Junior football, what is the future?

[San Starko Rover]

2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

 

And why the assumption that the SoS would feed the WoS anyway, not the EoS? That's not something that's been the case before. The SoS area is a distinct area - six of its clubs are around or east of Dumfries. Journey times from Dumfries to:

Hurlford 1hr 21

Pollok 1hr 34

Beith 1hr 46

Kilwinning 1hr 38

Girvan 1hr 45

Cumbernauld 1hr 31

----

Penicuik 1hr 28

Blackburn 1hr 33

Camelon 1 hr 38

Crossgates 1hr 58

 

There's not much in it.

 

Mostly because the League is in the South WEST of Scotland 

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

I could tell you were going here three posts ago.

 

In the set up at the time they were. They did right by the pyramid that was being put in place and deserve to remain tier 6. They cause no harm to anyone sitting where they sit right now, they dont stop anyone playing or gaining promotion. If their champion wins the playoff, after winning their league, they will deserve to play in the LL.

 

Are they meant to now step aside because 'the better teams are here', if they are so far below the level why do they need to move. If they are that irrelevant then they will not beat any west or east champion, so they arent causing anyone any harm where they are.

 

"They did right by the pyramid" by a bunch of their clubs applying to join the LL and tacking themselves on as tier 6 because they happened to be a senior league as opposed to a junior league?

They shouldn't step aside. No one should step aside or be demoted or anything like that. The purpose of a pyramid is so teams can find their level. A pyramid gets wider as it goes down the way. There's room for more regional football if that's what a club's level is. That's not at step 6 when you have a much larger league by number of clubs, population or geographic area at the same tier which has a geographic overlap with the SoS.

I wish no harm to the SoS teams - they are run by hard working volunteers who want to enjoy their football and see their teams succeed. That's commendable, but it doesn't mean they should be a small regional league of amateur teams at step 6 in our pyramid structure.

[EdinburghBlue]

By South East do you mean the Borders? That'd be because they had the EoSFL. In fact it was the EOSFL that attracted Annan, Threave, Dalbeattie and Gretna at various points. Then Ayrshire as we know was a Junior football hotbed.

Essentially showing the need for a lowland league.

[LongTimeLurker]

6 minutes ago, Mr Happy said:

The virus will dictate, not humans. Pointless trying to second guess this horrible killer.

 

China has shown that the virus can be close to eliminated from a society by a concerted effort by humans and huge efforts are going into developing a vaccine. There are better days coming and we are not helpless in the face of it. It's reasonable to keep making plans for 2020-21 and doing so is probably good for people's mental well being.

[Marshmallo]

5 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

This is an utterly pointless argument, but I will indulge you.

Pre-LL, the Sos and Eos were at the only level of senior football below the SFL. Whether you called that "Tier 5", "Tier X"  or anything else was and is irrelevant, because there was no pyramid.

In those days, when vacancies occurred in the SFL, clubs from the EoS (e.g. Ferranti Thistle) and SoS (e.g. Gretna) could apply and were accepted. [Or indeed clubs from neither, like Clydebank.]

With the establishmant of the pyramid  they cannot, so they have de-facto moved down a level.

By definition it's not "tier 5" if it was not part of the pyramid structure. The whole point in tiers of a football pyramid is that there is movement between them vertically based on merit in an integrated structure.

There was no moving down a level. They continued to exist as a league outside of the pyramid. Then the SoS joined the pyramid at tier 6. The SoS League has never been above tier 6 in the pyramid.

I will say it again - I do not want these clubs to drop down any levels or be demoted. They should be merging with the WoS and participating in conferences at tier 6 next season IMO.

Why are people so wedded to "they were in fae the start!"? The Junioristas on here got panned for the Grade chat. This SoS being bastions of the pyramid and unable to be questioned or discussed in a grown up way is analogous to Gradeism.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Essentially showing the need for a lowland league.

Pretty much.

When Airdrieonians went bust, and the SFL decided to elect an English FA member over longstanding SFA members. I though the EoS Premier should basically be rebranded as a Lowland League to be the counterpart to the Highland League. At the time you had Annan and Threave in the EoS Premier and the recently joined Dalbeattie were still down in the EoS First. It already had the best of the "Lowlands" senior football wise.

[bigdaddieb]

On twitter from East Kilbride Thistle

[glensmad]

Will there be a next season? Are you party to the timescale of the lock down?

Are you suggesting that we are on lockdown forever and there will never be a "next season" ? [emoji849]

[San Starko Rover]

1 minute ago, glensmad said:

Are you suggesting that we are on lockdown forever and there will never be a "next season" ?

Rangers have banned it to ensure Celtic can never beat 9IAR

[Guest]

"They did right by the pyramid" by a bunch of their clubs applying to join the LL and tacking themselves on as tier 6 because they happened to be a senior league as opposed to a junior league?
They shouldn't step aside. No one should step aside or be demoted or anything like that. The purpose of a pyramid is so teams can find their level. A pyramid gets wider as it goes down the way. There's room for more regional football if that's what a club's level is. That's not at step 6 when you have a much larger league by number of clubs, population or geographic area at the same tier which has a geographic overlap with the SoS.
I wish no harm to the SoS teams - they are run by hard working volunteers who want to enjoy their football and see their teams succeed. That's commendable, but it doesn't mean they should be a small regional league of amateur teams at step 6 in our pyramid structure.

I never said anything about the sosfl being regional, the regional set up is in place already....hence why we have an sos, eos and wos divide in the lowland area, step 6 is where that regional divide happens already, I didn't choose that to be the case the equal players in tbe process did (collective agreement - which is what would be required to change it, not pie and bovril)

I have no in depth knowledge of the sosfl standards or in fact what their clubs aspirations are in the short, medium and longer term, but what I will say is that they bought into the pyramid at its inception and should maintain their spot at tier 6, they dont do any harm where they are.

You have a differing point of view, I dont think they tacked on anywhere, they became involved in the pyramid when the sjfa didn't (in actual fact downright undermining it at every chance they could to make their own product sound and look better) at its inception, they and the eos weakened their individual products to get the pyramid going.....therefore they did right by the pyramid.

[glensmad]

Rangers have banned it to ensure Celtic can never beat 9IAR

If Rangers have their way "this season" won't exist either. [emoji6]

[San Starko Rover]

Just now, glensmad said:

If Rangers have their way "this season" won't exist either.

With our one point advantage over Falkirk we're 100% behind Celtics call to let the table stand .  Whatever happens with this season I just hope our clubs and fans come through this shit-storm.  

[Doonhamer1969]

4 hours ago, G4Mac said:

And the LL already highlighted that said geographical integrity would be maintained through this process. There was also no mention if the sosfl being demoted to bring the juniors on board.

Just because they may cover a small area and may not have many teams who will want to play in the LL or get a licence, doesnt mean they should step aside and lose the place they have fought very long and very hard to achieve.

The sosfl is where it is on merit, it is where it is as it bought into the pyramid at the inception of said pyramid.

It isnt doing any club or other association any harm where it resides at tier 6, it doesnt have to move anywhere for the pyramid to work properly, it also provides a landing league for LL clubs who came from it to form the LL (weakening the sosfl in the process just to get the LL up and running because others turned their nose up at the very suggestion of a footballing pyramid)

 

3 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

How does the SOS teams being part of the WOS provide a glass ceiling? They are in the South West of Scotland, if they covered the SOS they would include the East border teams, in reality they are a D&G  league and they're not at tier 6 on merit they're at tier 6 because they bought in early to the pyramid.  How many SOS teams are in the LL I count two one of which is based in Motherwell and I doubt will want to play in D&G league once the WOS is established if they're relegated.  By all means leave them where they are but what scored do you think we'll see when Bo'ness and Talbot play the SOS champions, what was Kelty's score 7-0 & 4-0

There's 2 , Dalbeattie Star and Gretna 2008.

Kelty beat Threave 4-0(a) and 6-0(h) in the play off.

[San Starko Rover]

3 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

 

There's 2 , Dalbeattie Star and Gretna 2008.

Kelty beat Threave 4-0(a) and 6-0(h) in the play off.

Gretna were EOSFL 

[VodkaTap]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

People tend to forget with everything that's changed. Threave Rovers plan was to come back into the Lowland League. They spent a couple of seasons as the whipping boys, accepted relegation as a chance to rebuild and refresh the team with some winning ways. Come back up as a a reasonably decent team to challenge for mid table.

This was summer 2016 the Lowland League would be filled to 16 teams, the Juniors weren't interested and the EoSFL had been gutted of most of their licenced clubs. It would of been a relatively clear pathway back to the Lowland League. The problem was in the two seasons it took to get a winning team together. They would enter a playoff against the Kelty buzzsaw.

I have followed this thread from it's inception and it has been a very interesting read ! 

As far as I remember, at the time of Threave moving back to the SoS, they were at the start  or in the middle of a large spend on both the changing rooms & attached social club. Money can only be spent once so I suspect the money pot went on that rather than the team. Therefore the cost of travelling would certainly have been a factor in their decision making. This I reckon was a factor when they came up against the Kelty juggernaut !

Another issue is the size of the pool of quality players down in D & G - It is not large.    Most of the quality players have at one time or another played for all three of Threave, Dalbeattie & Gretna 2008. This is before you start to include the bigger SoS teams. Probably enough to make one - maybe two really good teams but they tend to get shared with the inevitable result having teams of average quality.

I have not yet seen a reason as to why some people suggest there should only be two feeders into the the LL ? Is it simply because it looks neater ?? Is it a hark back to the Junior powerhouses of East v West ?? As football goes in cycles, no team ever stays or at the top and odd results do happen so it is no great inconvience to anyone that they remain a Tier 6 league

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Great, then the likes of "Creetown" could find their level in a regional league within a WoS set up if some travel is going to kill them.

Where is the line showing where the WoS ends and SoS begins on a map? Presumably there is a designated point where one becomes the other if you can advise there are only two anomalies?

The local authority boundary of Dumfries and Galloway.

14/15 teams in the SoS are currently within that boundary, or play their home games within it.

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

The local authority boundary of Dumfries and Galloway.

14/15 teams in the SoS are currently within that boundary, or play their home games within it.

13 braves reserves and bonnyton dont 

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, Lowland team said:

Instead of trying to change everything before the wosfl is up and running.lets just continue to get it sorted.

That is pretty much exactly what I'm saying.

Get one thing sorted at a time. No need to complicate matters.

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, honestman54 said:

Slightly off the discussion, ive never understood why the SOS seemed to only attract clubs from the South West and not all the way across the South of Scotland to the South east.

The geography of the country is quite deceptive. Berwick's Shielfield Park (55.76^o N) is fractionally further North than East Kilbride's K Park (55.75^o N) 

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Why are Bonnyton in it? Why were Talbot pointed in the direction of the SoS when they made enquiries about a license? Weren't East Kilbride meant to be playing in the SoS before the Lowland League was formed?

I'll agree with you there on one thing. Bonnyton shouldn't really have been in it.