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Junior football, what is the future?

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5 minutes ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Have I got this correct.

Winners of the three tier 6 leagues (if lisenced) will have a 3 way play off, with the winner then facing bottom of the LL?

No,

If there are 3 licenced champions of the Tier 6 leagues they will have a playoff for automatic promotion.

2 licenced champions will have a two way playoff for automatic promotion

1 licenced champion will be automatically promoted

no licenced champions no promotion.

 

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18 hours ago, the rambler said:

I think that 5 Conferences are more likely to fit in all fixtures, presuming all 63 Clubs apply. 

My preference for seeding would be current League positions averaged to end of season as this is the most recent data available. 

Rank every Club in bands of 5 and draw one Club from each band. Unfortunately this may not provide local derbies which could at least generate some interest and bigger crowds amongst a load of unattractive fixtures. 

I wonder how the East got round achieving local derbies within the Conference structure? 

As i previously posted, judging by the amount of teams, it could go to 5 conferences, eg 5×13, or possibly some with 14 if more amateur teams apply.

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It's not about resignation: rather expulsion. Can they remain members under the current rules? If not, they can't have a vote on changing the rules!
If they all pay their dues then their all entitled to attend the AGM and attempt to change the rules accordingly. They can't be expelled at that stage as they won't have broken any rules to facilitate expulsion.

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16 hours ago, DiamondOwl said:

Why not? I’m for all clubs to be free to play at the level they wish to play it, in the league of their choice. Obviously,  so long as they are within the general  area (or the area is undefined) and that they qualify in terms of their infrastructure (including governance, ground and finance) to play in that league. The problem, as I see it,at the moment, is that the West region juniors have been left without any real choice.

They have a choice to stay junior if they want.

The clubs must talk to each other surely. If ,say 10-12, of them were adamant on remaining junior, they simply ignore Gordon Ronney, don't apply for the WoS and play in a rump WJ league next year.

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32 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

No,

If there are 3 licenced champions of the Tier 6 leagues they will have a playoff for automatic promotion.

2 licenced champions will have a two way playoff for automatic promotion

1 licenced champion will be automatically promoted

no licenced champions no promotion.

 

Cheers for clearing that up.

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7 hours ago, glensmad said:

I just wonder where the Scottish Junior Cup will be able to be fitted into the WoSFL schedule. At the LL-WoSFL information meeting it was made very clear that, while there is no obstacle on their side to the teams entering the SJC, the LL-WoSFL would insist that their fixtures would take priority, and the SJC would need to be scheduled into the international football calendar which all SFA leagues use.

Who will do that scheduling ?

With the potential of 30 or more league games, plus South Challenge Cup games, plus a potential West of Scotland League Cup, plus inevitable weather postponements, just where does the SJC fit in to the schedule ? Will it ultimately become a nuisance in the big scheme of things ? Will it have to become a midweek competition ? How practical or not would that be ?

In my opinion these are questions that need answered before clubs decide whether or not to enter it.

Certainly the earlier rounds where the majority of North and rump East clubs are still involved will be a nightmare to schedule if they draw a Senior club. The seniors will be required to prioritise their league and cup which will mainly have fixtures set months in advance. Thus, for example, Stonehaven v Largs in Round 1 could be sitting waiting to be played until Largs get knocked out of a senior cup or have a free Saturday ergo knocking the whole cup schedule out of whack.

Junior clubs should ensure that each round has a "must be played by" date and if the Senior club is unable to play a tie on a Saturday by that date they must then forfeit. 

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Certainly the earlier rounds where the majority of North and rump East clubs are still involved will be a nightmare to schedule if they draw a Senior club. The seniors will be required to prioritise their league and cup which will mainly have fixtures set months in advance. Thus, for example, Stonehaven v Largs in Round 1 could be sitting waiting to be played until Largs get knocked out of a senior cup or have a free Saturday ergo knocking the whole cup schedule out of whack.
Junior clubs should ensure that each round has a "must be played by" date and if the Senior club is unable to play a tie on a Saturday by that date they must then forfeit. 
Yep, that's a good example. It could become totally impractical and just a farce.

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7 hours ago, glensmad said:

I just wonder where the Scottish Junior Cup will be able to be fitted into the WoSFL schedule. At the LL-WoSFL information meeting it was made very clear that, while there is no obstacle on their side to the teams entering the SJC, the LL-WoSFL would insist that their fixtures would take priority, and the SJC would need to be scheduled into the international football calendar which all SFA leagues use...

My understanding is that there would only be the SCC and a league cup in terms of cups for the WoS. In addition to that the EoS has the Alex Jack Cup on Scottish Cup dates and the Football Nations Qualifying Cup. Using those dates should provide more than enough leeway to squeeze in the SJC, if there are no replays.

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3 minutes ago, Junior Pub League said:

 

Certainly the earlier rounds where the majority of North and rump East clubs are still involved will be a nightmare to schedule if they draw a Senior club. The seniors will be required to prioritise their league and cup which will mainly have fixtures set months in advance. Thus, for example, Stonehaven v Largs in Round 1 could be sitting waiting to be played until Largs get knocked out of a senior cup or have a free Saturday ergo knocking the whole cup schedule out of whack.

Junior clubs should ensure that each round has a "must be played by" date and if the Senior club is unable to play a tie on a Saturday by that date they must then forfeit. 

The first couple of rounds can be slotted into the calendar on the same dates as the SFA Scottish Cup just like the Alex Jack Cup & Alba Cup. The problem comes in the shape of Banks O'Dee and Girvan with potential Junior qualifiers, and then longer term more SFA members.

The prestige of the cup will take a hit. For example in the SCC when a game can't be played they can move the date to that of the next round since that's set aside. Which means you can have say 3rd & 4th round games all happening on the same day. So cups draws become X v. Y or Z and A v. B or C and you have no idea when games will be played. They then catch up to the main draw later in the season.

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On 31/03/2020 at 16:48, DiamondOwl said:

You're right. But I think that was before the deal keeping the clubs in the junior cup. I very much doubt they'll be enough left for a league. Without the ERSJFA stepping in to offer some clubs a home, the announcements will keep coming and the choice for the individual clubs will become non-existent.

West Lothian teams could form a new 'Central' JFA with any West juniors who didn't apply, leaving Tayside Juniors as East.

Edited by Doonhamer1969

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My understanding is that there would only be the SCC and a league cup in terms of cups for the WoS. In addition to that the EoS has the Alex Jack Cup on Scottish Cup dates and the Football Nations Qualifying Cup. Using those dates should provide more than enough leeway to squeeze in the SJC, if there are no replays.
I'm just thinking of how it is in the West juniors at the moment. Once the Sectional League Cup is out of the way (basically a pre-season and midweek tournament anyway), there are only two cups, i.e. the WoS Cup and the SJC. At the point of the season being suspended, some teams still had half of their league fixtures to play, and were still in these two cups.

If that is replicated under the new WoSFL, i.e. two cups (SCC and a League Cup), with also 30 league fixtures to play (perhaps more depending on the size of the conferences), then I just don't see how the Scottish Junior Cup ties will get played, when it has been made clear that the WoSFL competitions must take priority.

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7 hours ago, glensmad said:
7 hours ago, GordonS said:
Anyone still think there's a chance of any of the 20 clubs who haven't yet declared remaining in the WRSJFA?
This was over as soon as Romney and the LL reached an agreement.

Gordon Ronney's own club (Kilbirnie Ladeside) still haven't officially declared that they are applying, unless I've missed it somewhere.

Gordon Ronney is the club's Secretary. Seems clear what the club's intentions are:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-pyramid-masterplan-agreed-juniors-21753119

SPFL pyramid masterplan agreed as Juniors get set to move en-masse to new West League

 

By   Fraser Wilson    14:33, 25 MAR 2020    Updated15:02, 25 MAR 2020

“Kilbirnie Ladeside were one of the driving forces behind Junior clubs being allowed to retain membership of the SJFA in the new set-up.

Spokesman Gordon Ronney was central to the talks. And he said: “Kilbirnie have said from day one that we were pro-pyramid. That’s where we need to be to progress as a club.

“We need to be part of the structure of Scottish football. We also believe we need to keep our heritage and that lies within the junior association.

“You should never forget where you come from but that doesn’t mean you don’t buy into other ideas.

“There was a gap in the pyramid in the west and hopefully we plug that gap.

“Kilbirnie were formed in 1901 and I have always maintained we are only temporary custodians. We can’t make rash decisions that jeopardises that history.

“I am confident we have achieved that. We will add value to the SFA’s masterplan I firmly believe that.

“Over time the stronger west clubs will work their way through the system and push people at SPFL League 2 to get in that door.””

Edited by Dev
.

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Think there are probably a few more that already did their announcement that they were going for WoS entry in a similar sort of way to that at the expression of interest stage. There was also a North Lanarkshire newspaper story at that stage with quotes from various clubs that might be worth revisiting, if anyone has the url. Wishaw for example, were said to be leaving the decision to their secretary.

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18 minutes ago, glensmad said:

... then I just don't see how the Scottish Junior Cup ties will get played, when it has been made clear that the WoSFL competitions must take priority.

In the EoS this season they had 30 or 34 league games scheduled along with SC/AJC, SCC, LC and FNC. HibeeJibee will be able to sort it all out.

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25 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

West Lothian teams could form a new 'Central' JFA with any West juniors who didn't apply., leaving Tayside Juniors as East.

Absolutely. I do think this would be the best option all round. But are they willing to do this? Perhaps they don't want to say anything until a club or two asks them. 

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In the EoS this season they had 30 or 34 league games scheduled along with SC/AJC, SCC, LC and FNC. HibeeJibee will be able to sort it all out.
Fair enough, if it is do-able then all is well.

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21 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

In the EoS this season they had 30 or 34 league games scheduled along with SC/AJC, SCC, LC and FNC. HibeeJibee will be able to sort it all out.

  • SC/AJC - set dates for every round
  • SCC - set dates for every round
  • LC - 2nd & 3rd round with no set dates only to be played sometime between Sep-Nov 2019. Before COVID19 was largely behind the set schedule.
  • FNC - 1st Round with no set date. Before COVID19 was behind the set dates it did have due to weather postponements.

Both the LC and FNC would have been completed on time, but once those dates have been missed for whatever reason (weather postponement, Scottish Cup run) those cups get shifted to fit wherever they can in the calendar later on. Also made that much easier by being cups involving a single league body and limited travel in comparison to a national multi-league competition.

 

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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16 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think there are probably a few more that already did their announcement that they were going for WoS entry in a similar sort of way to that at the expression of interest stage. There was also a North Lanarkshire newspaper story at that stage with quotes from various clubs that might be worth revisiting, if anyone has the url. Wishaw for example, were said to be leaving the decision to their secretary.

Things have moved fast since the 24th March meeting of the Lowland/EoS/SoS/ leagues and the West Juniors and there seems to be general agreement that some clubs which were not keen to move will be swayed by what others do. Some negative statements of a few weeks ago may have been over-taken by events since?

Time alone will tell and some clubs won't feel the need to make public statements at all - Kilbirnie maybe wouldn't need to - and could be similar to other clubs which have people who run the West Juniors e.g. Cumnock, Ardrossan Winton Rovers, St Anthony's.  

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8 hours ago, glensmad said:
8 hours ago, GordonS said:
Anyone still think there's a chance of any of the 20 clubs who haven't yet declared remaining in the WRSJFA?
This was over as soon as Romney and the LL reached an agreement.

Gordon Ronney's own club (Kilbirnie Ladeside) still haven't officially declared that they are applying, unless I've missed it somewhere.

Do you think they won't apply?

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