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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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I like this idea especially as the Scottish is tiny then you’d have a f**k off big one for the non league teams while Celtic lift a tiny one.
 
Suggestion for new cup name : The Auchinleck Talbot, lets be honest they’re pure gonna dominate it anyway Cup

People getting too hung up on which side made concession here. Let’s move on and see who applies, I doubt it’ll be every team so a WRJFA will need to remain for those that don’t. Interesting to see how the SJC lasts as a high profile tournament, will other Non league clubs join it or even be welcome to? Or will it fade overtime as clubs see it as a fixture congestion. Only time will tell on that one.

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16 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Sorry it doesn't work like that.board members serve 2 years then need to be voted back on.the wosfl will need a delegate for the non professional game board and another one for the Congress both these posts are for 1year then they need to be elected again.they will also need reps for the 4 league meetings.that was one of the blocks.they just wanted to give the now premier league.but wrjfa wanted to run everything under that.

no agreed Lowland, we know the power struggling for the past few years and how its changed and adapted and I know what I said wont happen but that would put an end to it and eventually clubs wouldn't think of themselves as junior but as a club in the pyramid system trying to progress.

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11 hours ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

I'm away to put on a correct score of Kilwinning 18 Ardeer 0.

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2 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

I'm away to put on a correct score of Kilwinning 18 Ardeer 0.

Just a thought but would lower ranked current WRSJFA sides maybe decide to sit out the Conference season and remain Junior for next season and then be quite comfortable joining the WoSL at the lowest tier in the following season?

 

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3 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

I'm away to put on a correct score of Kilwinning 18 Ardeer 0.

Could only manage 9-0 in the Sectional. Yoker beat them 11-0 in the League

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9 hours ago, GordonS said:

Nice.

That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.

Might need to stay flexible on the format?

Clubs still have to apply.

What's the odds on all 63 West Juniors actually applying by the 7th April ?

I just can't see it.

In light of yesterday's events I'll go for 4 14 team conferences, with one rump league left playing West SJFA, maybe 10 teams.

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Progressive clubs "with a positive eye for the future" who will be part of the launch of the newly constituted WoSFL:


1. Clydebank (SJFA West Region Premiership)

2. Kilwinning Rangers (SJFA West Region Premiership)

3. Rutherglen Glencairn (SJFA West Region Premiership)

4. Bellshill Athletic (SJFA West League One)

5. Drumchapel United PYM (Central Scottish Amateur Premier Division)

6. Neilston Juniors (SJFA West Region Championship)

7. Maryhill (SJFA West League One)

8. Kello Rovers (SJFA West League One)

9. Blantyre Victoria (SJFA West Region Championship)

10. Kirkintilloch Rob Roy (SJFA West Region Premiership)


More formal applicants to follow to be added to the growing list!

Edited by Pyramidic

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9 hours ago, glensmad said:
9 hours ago, GordonS said:
Nice.
That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.
Might need to stay flexible on the format?

And then the Scottish Junior Cup thrown in as well for the teams who choose to be in it ? Just seems like a competition too far in my personal opinion.

Yup.

Just too many games.

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3 minutes ago, PastyMan said:

Just a thought but would lower ranked current WRSJFA sides maybe decide to sit out the Conference season and remain Junior for next season and then be quite comfortable joining the WoSL at the lowest tier in the following season?

 

Some of the lower ranked teams have applied. Likely to be worried they'll be left to wither on the vine otherwise.

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8 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Seeing Meadow have posted this on FB:

 

 

Good stuff.

Gives their shareholders absolute clarity.

Honest and straight to the point.

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9 minutes ago, RedEd said:

Some of the lower ranked teams have applied. Likely to be worried they'll be left to wither on the vine otherwise.

 

9 minutes ago, RedEd said:

Some of the lower ranked teams have applied. Likely to be worried they'll be left to wither on the vine otherwise.

I'll have £2 on +55 applications

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37 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Sorry it doesn't work like that.board members serve 2 years then need to be voted back on.the wosfl will need a delegate for the non professional game board and another one for the Congress both these posts are for 1year then they need to be elected again.they will also need reps for the 4 league meetings.that was one of the blocks.they just wanted to give the now premier league.but wrjfa wanted to run everything under that.

The WOSFL hasn't even been formed yet. How can you possibly know what the rules about board member re-election will be?

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11 minutes ago, PastyMan said:

Just a thought but would lower ranked current WRSJFA sides maybe decide to sit out the Conference season and remain Junior for next season and then be quite comfortable joining the WoSL at the lowest tier in the following season?

Think the mentality should be to try to do what Crossgates Primrose did in the east.

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19 hours ago, glensmad said:

Yes, it was agreed in principle at the SJFA Management meeting last week, however it is the clubs who ultimately will have the final say at the AGM or an EGM.

Remember that there are 70 junior teams outwith the West Region and only 63 teams in the West Region, so if the non-West teams don't vote for the changes then the idea would be scuppered. I do expect the changes to be approved, though.

So far, 6 of the 70 have said they are leaving to join the EOS (presumably this means resigning from the SJFA like previous movers) and some others south of the Tay may also leave. That means the West could have a majority to vote through any changes.

The statement says WOS league fixtures have priority, so when does a replay between a WOS and North Region team get played? Unless of course replays and two legged semis are scrapped. In which case you basically have two competitions which are converging in terms of number of teams competing and their rules. The Junior Cup will have around 125 and the SCC will have 133+ if all clubs move to the WOS.

The question is, how many WOS applicants will want to keep their SJFA membership to play in the Junior Cup when there will be fewer clubs and no east clubs in the competition while the likelihood of loss-making trips away to Tayside/North teams increases? Already seen Kilwinning and presumably Clydebank say they're not playing.

5 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

It's not a fallacy though is it? The Junior Cup is the best tournament in non-SPFL football aside from the senior Scottish Cup. Nothing wrong with retaining a link to the past as we move into the future.

Get every team from tier 5 down into an all-in cup tournament and retain the Junior name and trophy. Retire the South Challenge Cup.

Think we all want a non-league trophy, but IMO the ball is in the SJFA's court and they need to decide what to do with the Junior Cup. Because history and prestige can only last so long when its numbers are reducing and the SCC might overtake it in terms of clubs if everyone applies. Allow/invite non-members to take part, increase travel guarantees so clubs can go to/from the north without losing as much money.

4 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I think Rob Roy will be the first ever team from East Dunbartonshire to play in a senior league. I think that would leave Argyll & Bute, Na h-Eileanan Siar (Western Isles), Shetland and Orkney as the only ones who have still never had a team in a senior league.

Orkney play in the North Caledonian League.

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5 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

So far, 6 of the 70 have said they are leaving to join the EOS (presumably this means resigning from the SJFA like previous movers) and some others south of the Tay may also leave. That means the West could have a majority to vote through any changes.

The statement says WOS league fixtures have priority, so when does a replay between a WOS and North Region team get played? Unless of course replays and two legged semis are scrapped. In which case you basically have two competitions which are converging in terms of number of teams competing and their rules. The Junior Cup will have around 125 and the SCC will have 133+ if all clubs move to the WOS.

The question is, how many WOS applicants will want to keep their SJFA membership to play in the Junior Cup when there will be fewer clubs and no east clubs in the competition while the likelihood of loss-making trips away to Tayside/North teams increases? Already seen Kilwinning and presumably Clydebank say they're not playing.

Think we all want a non-league trophy, but IMO the ball is in the SJFA's court and they need to decide what to do with the Junior Cup. Because history and prestige can only last so long when its numbers are reducing and the SCC might overtake it in terms of clubs if everyone applies. Allow/invite non-members to take part, increase travel guarantees so clubs can go to/from the north without losing as much money.

Orkney play in the North Caledonian League.

8 out of 70 have applied to the EOS. I suspect they can't have resigned from the SJFA yet as the season hasn't officially finished so will they want/be allowed to keep their membership. 

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Just now, patriot1 said:

8 out of 70 have applied to the EOS. I suspect they can't have resigned from the SJFA yet as the season hasn't officially finished so will they want/be allowed to keep their membership. 

The EoS sides they want to play against are in the South Challenge Cup, Qualifying Cup, League Cup, King Cup and Alex Jack Cup. Where would they fit in the Junior Cup?

If they do a Threave/Dalbeattie in the EoS and only play in the SCC and League Cup. Then they're giving up on competitions most of the clubs around them will be playing in, which impacts league scheduling and they would miss out on a chance of trophies they can actually win.

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7 hours ago, Stag Nation said:

But wasn't it also stated that the members would elect their own management committee?

AIUI the new league will be independent, with help from - but not run by - the LL. If that's the case, surely they can make up their own minds about cups.

I thought the case was that the LL will run it for the first year, then a new committee would be elected to run it.

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2 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

I thought the case was that the LL will run it for the first year, then a new committee would be elected to run it.

My understanding is that the EoS & LL would do the admin but actual decisions would be made by the member clubs.

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7 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

If all or most of the west juniors join the WSOL, including presumably Bonyton and perhaps a couple of other SOS teams, any mileage in merging the SOS with the WSOL?

Now would be the time to do it. If enough teams join It may be desirable to make WSOL bottom tiers  regional, and that is where most SOS teams would end up anyway. 

It would make the play-offs to the LL a bit more balanced and fairer if nothing else.

Just putting it out there.

Get the  WoS up and running first. That discussion is for another day .

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