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Junior football, what is the future?

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1 minute ago, honestman54 said:

It shows Wishaw, but I havent seen evidence of them joining as yet, unless ive missed it

Read the recent post on this thread by the Wishaw Secretary

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1 minute ago, honestman54 said:

It shows Wishaw, but I havent seen evidence of them joining as yet, unless ive missed it

Check this thread. Their secretary confirmed it on here a couple of pages back.

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6 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

What do you mean by 'parachute' , and where is the feeling coming from that small clubs will be 'cast adrift' ?

The smaller clubs in the EoS haven't been 'cast adrift' in any way that I can see or have heard, so I'm not sure why anyone would think that would happen in the West.

The same thing was said about the Lowland League "Its doomed to fail. We'd have to go back to the Juniors and start at the BOTTOM. Its not worth the risk!" Even though the Lowland League was basically the old EoS Premier and the EoS had been going on since the 1920s.

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6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Check this thread. Their secretary confirmed it on here a couple of pages back.

OK, ive re-read it and it didnt seem to me to say that they had definitely applied.  However, I will acept youre better wisdom on this.

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3 hours ago, Wishaw Secretary said:

...For the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever, Wishaw Juniors will be submitting an application for membership of the West of Scotland League as proposed by The Lowland League...

 

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21 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

What do you mean by 'parachute' , and where is the feeling coming from that small clubs will be 'cast adrift' ?

The smaller clubs in the EoS haven't been 'cast adrift' in any way that I can see or have heard, so I'm not sure why anyone would think that would happen in the West.

The retention of Junior membership would suggest that there is an area of doubt with the possibility of fslling back ie Parachute... The official set up will confirm/allay these fears to an extent... If all is carried across as is then my fears are real.. If the governing body use this opportunity to apply equal opportunity to all clubs then great 

Ie, Top 4 from each league create 1league

Next 4 from each league create another and so forth... The winners of each league move into top tier of new set up with the opportunity to win promotion to lowland set up... 

Just an idea to consider

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54 minutes ago, Frodo17 said:

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

Are there any others with these concerns? 

Currently at tier 7 in the EoSFL, there are 9 Licensed sides out of 24 (or will be once rubber stamped at the next SFA AGM). Three of them came from the East Juniors, Dunipace, Easthouses and Haddington just two years ago.  Those clubs showed ambition to progress, improve their facilities and embrace what the pyramid offered.

Alongside them are a mix of similarly ambitious ex junior clubs who are still progressing their licence, such as Dalkeith, Oakley, Edinburgh Utd and St Andrews.  Others such as Glenrothes, Kinnoull and  Arniston may choose to go down the licence route or they may not.  If they don't, then they can still be promoted to the EOS Premier League at Tier 6.

No side has been "cast adrift" or left behind in any other way.

The 8 new ex-East Junior applicants to the EOSFL for next season will join at Tier 7. Each of them will find their level (at tier 6, 7 or 8.) after just one season, but ultimately it will be up to each club how they embrace the new league. If they are comfortable at that level then great. The EOSFL allows clubs to operate at a level that matches their ambitions, but they will still have access to the various competitions that will allow them to face the "Big Guns" with the luck of the draw.

Edited by Footballfirst

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10 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Currently at tier 7 in the EoSFL, there are 9 Licensed sides out of 24 (or will be once rubber stamped at the next SFA AGM). Three of them came from the East Juniors, Dunipace, Easthouses and Haddington just two years ago.  Those clubs showed ambition to progress, improve their facilities and embrace what the pyramid offered.

Alongside them are a mix of similarly ambitious ex junior clubs who are still progressing their licence, such as Dalkeith, Oakley, Edinburgh Utd and St Andrews.  Others such as Glenrothes, Kinnoull and  Arniston may choose to go down the licence route or they may not.  If they don't, then they can still be promoted to the EOS Premier League at Tier 6.

No side has been "cast adrift" or left behind in any other way.

The 8 new ex-East Junior applicants to the EOSFL for next season will join at Tier 7. Each of them will find their level (at tier 6, 7 or 8.) after just one season, but ultimately it will be up to each club how they embrace the new league. If they are comfortable at that level then great. The EOSFL allows clubs to operate at a level that matches their ambitions, but they will still have access to the various competitions that will allow them to face the "Big Guns" with the luck of the draw.

Best thing Perthshire could do is talk to some of the clubs mentioned about life in the EOS. That should settle any qualms they might have.

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Earlier in the day there was discussion of how the Junior Cup could fit in to the WOS calendar. @glensmad

Here is a list of the original EOS week by week fixture schedule for this season. As you can see, without the Scottish Cup/Alex Jack Cup and EOS Qualifying Cup, the EOS would gain five matchdays. Plus a couple more if they played extra August midweeks like the West did.

Once the end of season deadline, Scottish Cup, and South Challenge Cup dates have all been set - the SJFA could then decide their dates for the Junior Cup. After that the WOS league games can be slotted in around those dates, just like the EOS do around their own competitions.

The only problem is, what happens if a Junior Cup game is postponed - do they wait until the date of the next round; do they play it the next weekend if both clubs are from the same region; or do they negotiate with all the affected clubs across the regions to get it played the next weekend? 🤔

  League Scottish Cup Alex Jack Cup South Challenge Cup Qualifying Cup League Cup Junior Cup
Saturday 27 July 1            
Wednesday 31 July 2            
Saturday 3 August 3            
Wednesday 7 August              
Saturday 10 August   PR1 1R        
Saturday 17 August         1R    
Saturday 24 August 4 (now SCC)     1R      
Saturday 31 August   PR2 2R        
Saturday 7 September 5            
Saturday 14 September       2R     1R (not needed)
Saturday 21 September   1R 3R        
Saturday 28 September 6           2R
Wednesday 2 October 7 (floodlights)            
Saturday 5 October 8            
Saturday 12 October       3R      
Saturday 19 October 9 2R SF        
Saturday 26 October 10           3R
Saturday 2 November 11            
Saturday 9 November       4R      
Saturday 16 November 12            
Saturday 23 November 13 3R F       4R
Saturday 30 November         4R (P-P)    
Saturday 7 December 14            
Saturday 14 December 15            
Saturday 21 December Christmas Break  
Saturday 28 December 16            
Saturday 4 January 17            
Saturday 11 January 18            
Saturday 18 January   4R     SF    
Saturday 25 January 19           5R
Saturday 1 February 20            
Saturday 8 February 21 5R          
Saturday 15 February 22            
Saturday 22 February 23           QF
Saturday 29 February 24 QF          
Saturday 7 March       QF   2R  
Saturday 14 March 25            
Saturday 21 March 26            
Saturday 28 March         F 3R SF1
Saturday 4 April 27     SF     SF2
Saturday 11 April 28 SF          
Saturday 18 April           4R  
Saturday 25 April 29            
Saturday 2 May 30            
Saturday 9 May LL PO leg 1            
Saturday 16 May LL PO leg 2         SF  
Saturday 23 May       F      
Saturday 30 May           F  
              F?

 

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18 minutes ago, Frodo17 said:

The retention of Junior membership would suggest that there is an area of doubt with the possibility of fslling back ie Parachute... The official set up will confirm/allay these fears to an extent... If all is carried across as is then my fears are real.. If the governing body use this opportunity to apply equal opportunity to all clubs then great 

Ie, Top 4 from each league create 1league

Next 4 from each league create another and so forth... The winners of each league move into top tier of new set up with the opportunity to win promotion to lowland set up... 

Just an idea to consider

They have considered it.

The statement from the meeting between all parties stated a preference for conferences for one season, ie. all teams start at Tier 6 in parallel conferences.

The retention of SJFA membership is primarily about giving the clubs the option to continue participation in the Junior Cup

Edited by Doonhamer1969

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8 minutes ago, Frodo17 said:

The retention of Junior membership would suggest that there is an area of doubt with the possibility of fslling back ie Parachute... The official set up will confirm/allay these fears to an extent... If all is carried across as is then my fears are real.. If the governing body use this opportunity to apply equal opportunity to all clubs then great 

Ie, Top 4 from each league create 1league

Next 4 from each league create another and so forth... The winners of each league move into top tier of new set up with the opportunity to win promotion to lowland set up... 

Just an idea to consider

The conferences won't be set up like that, it would create horrible inbalance between them.  It will be done like the EoS where the clubs get spread between the confrences to have them as equal strength as possible.  It is nearly certain this will be the new set up for year 1. 

 

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Currently at tier 7 in the EoSFL, there are 9 Licensed sides out of 24 (or will be once rubber stamped at the next SFA AGM). Three of them came from the East Juniors, Dunipace, Easthouses and Haddington just two years ago.  Those clubs showed ambition to progress, improve their facilities and embrace what the pyramid offered.

Alongside them are a mix of similarly ambitious ex junior clubs who are still progressing their licence, such as Dalkeith, Oakley, Edinburgh Utd and St Andrews.  Others such as Glenrothes, Kinnoull and  Arniston may choose to go down the licence route or they may not.  If they don't, then they can still be promoted to the EOS Premier League at Tier 6.

No side has been "cast adrift" or left behind in any other way.

The 8 new ex-East Junior applicants to the EOSFL for next season will join at Tier 7. Each of them will find their level (at tier 6, 7 or 8.) after just one season, but ultimately it will be up to each club how they embrace the new league. If they are comfortable at that level then great. The EOSFL allows clubs to operate at a level that matches their ambitions, but they will still have access to the various competitions that will allow them to face the "Big Guns" with the luck of the draw.

I believe its in EoS rules that you must be working towards licencing. It doesn't mean huge amounts as clubs can work at their own pace but its a general understanding that nobody is just going to try and have the best side on the pitch and completely ignore off-field.

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1 hour ago, Frodo17 said:

Having spoken with management at Glasgow Perthshire FC there is a genuine feeling of uncertainty. 

The Future seems more clouded than ever as looking at where we are and where we are headed it would seem that clubs like ourselves are being taken as a token gesture. It remains to be seen what the official decision will be as to league set ups but it seems likely BIG clubs will be favoured with the rest basically fulfilling an obligation to take all on board. 

As we stand some clubs haven't made official statement of their position, is there a reason? 

Is there also a reason for maintaining SJFA membership, other than the Junior cup reason as seems fiimsy. 

Is there a potential parachute if this doesn't work as the organisations hope? 

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

Are there any others with these concerns? 

Where are you getting this stuff from? I'd really like to know. It does not seem likely in the slightest that any clubs will be favoured over others, for any reason. Why don't you ask representatives of clubs who have played or still are playing in conferences in the EOS how they're working out for them? Or you could even read the posts on the subject here, almost all of them written by fair-minded people with a keen interest in the progression of what remains (despite the undoubted negatives) our national sport?

 

The comment about the Lowland League is actually insulting, and does you no favours, but if you genuinely want advice or answers, you're more likely to get them here than wherever you've been looking for them previously.

Edited by Bad Wolf

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Noticed this from Cumnock soon after saying they'd applied for the WOS:

 

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1 hour ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Meanwhile, someone at Kilwinning has a sense of humour.

IMG_20200401_235105.JPG

Whoever runs the Kilwinning Twitter has a good sense of humour, I remember them talking about Blockchain at some point which was a good laugh,

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4 hours ago, Frodo17 said:

 

My fear is that Lowland will have their way and clubs known as BIG GUNS will be bedded in and the rest of us will be cast adrift. 

Are there any others with these concerns? 

I know a lot of folk have replied to you and I don't want to hound you, but really, have you seen how happy the smallest clubs are in the EoS? 

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32 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I know a lot of folk have replied to you and I don't want to hound you, but really, have you seen how happy the smallest clubs are in the EoS? 

Exactly, any WRJFA clubs who are concerned the LL are only interested in the "Big Guns" go and look at the SOSFL and EOSFL which cater to multiple small clubs none of who have expressed a desire to leave the set up and none have been discarded from the set up.  Retaining SJFA membership was a condition the WRJFA wanted to allow clubs to play in the SJC exactly like Kelty can play in the Fife cup through FifeFA membership its not a safety blanket or a fall back it's simply for access to the SJC and optional for clubs joining if they want to keep SJFA membership.  Every club who meets the very basic criteria for the SOSFL/WOSFL/EOSFL will almost certainly be accepted in the set up.  

Out of interest have any clubs said they're not retaining SJFA membership when they join or are all intending to keep access to the Scottish Junior Cup?

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1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I guess Hurlford are the main one to watch now. They have tweeted this:

 

Regarding conferences, and bearing in mind the numbers of teams now applying, I think they should go for regionalisation at the lower levels. Otherwise, if the conferences are for one season only , the bottom teams in each conference could drop from Tier 6 to Tier 9 or 10 in one go. Seems harsh for perhaps one bad season.

If its 4 conferences, regionalisation would only drop them 2 tiers after one season, ie Tier 6 one league, Tier 7 one league, Tier 8 two regional leagues.

Edited by Doonhamer1969

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5 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

Exactly, any WRJFA clubs who are concerned the LL are only interested in the "Big Guns" go and look at the SOSFL and EOSFL which cater to multiple small clubs none of who have expressed a desire to leave the set up and none have been discarded from the set up.  Retaining SJFA membership was a condition the WRJFA wanted to allow clubs to play in the SJC exactly like Kelty can play in the Fife cup through FifeFA membership its not a safety blanket or a fall back it's simply for access to the SJC and optional for clubs joining if they want to keep SJFA membership.  Every club who meets the very basic criteria for the SOSFL/WOSFL/EOSFL will almost certainly be accepted in the set up.  

Out of interest have any clubs said they're not retaining SJFA membership when they join or are all intending to keep access to the Scottish Junior Cup?

Kilwinning and Clydebank are two, maybe 1 or 2 others

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