Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Marten said:

Where can that podcast be found? (I don't have spotify)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/down-the-divisions/id1506490084

[Dev]

68 Clubs :
(** means not known to have been verified publicly by the club)
Premiership (16)	Championship (16)	League One (16)	League Two (15)	Others (5)
Auchinleck Talbot	Arthurlie	Ardrossan Winton Rovers	Annbank United	Bonnyton Thistle
Beith Juniors	Blantyre Victoria	Bellshill Athletic	Ardeer Thistle	Drumchapel Utd PYM
Benburb	Cambuslang Rangers	Carluke Rovers	Ashfield	Glasgow University
Clydebank	Craigmark Burntonians	East Kilbride Thistle	Forth Wanderers	Youth/Amat 1 (Giffnock SC ?)
Cumnock Juniors	Cumbernauld United	Girvan	Johnstone Burgh	Youth/Amat 2
Glenafton Athletic	Dalry Thistle	Glasgow Perthshire	Lugar Boswell Thistle **
Hurlford United **	Darvel	Greenock Juniors	Maybole Juniors **
Irvine Meadow XI	Gartcairn Juniors	Kello Rovers	Muirkirk Juniors
Kilbirnie Ladeside	Irvine Victoria	Lanark United	Newmains United
Kilwinning Rangers	Kilsyth Rangers	Larkhall Thistle	Saltcoats Victoria **
Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	Neilston Juniors	Lesmahagow Juniors	St Anthony's
Largs Thistle	Petershill	Maryhill	Thorniewood United **
Pollok	Renfrew	Port Glasgow Juniors	Vale of Clyde
Rossvale	Shotts Bon Accord	Royal Albert	Vale of Leven
Rutherglen Glencairn	St Roch's	Shettleston	Yoker Athletic
Troon	Whitletts Victoria	Wishaw Juniors

Edited April 10, 2020 by Dev

[Marten]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/down-the-divisions/id1506490084

Thanks! 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

11 minutes ago, Marten said:

Thanks! 

On the subject of you being Dutch... I mind reading a few years ago about a derby in the amateur leagues in Netherlands between two clubs from the same village but was regarded as one of the biggest derbies in the country. Do you have any idea the game that was being discussed?

Just done a bit of googling and I think it's the Spakenburg derby?

Edited April 10, 2020 by AsimButtHitsASix

[Marten]

1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

On the subject of you being Dutch... I mind reading a few years ago about a derby in the amateur leagues in Netherlands between two clubs from the same village but was regarded as one of the biggest derbies in the country. Do you have any idea the game that was being discussed?

Yes, it's the derby between Spakenburg and IJsselmeervogels. I would actually argue it's the biggest derby in The Netherlands. Both teams are third tier & part-time. In The Netherlands everything that's not full-time is called "amateur" but in reality these 2 are not smaller than some of the strongest part-time clubs in Scotland like Alloa. To have 2 teams of such a size in a town with a 9,000 population is quite an achievement. The town itself is (outside of matchdays) a rather sleepy fishing town north of Utrecht.

I've been to one of these derbies, it was intense. The attendance was 9,000, so equal to the population of the town. Obviously these games always attract outsiders, but it became very clear to me that very few people in the town stayed at home that day. The grounds are right next to each other, even close to each other than Dens Park & Tannadice are!

[Dev]

Presumably the clubs will be seeded so that each conference is approximately the same strength. Guessing that using PPG is more appropriate than simply taking the "final" league tables.

PPG isn't perfect as some posters have pointed out e.g. some clubs will benefit if they haven't played their two fixtures against the leading clubs in their Division. Others will be penalised for having played against the top clubs and dropped points.

The other issue is that clubs have played different numbers of league games at home compared with away. Clubs' can have very different results records for Home matches as against Away matches. The table below shows what happens when you do PPG for Home matches separately from Away matches and then add up the totals which are shown in the end column. I have given the three "relegated" clubs a lower PPG Position e.g. third bottom Troon would be 17 not 14. The reason is that I have rated the three "promoted" clubs from the Championship as PPG positions 14, 15 and 16 instead of 17, 18 and 19. Trying to reflect the view that they deserve to be ranked higher than the bottom three in the Premiership when seedings are used to decide which clubs play in which Conference. I will post the same info for the whole league separately:

Season 2019/20 Premiership Overall     Home     Away     PPG PPG   PPG PPG Pos. Lg Table Pos.   P PTS   P PTS   P PTS   Home Away   Total 1 3 Auchinleck Talbot 16 41   10 28   6 13   2.80 2.16   4.96 2 1 Kilwinning Rangers 25 53   12 27   13 26   2.25 2.00   4.25 3 2 Pollok 22 42   11 22   11 20   2.00 1.81   3.81 4 6 Glenafton Athletic 20 36   11 25   9 11   2.27 1.22   3.49 5 4 Irvine Meadow XI 22 38   10 19   12 19   1.90 1.58   3.48 6 7 Beith Juniors 21 34   10 16   11 18   1.60 1.63   3.23 7 12 Hurlford United 19 29   10 20   9 9   2.00 1.00   3.00 8 8 Kilbirnie Ladeside 24 33   12 25   12 8   2.08 0.66   2.74 9 5 Clydebank 28 37   15 20   13 17   1.33 1.300   2.63 10 9 Cumnock Juniors 25 32   12 19   13 13   1.58 1.00   2.58 11 10 Rossvale 25 32   13 15   12 17   1.15 1.41   2.56 12 11 Largs Thistle 25 31   14 24   11 7   1.71 0.63   2.34 13 14 Benburb 20 19   10 12   10 7   1.20 0.70   1.90 17 13 Troon 24 22   13 19   11 3   1.46 0.27   1.73 18 15 Rutherglen Glencairn 17 12   6 7   11 5   1.16 0.45   1.61 19 16 Kirkintilloch Rob Roy 17 6   6 0   11 6   0.00 0.54   0.54

[Guest Moomintroll]

Yes, it's the derby between Spakenburg and IJsselmeervogels. I would actually argue it's the biggest derby in The Netherlands. Both teams are third tier & part-time. In The Netherlands everything that's not full-time is called "amateur" but in reality these 2 are not smaller than some of the strongest part-time clubs in Scotland like Alloa. To have 2 teams of such a size in a town with a 9,000 population is quite an achievement. The town itself is (outside of matchdays) a rather sleepy fishing town north of Utrecht.
I've been to one of these derbies, it was intense. The attendance was 9,000, so equal to the population of the town. Obviously these games always attract outsiders, but it became very clear to me that very few people in the town stayed at home that day. The grounds are right next to each other, even close to each other than Dens Park & Tannadice are!

Have never heard of them up until now but that Derby has just been added to my to do list, how easy is it to get a ticket?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

To be honest it wont make too much of a difference either way will it? It's a fresh start, as agreed by all, and if clubs are hoping to finish in the top 3 or 4 to get into the top tier of the WoSFL I doubt the difference in seeding will be a huge barrier either way. I doubt there'll be too much arguments either way

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, Moomintroll said:

11 minutes ago, Marten said:

Yes, it's the derby between Spakenburg and IJsselmeervogels. I would actually argue it's the biggest derby in The Netherlands. Both teams are third tier & part-time. In The Netherlands everything that's not full-time is called "amateur" but in reality these 2 are not smaller than some of the strongest part-time clubs in Scotland like Alloa. To have 2 teams of such a size in a town with a 9,000 population is quite an achievement. The town itself is (outside of matchdays) a rather sleepy fishing town north of Utrecht.
I've been to one of these derbies, it was intense. The attendance was 9,000, so equal to the population of the town. Obviously these games always attract outsiders, but it became very clear to me that very few people in the town stayed at home that day. The grounds are right next to each other, even close to each other than Dens Park & Tannadice are!

Have never heard of them up until now but that Derby has just been added to my to do list, how easy is it to get a ticket?

https://supportersnotcustomers.com/2014/03/30/the-spakenburg-derby/

That blog post is five year old now but looks he just turnt up on the day

[Dev]

Season 2019/20		Premiership	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
1	3	Auchinleck Talbot	16	41		10	28		6	13		2.80	2.16		4.96
2	1	Kilwinning Rangers	25	53		12	27		13	26		2.25	2.00		4.25
3	2	Pollok	22	42		11	22		11	20		2.00	1.81		3.81
4	6	Glenafton Athletic	20	36		11	25		9	11		2.27	1.22		3.49
5	4	Irvine Meadow XI	22	38		10	19		12	19		1.90	1.58		3.48
6	7	Beith Juniors	21	34		10	16		11	18		1.60	1.63		3.23
7	12	Hurlford United	19	29		10	20		9	9		2.00	1.00		3.00
8	8	Kilbirnie Ladeside	24	33		12	25		12	8		2.08	0.66		2.74
9	5	Clydebank	28	37		15	20		13	17		1.33	1.300		2.63
10	9	Cumnock Juniors	25	32		12	19		13	13		1.58	1.00		2.58
11	10	Rossvale	25	32		13	15		12	17		1.15	1.41		2.56
12	11	Largs Thistle	25	31		14	24		11	7		1.71	0.63		2.34
13	14	Benburb	20	19		10	12		10	7		1.20	0.70		1.90
17	13	Troon	24	22		13	19		11	3		1.46	0.27		1.73
18	15	Rutherglen Glencairn	17	12		6	7		11	5		1.16	0.45		1.61
19	16	Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	17	6		6	0		11	6		0.00	0.54		0.54
Season 2019/20		Championship	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
14	3	Blantyre Victoria	18	46		8	21		10	25		2.62	2.5		5.12
15	1	Darvel	21	53		9	24		12	29		2.66	2.41		5.07
16	2	Cumbernauld United	22	47		11	25		11	22		2.27	2		4.27
20	5	Shotts Bon Accord	18	34		9	21		9	13		2.33	1.44		3.77
21	4	Renfrew	23	42		13	25		10	17		1.92	1.7		3.62
22	7	Neilston Juniors	18	31		7	8		11	23		1.14	2.09		3.23
23	9	Kilsyth Rangers	16	26		9	16		7	10		1.77	1.42		3.19
24	10	Dalry Thistle	17	23		5	10		12	13		2	1.08		3.08
25	6	Arthurlie	23	31		14	19		9	12		1.35	1.33		2.68
26	8	Whitletts Victoria	23	27		12	17		11	10		1.41	0.9		2.31
27	11	Gartcairn Juniors	21	21		13	12		8	9		0.92	1.12		2.04
28	13	St Roch's	18	18		8	6		10	12		0.75	1.2		1.95
29	12	Petershill	21	20		12	10		9	10		0.83	1.11		1.94
33	15	Craigmark Burntonians	22	17		10	12		12	5		1.2	0.41		1.61
34	14	Cambuslang Rangers	21	17		11	11		10	6		1	0.6		1.60
35	16	Irvine Victoria	24	13		12	8		12	5		0.66	0.41		1.07
Season 2019/20		League One	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
30	3	Shettleston	19	43		9	21		10	22		2.33	2.20		4.53
31	1	Ardrossan Winton Rovers	22	44		13	23		9	21		1.76	2.33		4.09
32	2	Lanark United	23	44		12	24		11	20		2.00	1.81		3.81
36	5	Lesmahagow Juniors	25	42		11	22		14	20		2.00	1.42		3.42
37	4	Port Glasgow Juniors	24	43		14	32		10	11		2.28	1.10		3.38
38	6	Greenock Juniors	22	35		11	18		11	17		1.63	1.54		3.17
39	8	Glasgow Perthshire	21	32		11	18		10	14		1.63	1.40		3.03
40	9	Larkhall Thistle	22	32		12	13		10	19		1.08	1.90		2.98
41	10	Bellshill Athletic	19	31		8	12		11	13		1.50	1.18		2.68
42	11	Girvan	19	24		9	14		10	10		1.55	1.00		2.55
43	7	Carluke Rovers	26	33		15	23		11	10		1.53	0.90		2.43
44	12	Maryhill	21	23		10	10		11	13		1.00	1.18		2.18
45	15	East Kilbride Thistle	21	17		7	11		14	6		1.57	0.42		1.99
49	13	Kello Rovers	21	21		10	8		11	13		0.80	1.18		1.98
50	14	Wishaw Juniors	19	18		10	13		9	5		1.30	0.55		1.85
51	16	Royal Albert	22	10		11	8		11	2		0.72	0.18		0.90
Season 2019/20		League Two	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
46	5	Johnstone Burgh	14	39		9	27		5	12		3.00	2.40		5.40
47	3	Muirkirk Juniors	19	42		9	24		10	18		2.66	1.80		4.46
48	6	Ashfield	17	37		9	22		8	15		2.44	1.87		4.31
52	1	Vale of Leven	24	47		14	26		10	21		1.85	2.10		3.95
53	2	Yoker Athletic	22	42		13	29		9	13		2.23	1.44		3.67
54	8	Forth Wanderers	18	33		8	15		10	18		1.87	1.80		3.67
55	7	Thorniewood United	19	35		8	13		11	22		1.62	2.00		3.62
56	4	Maybole Juniors	23	40		13	25		10	15		1.92	1.50		3.42
57	9	Annbank United	22	32		10	16		12	16		1.60	1.33		2.93
58	10	Vale of Clyde	21	29		10	19		11	10		1.90	0.90		2.80
59	11	St Anthony's	20	26		12	17		8	9		1.41	1.12		2.53
60	13	Newmains United	19	16		7	7		12	9		1.00	0.75		1.75
61	12	Saltcoats Victoria	24	16		10	3		14	13		0.30	0.92		1.22
62	14	Lugar Boswell Thistle	21	8		10	3		11	5		0.30	0.45		0.75
63	15	Ardeer Thistle	23	2		11	0		12	2		0.00	0.16		0.16

Edited April 10, 2020 by Dev
.

[Marten]

2 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

13 minutes ago, Marten said:

Yes, it's the derby between Spakenburg and IJsselmeervogels. I would actually argue it's the biggest derby in The Netherlands. Both teams are third tier & part-time. In The Netherlands everything that's not full-time is called "amateur" but in reality these 2 are not smaller than some of the strongest part-time clubs in Scotland like Alloa. To have 2 teams of such a size in a town with a 9,000 population is quite an achievement. The town itself is (outside of matchdays) a rather sleepy fishing town north of Utrecht.
I've been to one of these derbies, it was intense. The attendance was 9,000, so equal to the population of the town. Obviously these games always attract outsiders, but it became very clear to me that very few people in the town stayed at home that day. The grounds are right next to each other, even close to each other than Dens Park & Tannadice are!

Have never heard of them up until now but that Derby has just been added to my to do list, how easy is it to get a ticket?

 

1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

https://supportersnotcustomers.com/2014/03/30/the-spakenburg-derby/

That blog post is five year old now but looks he just turnt up on the day

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure as I got a ticket through an IJsselmeervogels fan I know. I think you can get them on the gate, but if you want to go to one of these derbies, I'd suggest to just drop the home team an email to be sure. The people at both clubs seem friendly enough from my experience so I'd expect them to be helpful to you (I've been at both grounds a handful of times in total, derby and normal games)

[Marten]

It will be interesting to see how they seed Bonnyton, it would be a bit unfair to them to seed them 64th together with the 3 lowest League Two teams. Having 4 amateurs (providing all get accepted) will make it easy in the case of 4 conferences, just add one to each conference.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

I reckon they'll be seeded first as they're the only one at the level (tier 6) currently.

[Marten]

1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I reckon they'll be seeded first as they're the only one at the level (tier 6) currently.

That would be fair imo.

[holmparkheroes]

4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I reckon they'll be seeded first as they're the only one at the level (tier 6) currently.

Everyone will be tier 6, tricky where to place the non junior teams.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just now, holmparkheroes said:

Everyone will be tier 6, tricky where to place the non junior teams.

Yeah I see what you mean but I think the fact they're currently tier 6 and not moving into it will see them be first seed. It wont make much difference either way. Out of curiosity what position in the west region do you think Bonnyton would be in if they were playing their currently? West Region Championship/League One sorta area?

[bigdaddieb]

23 minutes ago, Dev said:

Season 2019/20		Premiership	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
1	3	Auchinleck Talbot	16	41		10	28		6	13		2.80	2.16		4.96
2	1	Kilwinning Rangers	25	53		12	27		13	26		2.25	2.00		4.25
3	2	Pollok	22	42		11	22		11	20		2.00	1.81		3.81
4	6	Glenafton Athletic	20	36		11	25		9	11		2.27	1.22		3.49
5	4	Irvine Meadow XI	22	38		10	19		12	19		1.90	1.58		3.48
6	7	Beith Juniors	21	34		10	16		11	18		1.60	1.63		3.23
7	12	Hurlford United	19	29		10	20		9	9		2.00	1.00		3.00
8	8	Kilbirnie Ladeside	24	33		12	25		12	8		2.08	0.66		2.74
9	5	Clydebank	28	37		15	20		13	17		1.33	1.300		2.63
10	9	Cumnock Juniors	25	32		12	19		13	13		1.58	1.00		2.58
11	10	Rossvale	25	32		13	15		12	17		1.15	1.41		2.56
12	11	Largs Thistle	25	31		14	24		11	7		1.71	0.63		2.34
13	14	Benburb	20	19		10	12		10	7		1.20	0.70		1.90
17	13	Troon	24	22		13	19		11	3		1.46	0.27		1.73
18	15	Rutherglen Glencairn	17	12		6	7		11	5		1.16	0.45		1.61
19	16	Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	17	6		6	0		11	6		0.00	0.54		0.54
Season 2019/20		Championship	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
14	3	Blantyre Victoria	18	46		8	21		10	25		2.62	2.5		5.12
15	1	Darvel	21	53		9	24		12	29		2.66	2.41		5.07
16	2	Cumbernauld United	22	47		11	25		11	22		2.27	2		4.27
20	5	Shotts Bon Accord	18	34		9	21		9	13		2.33	1.44		3.77
21	4	Renfrew	23	42		13	25		10	17		1.92	1.7		3.62
22	7	Neilston Juniors	18	31		7	8		11	23		1.14	2.09		3.23
23	9	Kilsyth Rangers	16	26		9	16		7	10		1.77	1.42		3.19
24	10	Dalry Thistle	17	23		5	10		12	13		2	1.08		3.08
25	6	Arthurlie	23	31		14	19		9	12		1.35	1.33		2.68
26	8	Whitletts Victoria	23	27		12	17		11	10		1.41	0.9		2.31
27	11	Gartcairn Juniors	21	21		13	12		8	9		0.92	1.12		2.04
28	13	St Roch's	18	18		8	6		10	12		0.75	1.2		1.95
29	12	Petershill	21	20		12	10		9	10		0.83	1.11		1.94
33	15	Craigmark Burntonians	22	17		10	12		12	5		1.2	0.41		1.61
34	14	Cambuslang Rangers	21	17		11	11		10	6		1	0.6		1.60
35	16	Irvine Victoria	24	13		12	8		12	5		0.66	0.41		1.07
Season 2019/20		League One	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
30	3	Shettleston	19	43		9	21		10	22		2.33	2.20		4.53
31	1	Ardrossan Winton Rovers	22	44		13	23		9	21		1.76	2.33		4.09
32	2	Lanark United	23	44		12	24		11	20		2.00	1.81		3.81
36	5	Lesmahagow Juniors	25	42		11	22		14	20		2.00	1.42		3.42
37	4	Port Glasgow Juniors	24	43		14	32		10	11		2.28	1.10		3.38
38	6	Greenock Juniors	22	35		11	18		11	17		1.63	1.54		3.17
39	8	Glasgow Perthshire	21	32		11	18		10	14		1.63	1.40		3.03
40	9	Larkhall Thistle	22	32		12	13		10	19		1.08	1.90		2.98
41	10	Bellshill Athletic	19	31		8	12		11	13		1.50	1.18		2.68
42	11	Girvan	19	24		9	14		10	10		1.55	1.00		2.55
43	7	Carluke Rovers	26	33		15	23		11	10		1.53	0.90		2.43
44	12	Maryhill	21	23		10	10		11	13		1.00	1.18		2.18
45	15	East Kilbride Thistle	21	17		7	11		14	6		1.57	0.42		1.99
49	13	Kello Rovers	21	21		10	8		11	13		0.80	1.18		1.98
50	14	Wishaw Juniors	19	18		10	13		9	5		1.30	0.55		1.85
51	16	Royal Albert	22	10		11	8		11	2		0.72	0.18		0.90
Season 2019/20		League Two	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
46	5	Johnstone Burgh	14	39		9	27		5	12		3.00	2.40		5.40
47	3	Muirkirk Juniors	19	42		9	24		10	18		2.66	1.80		4.46
48	6	Ashfield	17	37		9	22		8	15		2.44	1.87		4.31
52	1	Vale of Leven	24	47		14	26		10	21		1.85	2.10		3.95
53	2	Yoker Athletic	22	42		13	29		9	13		2.23	1.44		3.67
54	8	Forth Wanderers	18	33		8	15		10	18		1.87	1.80		3.67
55	7	Thorniewood United	19	35		8	13		11	22		1.62	2.00		3.62
56	4	Maybole Juniors	23	40		13	25		10	15		1.92	1.50		3.42
57	9	Annbank United	22	32		10	16		12	16		1.60	1.33		2.93
58	10	Vale of Clyde	21	29		10	19		11	10		1.90	0.90		2.80
59	11	St Anthony's	20	26		12	17		8	9		1.41	1.12		2.53
60	13	Newmains United	19	16		7	7		12	9		1.00	0.75		1.75
61	12	Saltcoats Victoria	24	16		10	3		14	13		0.30	0.92		1.22
62	14	Lugar Boswell Thistle	21	8		10	3		11	5		0.30	0.45		0.75
63	15	Ardeer Thistle	23	2		11	0		12	2		0.00	0.16		0.16

Something wrong in your calculation with Bellshill, We have 31 points but when its split to home and away the total listed is only 25?

 

[bigdaddieb]

28 minutes ago, Dev said:

Season 2019/20		Premiership	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
1	3	Auchinleck Talbot	16	41		10	28		6	13		2.80	2.16		4.96
2	1	Kilwinning Rangers	25	53		12	27		13	26		2.25	2.00		4.25
3	2	Pollok	22	42		11	22		11	20		2.00	1.81		3.81
4	6	Glenafton Athletic	20	36		11	25		9	11		2.27	1.22		3.49
5	4	Irvine Meadow XI	22	38		10	19		12	19		1.90	1.58		3.48
6	7	Beith Juniors	21	34		10	16		11	18		1.60	1.63		3.23
7	12	Hurlford United	19	29		10	20		9	9		2.00	1.00		3.00
8	8	Kilbirnie Ladeside	24	33		12	25		12	8		2.08	0.66		2.74
9	5	Clydebank	28	37		15	20		13	17		1.33	1.300		2.63
10	9	Cumnock Juniors	25	32		12	19		13	13		1.58	1.00		2.58
11	10	Rossvale	25	32		13	15		12	17		1.15	1.41		2.56
12	11	Largs Thistle	25	31		14	24		11	7		1.71	0.63		2.34
13	14	Benburb	20	19		10	12		10	7		1.20	0.70		1.90
17	13	Troon	24	22		13	19		11	3		1.46	0.27		1.73
18	15	Rutherglen Glencairn	17	12		6	7		11	5		1.16	0.45		1.61
19	16	Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	17	6		6	0		11	6		0.00	0.54		0.54
Season 2019/20		Championship	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
14	3	Blantyre Victoria	18	46		8	21		10	25		2.62	2.5		5.12
15	1	Darvel	21	53		9	24		12	29		2.66	2.41		5.07
16	2	Cumbernauld United	22	47		11	25		11	22		2.27	2		4.27
20	5	Shotts Bon Accord	18	34		9	21		9	13		2.33	1.44		3.77
21	4	Renfrew	23	42		13	25		10	17		1.92	1.7		3.62
22	7	Neilston Juniors	18	31		7	8		11	23		1.14	2.09		3.23
23	9	Kilsyth Rangers	16	26		9	16		7	10		1.77	1.42		3.19
24	10	Dalry Thistle	17	23		5	10		12	13		2	1.08		3.08
25	6	Arthurlie	23	31		14	19		9	12		1.35	1.33		2.68
26	8	Whitletts Victoria	23	27		12	17		11	10		1.41	0.9		2.31
27	11	Gartcairn Juniors	21	21		13	12		8	9		0.92	1.12		2.04
28	13	St Roch's	18	18		8	6		10	12		0.75	1.2		1.95
29	12	Petershill	21	20		12	10		9	10		0.83	1.11		1.94
33	15	Craigmark Burntonians	22	17		10	12		12	5		1.2	0.41		1.61
34	14	Cambuslang Rangers	21	17		11	11		10	6		1	0.6		1.60
35	16	Irvine Victoria	24	13		12	8		12	5		0.66	0.41		1.07
Season 2019/20		League One	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
30	3	Shettleston	19	43		9	21		10	22		2.33	2.20		4.53
31	1	Ardrossan Winton Rovers	22	44		13	23		9	21		1.76	2.33		4.09
32	2	Lanark United	23	44		12	24		11	20		2.00	1.81		3.81
36	5	Lesmahagow Juniors	25	42		11	22		14	20		2.00	1.42		3.42
37	4	Port Glasgow Juniors	24	43		14	32		10	11		2.28	1.10		3.38
38	6	Greenock Juniors	22	35		11	18		11	17		1.63	1.54		3.17
39	8	Glasgow Perthshire	21	32		11	18		10	14		1.63	1.40		3.03
40	9	Larkhall Thistle	22	32		12	13		10	19		1.08	1.90		2.98
41	10	Bellshill Athletic	19	31		8	12		11	13		1.50	1.18		2.68
42	11	Girvan	19	24		9	14		10	10		1.55	1.00		2.55
43	7	Carluke Rovers	26	33		15	23		11	10		1.53	0.90		2.43
44	12	Maryhill	21	23		10	10		11	13		1.00	1.18		2.18
45	15	East Kilbride Thistle	21	17		7	11		14	6		1.57	0.42		1.99
49	13	Kello Rovers	21	21		10	8		11	13		0.80	1.18		1.98
50	14	Wishaw Juniors	19	18		10	13		9	5		1.30	0.55		1.85
51	16	Royal Albert	22	10		11	8		11	2		0.72	0.18		0.90
Season 2019/20		League Two	Overall			Home			Away			PPG	PPG		PPG
Seeding	Lg Table Pos.	(In PPG Pos.)	P	PTS		P	PTS		P	PTS		Home	Away		Total
46	5	Johnstone Burgh	14	39		9	27		5	12		3.00	2.40		5.40
47	3	Muirkirk Juniors	19	42		9	24		10	18		2.66	1.80		4.46
48	6	Ashfield	17	37		9	22		8	15		2.44	1.87		4.31
52	1	Vale of Leven	24	47		14	26		10	21		1.85	2.10		3.95
53	2	Yoker Athletic	22	42		13	29		9	13		2.23	1.44		3.67
54	8	Forth Wanderers	18	33		8	15		10	18		1.87	1.80		3.67
55	7	Thorniewood United	19	35		8	13		11	22		1.62	2.00		3.62
56	4	Maybole Juniors	23	40		13	25		10	15		1.92	1.50		3.42
57	9	Annbank United	22	32		10	16		12	16		1.60	1.33		2.93
58	10	Vale of Clyde	21	29		10	19		11	10		1.90	0.90		2.80
59	11	St Anthony's	20	26		12	17		8	9		1.41	1.12		2.53
60	13	Newmains United	19	16		7	7		12	9		1.00	0.75		1.75
61	12	Saltcoats Victoria	24	16		10	3		14	13		0.30	0.92		1.22
62	14	Lugar Boswell Thistle	21	8		10	3		11	5		0.30	0.45		0.75
63	15	Ardeer Thistle	23	2		11	0		12	2		0.00	0.16		0.16

Sorry Dev, have the correct PPG just the wrong figure for home points. 18 points won at home

[Robert James]

34 minutes ago, holmparkheroes said:

Everyone will be tier 6, tricky where to place the non junior teams.

I wouldn't  "seed" Bonnyton, Glasgow Uni, or Drumchapel, sas it isn't necessary . Instead, I would  complete the Juniors "seedings" draw for each conference, and then separately draw the names of these three clubs, and add them, one each to the individual conferences.  

We don't know who the other TWO Amateur applicants are, or whether they will be accepted into the WoSL.  If they are, the same  system can be used to determine which conference they would also go into, for 2020/21. 

 

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Presumably the clubs will be seeded so that each conference is approximately the same strength. Guessing that using PPG is more appropriate than simply taking the "final" league tables.

PPG isn't perfect as some posters have pointed out e.g. some clubs will benefit if they haven't played their two fixtures against the leading clubs in their Division. Others will be penalised for having played against the top clubs and dropped points.

The other issue is that clubs have played different numbers of league games at home compared with away. Clubs' can have very different results records for Home matches as against Away matches. The table below shows what happens when you do PPG for Home matches separately from Away matches and then add up the totals which are shown in the end column. I have given the three "relegated" clubs a lower PPG Position e.g. third bottom Troon would be 17 not 14. The reason is that I have rated the three "promoted" clubs from the Championship as PPG positions 14, 15 and 16 instead of 17, 18 and 19. Trying to reflect the view that they deserve to be ranked higher than the bottom three in the Premiership when seedings are used to decide which clubs play in which Conference. I will post the same info for the whole league separately:

Season 2019/20 Premiership Overall     Home     Away     PPG PPG   PPG PPG Pos. Lg Table Pos.   P PTS   P PTS   P PTS   Home Away   Total 1 3 Auchinleck Talbot 16 41   10 28   6 13   2.80 2.16   4.96 2 1 Kilwinning Rangers 25 53   12 27   13 26   2.25 2.00   4.25 3 2 Pollok 22 42   11 22   11 20   2.00 1.81   3.81 4 6 Glenafton Athletic 20 36   11 25   9 11   2.27 1.22   3.49 5 4 Irvine Meadow XI 22 38   10 19   12 19   1.90 1.58   3.48 6 7 Beith Juniors 21 34   10 16   11 18   1.60 1.63   3.23 7 12 Hurlford United 19 29   10 20   9 9   2.00 1.00   3.00 8 8 Kilbirnie Ladeside 24 33   12 25   12 8   2.08 0.66   2.74 9 5 Clydebank 28 37   15 20   13 17   1.33 1.300   2.63 10 9 Cumnock Juniors 25 32   12 19   13 13   1.58 1.00   2.58 11 10 Rossvale 25 32   13 15   12 17   1.15 1.41   2.56 12 11 Largs Thistle 25 31   14 24   11 7   1.71 0.63   2.34 13 14 Benburb 20 19   10 12   10 7   1.20 0.70   1.90 17 13 Troon 24 22   13 19   11 3   1.46 0.27   1.73 18 15 Rutherglen Glencairn 17 12   6 7   11 5   1.16 0.45   1.61 19 16 Kirkintilloch Rob Roy 17 6   6 0   11 6   0.00 0.54   0.54

Adding the two together is a bit unfair - imagine a team had won all of their home games but hadn't played any away games. They'd be able to get a maximum total of 3 despite clearly being better than that.