Junior football, what is the future?

[AML67]

On 03/04/2020 at 12:00, Doonhamer1969 said:

It's true that they can access Ayrshire pretty quickly, but they would lose games at Creetown, Wigtown , Stranraer, Kirkcudbright etc, all within around 25 miles. Just cant see it.

Even Girvan, the nearest West club to them is 30 miles away, and thats not a great road.

Stranraer yes at the moment certainly  ! Hold your horses with the rest 

[San Starko Rover]

There is more to club licencing than just stadium facilities. It is not the ground which gets a licence, it is the club.

 

Obviously but if you’re Yoker and playing at a ground the Bankies have made compliant for Scottish Cup football it’d be a strange decision to not try and do the other 2/3rds work required to gain a licence. The obvious thing to do would be both teams work together to ensure they both get a licence and the benefits it entails and for the Stadium work cost is then halved. While other work is involved in gaining a licence youth, community etc the biggest outlay financially must be the stadium and floodlights.

[FairWeatherFan]

20 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Correct, postponements will be the issue. However a number of clubs will be out of the SCC by the time Junior Cup games are likely to get postponed - since the SCC will have an extra round - so gaps will open up.

The Second Round of the Junior Cup was played across 4 different weekends. The first attempt to be played was on the 28th September and saw 14 ties postponed. You can't really tell when postponements are going to come.

[Stag Nation]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The Second Round of the Junior Cup was played across 4 different weekends. The first attempt to be played was on the 28th September and saw 14 ties postponed. You can't really tell when postponements are going to come.

Just out of curiousity, why were they postponed?

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Just out of curiousity, why were they postponed?

No idea.

EDIT: Quick look at Matches off thread for 28/9 there seems to have been heavy rain that weekend. Wishaw v Culter was postponed days before due to an arson attack.

Edited April 6, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[Lowland team]

58 minutes ago, AML67 said:

So you’re effectively saying they don’t deserve their current status , you firmly believe they are too weak to compete but you’re advocating they all jump into the WOSFL en masse and are in all probability comprehensively beaten on a regular basis by the better Junior sides ? Good thinking Batman and you’ll also expect everyone currently in the Senior ranks to just simply accept this point of view and be happy to do so now the Junior Clubs have at long last embraced the Pyramid !  I firmly believe this will happen and possibly sooner rather than later but to be told that’s the way it should in the blink of an eye isn't too appealing and you honestly think a long trip to the Glasgow area to take on one of the less famous names on a bleak Winters night is an appealingly carrot for those perhaps not fancying almost 200 mile round trips anytime let alone potentially on a Wednesday ?  

A wee bit harsh with that thinking.the sos have been playing at teir 6 for a number of years now.the wos has not even started!!! yet.but people still want to have ago at changing things.when since 2012 this prymid  was first talked and all we got from meetings with the sjfa their clubs have no interest in it.now it seems they want to take it over and run it.lets just be happy the west clubs are now finally on board.lets turn our attention to the north.

[Robert James]

9 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Lets just be happy the west clubs are now finally on board.lets turn our attention to the north.

Agreed

[Pyramidic]

15 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Lets just be happy the west clubs are now finally on board.lets turn our attention to the north.

The other huge issue that is now going to emerge is the promotion/relegation arrangements between the Tier 6 Leagues and the Lowland League. To date the Lowland League have been a model of efficiency, fairness and inventiveness. But they currently have an unfortunate Achilles heel with just one relegation spot. Soon we will have our next battle to achieve fair and sustainable promotion/relegation arrangements between Tier 5 and Tier 6.

[honestman54]

8 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

The other huge issue that is now going to emerge is the promotion/relegation arrangements between the Tier 6 Leagues and the Lowland League. To date the Lowland League have been a model of efficiency, fairness and inventiveness. But they currently have an unfortunate Achilles heel with just one relegation spot. Soon we will have our next battle to achieve fair and sustainable promotion/relegation arrangements between Tier 5 and Tier 6.

How would it work in your opinion if we had an automatic relegation spot and a play off spot (e.g two potential relegation spots) from the LL?

[Lowland team]

Relegation promotion. Until the spfl open up automatic ventilation at their end i dont see the lowland league relegating 2 clubs and why should they if their champion gets beaten in the play off and the spfl club gets relegated it means 1 more club drops down so inefect that would be 3 clubs.

[Pyramidic]

Teams 15 and 16 relegated from the Lowland League.
Team 14 participate in the Relegation/ Promotion playoff.

WoSFL champions promoted 

EoSFL champions promoted 

Promotion  / Relegation playoff

- LL team 14

- WoSFL runners up

- EoSFL runners up

- SOSFL champions

(All participants to be licensed)

[glensmad]

Teams 15 and 16 relegated from the Lowland League.
Team 14 participate in the Relegation/ Promotion playoff.
WoSFL champions promoted 
EoSFL champions promoted 
Promotion  / Relegation playoff
- LL team 14
- WoSFL runners up
- EoSFL runners up
- SOSFL champions
(All participants to be licensed)

I can't see the SoSFL agreeing to that.

[EdinburghBlue]

All that needs to be said in response to this.
Proportion of part-time SPFL clubs who've gone bust in the last 10 years = 0.00.
Proportion of old firm clubs who've gone bust in the last 10 years = 0.50.

(Pedantry...) Surely 0.33 of the Old Firm clubs have gone bust in the last 10 years?

[Pyramidic]

5 minutes ago, glensmad said:

11 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Teams 15 and 16 relegated from the Lowland League.
Team 14 participate in the Relegation/ Promotion playoff.
WoSFL champions promoted 
EoSFL champions promoted 
Promotion  / Relegation playoff
- LL team 14
- WoSFL runners up
- EoSFL runners up
- SOSFL champions
(All participants to be licensed)

I can't see the SoSFL agreeing to that.

The SoSFL will carry far more weight in future negotiations than equates with their current playing standards. I hope there is room for compromise but I take your point. What would you suggest as a way forward?

[Guest]

Teams 15 and 16 relegated from the Lowland League.
Team 14 participate in the Relegation/ Promotion playoff.
WoSFL champions promoted 
EoSFL champions promoted 
Promotion  / Relegation playoff
- LL team 14
- WoSFL runners up
- EoSFL runners up
- SOSFL champions
(All participants to be licensed)

Nothing gives the eos or wos the divine right to have the automatic promotion places over the sos.

Each association has their place at tier 6. It causes no harm for it to remain that way. The sos at tier 6 doesn't impact on anything or are we genuinely now saying that because some don't think they merit a spot at the table they dont get to keep one?

[parsforlife]

20 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Teams 15 and 16 relegated from the Lowland League.
Team 14 participate in the Relegation/ Promotion playoff.

WoSFL champions promoted 

EoSFL champions promoted 

Promotion  / Relegation playoff

- LL team 14

- WoSFL runners up

- EoSFL runners up

- SOSFL champions

(All participants to be licensed)

A play off containing LL clubs is unworkable just now. We wouldn’t know who the club was until after the spfl play-offs were concluded. 3/4 weeks after the end of the season.

[Ginaro]

14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The Second Round of the Junior Cup was played across 4 different weekends. The first attempt to be played was on the 28th September and saw 14 ties postponed. You can't really tell when postponements are going to come.

True but they are more likely to come in late Autumn, by which time a few SCC rounds will have taken place and freed up some clubs. This season some of the outstanding ties that you mention could've been played on the next SCC round two weeks later if the west team was out of that cup.

@Stag Nation most of the postponements were in the North so guessing weather related, KRR had a ground sharing clash (this would surely be moved to a Sunday or another ground next season), and Wishaw's changing rooms were burnt down in the week before their game.

[Robert James]

22 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Relegation promotion. Until the spfl open up automatic ventilation at their end i dont see the lowland league relegating 2 clubs and why should they if their champion gets beaten in the play off and the spfl club gets relegated it means 1 more club drops down so inefect that would be 3 clubs.

 

Moving to an 18 club Lowland League, would offset the threat of one extra relegation spot (in tandem with 2 clubs being promoted from Tier 6 to the LL).  Having 34 league games per season, is certainly manageable.

However, I would only support this, if the SPFL agreed that "club 42" would be automatically relegated, and replaced by the LL/HFL play-off winners.

Of course this may get overtaken by an SPFL restructuring. 

[parsforlife]

1 minute ago, Ginaro said:

True but they are more likely to come in late Autumn, by which time a few SCC rounds will have taken place and freed up some clubs. This season some of the outstanding ties that you mention could've been played on the next SCC round two weeks later if the west team was out of that cup.

@Stag Nation most of the postponements were in the North so guessing weather related, KRR had a ground sharing clash (this would surely be moved to a Sunday or another ground next season), and Wishaw's changing rooms were burnt down in the week before their game.

I think relaying on clubs getting knocked out of other cups so another can run smoothly is unlikely. The clubs likely to succeed in one are likely to succeed in the other.  Unless you set up formal arrangements where you don’t enter one until your out the other which I can’t see happening here.

[San Starko Rover]

Nothing gives the eos or wos the divine right to have the automatic promotion places over the sos.

Each association has their place at tier 6. It causes no harm for it to remain that way. The sos at tier 6 doesn't impact on anything or are we genuinely now saying that because some don't think they merit a spot at the table they dont get to keep one?

I’ve stated a few pages back that I think the SOSFL and WOSFL should be merged but as long as we have a separate SOSFL they should be treated equally to the EOSFL and WOSFL. They either merit the place or they don’t. The same as the LL and HL are equal.