it would be for the member clubs to decide, and until yesterday nobody seems to have known the full list of clubs who have applied.

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55 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The plan is for seeded Conferences for 2020-21. Then use that to make up Tiered divisions. The specifics of that has been set as they're going to be a variety of ways to do. When it comes to seeding, do you use current standings, PPG or 2018-19. Stuff like that due to the incomplete season. Then for what 2021-22 might look like that's going to be down to what the members will want.

I'm sure the LL/EOS will present one or two clear options having given it some consideration. Then it will be down to the members to vote on their preferences. That's what has happend in the EoSFL during these times.

Ok. I understand that nothing could be completely sorted until after the deadline but surely the structure was rubber stamped.

Also, the idea of getting clubs together to decide what the set up should be (as suggested by Marten) gives me the fear.

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2 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Ok. I understand that nothing could be completely sorted until after the deadline but surely the structure was rubber stamped.

Also, the idea of getting clubs together to decide what the set up should be (as suggested by Marten) gives me the fear.

To be fair, the decision making has been going quite well in the EoS. The WoSFL will ultimately be a member-led organisation, just like the other pyramid leagues.

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9 minutes ago, archieb said:

There are other options.

E.g.  have a 2nd season with 16 team tier 6 and 3 x conferences at tier 7, then 3 x 1 up and 3  down plus 2nd to 6th in each conference forming 18-team tier 7 and remainder regionalised 2 x 16.

I personally would rather do it a tier at a time like has happened in the EoSFL. I'm only assuming they won't do that as most quotes around the Conferences idea from West Clubs has been that it would be for one season only.

3 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Ok. I understand that nothing could be completely sorted until after the deadline but surely the structure was rubber stamped.

Also, the idea of getting clubs together to decide what the set up should be (as suggested by Marten) gives me the fear.

It's going to be Seeded Conferences in 2020-21. Everyone has signed up to that idea which is why you see so many clubs mentioning it in statements and interviews. So the structure has been agreed. Beyond that it comes down to the members wishes in terms of shaping 2021-22.

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