Junior football, what is the future?

[Guest]

Bottom line amidst the ongoing arguments:
- Have we made progress re the pyramid in Scottish Football? Yes
- Is it better to have all the WRSJFA clubs together in the pyramid instead of a messy situation like in the east? Yes
Time to move forward and look ahead rather than going over old ground IMO.

I often see the second point posted, a bit like a Donald trump rally really, and I still can't see the information to support the statement.

I am willing to be wrong here, so can you please enlighten me as to what mess there was in the east? To me, what happened in the east, and continues to happen, is clubs individually made their choices to either join the pyramid or stay junior. This is their right to do so, thats what democracy looks like.Not sure whats messy about it.

What I can't deny is that its good we have a West Side to the pyramid, it is nice that the clubs stuck together, but for me it seems some think they had no choice but to move.

Let's not pretend that what has happened is great or how some have went about things is correct because we have the outcome we wanted....have we reached a good conclusion for the pyramid, yes.....do all West Region clubs have what they wanted, no.......is forcing clubs into something less messy than allowing them to decide for themselves, time will likely tell us.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

I often see the second point posted, a bit like a Donald trump rally really, and I still can't see the information to support the statement.

I am willing to be wrong here, so can you please enlighten me as to what mess there was in the east? To me, what happened in the east, and continues to happen, is clubs individually made their choices to either join the pyramid or stay junior. This is their right to do so, thats what democracy looks like.Not sure whats messy about it.

What I can't deny is that its good we have a West Side to the pyramid, it is nice that the clubs stuck together, but for me it seems some think they had no choice but to move.

Let's not pretend that what has happened is great or how some have went about things is correct because we have the outcome we wanted....have we reached a good conclusion for the pyramid, yes.....do all West Region clubs have what they wanted, no.......is forcing clubs into something less messy than allowing them to decide for themselves, time will likely tell us.

Probably for the East Region sides that have remained, its the West that's a mess as they've killing off Junior football in the West of Scotland.

[Born To Run]

1 minute ago, G4Mac said:

I often see the second point posted, a bit like a Donald trump rally really, and I still can't see the information to support the statement.

I am willing to be wrong here, so can you please enlighten me as to what mess there was in the east? To me, what happened in the east, and continues to happen, is clubs individually made their choices to either join the pyramid or stay junior. This is their right to do so, thats what democracy looks like.Not sure whats messy about it.

What I can't deny is that its good we have a West Side to the pyramid, it is nice that the clubs stuck together, but for me it seems some think they had no choice but to move.

Let's not pretend that what has happened is great or how some have went about things is correct because we have the outcome we wanted....have we reached a good conclusion for the pyramid, yes.....do all West Region clubs have what they wanted, no.......is forcing clubs into something less messy than allowing them to decide for themselves, time will likely tell us.

Fair points to raise!

When I talk about the east, I'm mainly referring to the last minute nature of all the EoS applications and division that was drawn between clubs in the respective systems. Compared to the to & fro, just think it's much easier to have all clubs under one banner and work on necessary changes/improvements from there.

I'm not pretending that it's perfect in the West. What we have now is the best situation that could have arisen IMO, with no factions on either side of a junior-senior fence.

Clubs that are upset for now will notice very little difference in the grand scheme of things other than having the league run directly by members, which has been tremendously successful in the Lowland, EoS & SoS.

[Countryman]

15 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Probably for the East Region sides that have remained, its the West that's a mess as they've killing off Junior football in the West of Scotland.

 

As a seperate entity, yes; but does that really matter. It now exists in its own way in the new set up and clubs seem happy with that.

[Guest]

Fair points to raise!
When I talk about the east, I'm mainly referring to the last minute nature of all the EoS applications and division that was drawn between clubs in the respective systems. Compared to the to & fro, just think it's much easier to have all clubs under one banner and work on necessary changes/improvements from there.
I'm not pretending that it's perfect in the West. What we have now is the best situation that could have arisen IMO, with no factions on either side of a junior-senior fence.
Clubs that are upset for now will notice very little difference in the grand scheme of things other than having the league run directly by members, which has been tremendously successful in the Lowland, EoS & SoS.

Whilst I agree the West of the pyramid is great and will most likely see the reshaping if tier 5 down the way, in terms if teams making the lowland league and maybe a LL2 etc, I must say that the east clubs all chose their direction of travel after doing a fair bit of due diligence, I know my club did (Dunipace). Whilst there will be west teams who did the same, it feels like some clubs didnt want to move and feel forced into the move, that isn't a good place to have a member club.

I agree the West in is good, but my belief is that internal divisions (clubs forced against their will) has the potential to be much worse of a problem than an external division (different clubs from different associations).

Now you are right, in time clubs may change their thoughts and have their minds reshaped, but in my lengthy experience of old school junior guys they are really, really hard to convince to change their ways.

[Stag Nation]

43 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Whilst I agree the West of the pyramid is great and will most likely see the reshaping if tier 5 down the way, in terms if teams making the lowland league and maybe a LL2 etc, I must say that the east clubs all chose their direction of travel after doing a fair bit of due diligence, I know my club did (Dunipace). Whilst there will be west teams who did the same, it feels like some clubs didnt want to move and feel forced into the move, that isn't a good place to have a member club.

I agree the West in is good, but my belief is that internal divisions (clubs forced against their will) has the potential to be much worse of a problem than an external division (different clubs from different associations).

Now you are right, in time clubs may change their thoughts and have their minds reshaped, but in my lengthy experience of old school junior guys they are really, really hard to convince to change their ways.

There's nothing to stop them withdrawing their applications ....

[Guest]

And where exactly would they play? Who would run their league? Unless of course they weren't all told to put their applications in because there would be no league to play in.....

[FairWeatherFan]

I was looking around for some sort of news on twitter to see what was being said. Caught one side of this conversation between Gordon Ronney and KRR's manager who has a private account. Looks like it could be related to the usual we chat we see about the SJFA or WRSJFA helping with more financial support to their members.

[Stag Nation]

1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

And where exactly would they play? Who would run their league? Unless of course they weren't all told to put their applications in because there would be no league to play in.....

We are told (correctly) that in the new WOSL the clubs will make the decisions. Wasn't (isn't?) that the case in the West Juniors? If not, who does make the decisions? And how did the clubs allow that to happen?

They seem to have been told - by someone with no mandate - that they had no choice, and they have simply followed like sheep.

Don't get me wrong, I think the pyramid is the only way to go, but as you said " internal divisions (clubs forced against their will) has the potential to be much worse of a problem than an external division".

[Marshmallo]

10 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

We are told (correctly) that in the new WOSL the clubs will make the decisions. Wasn't (isn't?) that the case in the West Juniors? If not, who does make the decisions? And how did the clubs allow that to happen?

They seem to have been told - by someone with no mandate - that they had no choice, and they have simply followed like sheep.

Don't get me wrong, I think the pyramid is the only way to go, but as you said " internal divisions (clubs forced against their will) has the potential to be much worse of a problem than an external division".

If you think "the pyramid is the only way to go" then what's your problem?

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

We are told (correctly) that in the new WOSL the clubs will make the decisions. Wasn't (isn't?) that the case in the West Juniors? If not, who does make the decisions? And how did the clubs allow that to happen?

They seem to have been told - by someone with no mandate - that they had no choice, and they have simply followed like sheep.

Don't get me wrong, I think the pyramid is the only way to go, but as you said " internal divisions (clubs forced against their will) has the potential to be much worse of a problem than an external division".

The SJFA stepped away. Matt Bamford left his posts with the SJFA & WRSJFA once Clydebank declared for the LL/EoS WoSFL. There's only an interim Secretary of the West Region due to Scott Robertson leaving. The rest of the West Region management committee 3/4 were Premiership Clubs (Auchinleck, Kilbirnie and Pollok) that would probably be prioristing entry into the pyramid.

Not too sure who was already within the structure left to lead a remain campaign.

[Guest Mick Kennedy]

I’m hearing one the new teams to join the new WOSL is St Cadocs, with an ex junior manager will be their new manager. I believe they are creating a new adult team

[BMan]

I’m hearing one the new teams to join the new WOSL is St Cadocs, with an ex junior manager will be their new manager. I believe they are creating a new adult team

Heard the same.

[Guest]

If you think "the pyramid is the only way to go" then what's your problem?

The problem isn't so much the clubs moving in, we are all in agreement that it's good to have a West pyramid.

What people are trying to get across is that internal divisions, due to feeling like you had no choice, have the potential to be much more divisive than the division that appeared in the east after the masse movement of junior clubs into the pyramid.

The West clubs were effectively told they had no choice but to apply as there would t be leagues to play in. Other posters have reported clubs feeling very much forced into the move.

Other posters have said they didn't have to apply, which wasn't really an option it seems.

Whatever has went on, whatever ill feeling there may be from clubs who feel forced into the move, will either disappear once the wosfl is up and running and clubs acclimatise to their new (same) surroundings or come to the fore over time.

Here is hoping its the former.

[Lowland team]

18 minutes ago, Mick Kennedy said:

I’m hearing one the new teams to join the new WOSL is St Cadocs, with an ex junior manager will be their new manager. I believe they are creating a new adult team

Bang on.your 100% correct.!!!! and the 2nd club is another youth/boys club setup with no adult team as well. 

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Bang on.your 100% correct.!!!! and the 2nd club is another youth/boys club setup with no adult team as well. 

Won't be that surprising considering the way people talk about the u21s falling away. Access to the u20 Development league and an adult age side will probably just be another side to them so the costs won't be extreme. It mainly comes down to having the right facility for it.

[passbackdave]

I asked the question nicely.
What's it to him?
His club has never accepted that they were Juniors, and they couldn't wait to leave the Association that gave them a lifeline. So they've decided to leave the Juniors? Who cares? I don't think anyone in the Juniors does. So why do they care so much about what they're leaving? Scared they've made the wrong decision?

What is ur problem? I only asked a question. My club is grateful for the juniors giving us a league 2 play in and weve been good for the juniors aswell as id like 2 think(just ask the treasurer of every club weve played) what team do u support?

Mon the papers

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Mick Kennedy said:

I’m hearing one the new teams to join the new WOSL is St Cadocs, with an ex junior manager will be their new manager. I believe they are creating a new adult team

St Cadocs ?

Never heard of them.  Ground ? Town ?

Any info, anybody ?

[Sunrise]

St Cadocs ?
Never heard of them.  Ground ? Town ?
Any info, anybody ?

It’s a church/school in Newton Mearns. Think they’ve had youth sides play at Eastwood Secondary.

[the rambler]

The Pyramid proponents wanted the West Region to join. They have, every one of them, not happy, some of the West Junior teams didn't really want to join. 

The SJFA cocked up the Juniors controlling from Tier 6 down.  The Juniors have bent over, the Lowland League got everything they wanted. (Did I mention we never actually wanted the Juniors to control from Tier 6 down because they are clueless). 

Gordon Ronney did nothing to get the Juniors to join the WOSFL even though there was previously stalemate. Gordon Ronney forced West Junior Clubs to join when they didn't want to. Which is it? 

Honestly, some of the nonsense posted on here. 

Personally, I am glad that all West Clubs have joined and thanks to LL and GR for making it happen. Clubs that want to progress can  Those that don't have the means or don't want to progress can continue to play against the same teams and a few new ones.

There will be a few benefits mentioned on here more than a few times. The significant benefits will impact a third of the teams at most. 

Did all teams go willingly, probably not, many went to ensure they still had other teams to play. But all teams have moved, they won't be left in a rump League that would surely dwindle within a few years.

I believe that GR was correct to encourage all West teams to move and that in a couple of years when things settle down will be for the betterment of the top third and little difference to the smaller teams.