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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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Happy for the west clubs, even happier if the sjfa dont get their hands near anything to do with the pyramid or involved in running anything other than a regional cup.

I dont get why clubs would want to keep sjfa membership or play in the junior cup, it was never a big deal for me when I was playing, more of a distraction that held up you season and ensured you were going to play sat, mon, wed, sat, but it is what it is.

The whole what draws a bigger crowd argument also means little to me, it proves nothing about a competition in the grand scheme of things.

Good that the west clubs are being given a choice to join, concerned for those that dont apply, where do they play?

Anyway, it's good to see that there will be a west balance in the pyramid, also good to see conferences for year one so that clubs have a chance to progress forward, it really will be game on when football returns, no pressure but there will undoubtedly be surprises along the way.

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17 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Looks like a reasonable compromise. Are we all happy?

It's a fair enough compromise in my opinion, but you should know by now that on this thread it will never happen that everyone is happy. ;) 

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I find your lack of comprehension somewhat disturbing. Perhaps this isn’t the subject for you.
Aye, to be fair I hadn't read the full thing properly. - I assumed they were still after the all-in solution while saying that clubs didn't have to apply, then someone else said that teams who didn't apply wouldn't be able to get promoted, making it appear that everyone would be in the new set up with some in a half-in, half-out position. I've read it properly now though and clearly they still aren't going for an official all-in or none-in position (although they seem to be lobbying every club to get them to join) so if there are any hold outs like the West Lothian clubs they'll be Juniors outside the pyramid. It'll be interesting to see if anyone wants to do that, or if the continued membership of the association and entry to the Junior Cup with sway them. If it does, will the SJFA extend that option to the West Lothian clubs and try to get them into the EoS League in the last season of conferences there?
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I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

Edited by the rambler
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I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 
I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.
I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 
Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc
Conference A
Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior
Conference B
Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior
Conf C
Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior
Conf D
Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior
 
 
You should send that on to George Fraser, it'll save him the bother.
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44 minutes ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

That looks pretty decent in fairness

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1 hour ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

Nice.

That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.

Might need to stay flexible on the format?

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1 hour ago, the rambler said:

I posted earlier that I am not a fan of Conferences and should be merit based. However, the decision has been made. I have had a go at how Conferences might look, just to give an example. 

I took current Junior League positions and averaged points to the end of the full league season to determine seedings. This presumes there will be an even number from each League in each Conference, it would be unfair to have 6 Premier teams in one Conference and 2 in another. The seedings are in blocks of 4, 1 to 4, 5 to 8, 61 to 63 etc. I have presumed 63 Junior Clubs and 5 new entrants. I don't know who the new entrants are or their current level so have classed them as non Junior for now.

I manipulated 6 Ayrshire teams in each Conference and tried to have as many local derbies as possible but still within the seedings. 

Seed 1 Auchinleck, 2 Kilwinning, 3 Pollok, 4 Glenafton etc

Conference A

Auchinleck, Beith, Cumnock, Rob Roy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth, Gartcairn, P'hill, Winton, Bellshill, Larkhall, Royal Albert, Ashfield, Thrn'wood, Saltcoats, Lugar, Non Junior

Conference B

Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, Largs, Benburb, Shotts, Dalry, St Rochs, Craigmark, Port Gla, Greenock, Maryhill, Wishaw, Johnstone B, Forth, St Ants, Ardeer, Non Junior

Conf C

Pollok, Meadow, Rossvale, Troon, Blantyre, Neilston, Arthurlie, Irv Vics, Shettleston, Perthshire, Girvan, EK, Muirkirk, Maybole, VOC, Non Junior, Non Junior

Conf D

Glenafton, Hurlford, Clbank, Glencairn, Darvel, Renfrew, Whitletts, Cambusl, Lanark, Lesmahagow, Carluke, Kello, VOL, Yoker, Newmains, Annbank, Non Junior

 

 

Oooft! Conf D looks a toughie, but all in it looks like a decent attempt. well done

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35 minutes ago, Terry Singh said:
11 hours ago, theesel1994 said:
I'm going to make a bold prediction here - all 63 West Region clubs WILL apply to the new West of Scotland League. The West Region will make sure of that.

Clubs should be provided with facts and then left to make their own decisions.

Your absolutely right,its not a demand you must join the new wosl.clubs must be provided with the honest facts.then do their due diligence.then make up there own mind is it in their interests to join or stay.they should also remember like all the others its about the long term not the here and now.my club wanted to leave the eos i wished to stay.but if am honest playing in teir 5 has been a joy.

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Nice.
That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.
Might need to stay flexible on the format?


Overall champion could take as little as two extra matches - winner A v winner D in one semi and winner B v winner C in another. Then a final.

Or could take a round robin meaning three days - Saturday/Tuesday/Saturday.
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Nice.
That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.
Might need to stay flexible on the format?
And then the Scottish Junior Cup thrown in as well for the teams who choose to be in it ? Just seems like a competition too far in my personal opinion.
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38 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Nice.

That's 17 clubs in each conference, so 32 matches? Might be a bit high when you remember that 1) there will be a play-off to pick a champion, which will mean 3 or 6 more matches and 2) the champion may enter a play-off with the winners of the SoS and EoS for promotion to the LL, which could be 2 or 4 more matches. And the WoSL leagues would need to finish at the same time as the EoS and SoS leagues, so you could be trying to play 35-38 games by the first week in May. All this in a season that may be shortened because of The Great Disease.

Might need to stay flexible on the format?

Indeed. Five conferences of 13-14?

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1 minute ago, surely not! said:

With regards to the Junior cup. I have a feeling that it will continue as it has for the last few seasons then see a gradual drop off in entrants over the next few seasons.

Or there is a drive to merge it with South Regional Challenge Cup to have an 'all in comp' for all Scottish non-league sides bar Highland (who may even be tempted).

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Seeing Meadow have posted this on FB:

Club Statement Re Pyramid.

Further to the latest PWG meeting. it has been decided that West Region Teams will join the new WOSL within the Pyramid.

Can Shareholders please indicate which option they would prefer by sending their vote to [email protected] by Sunday 29th March.

Option A WOSL and SJFA Membership, including Scottish Junior Cup

Option B WOSL Membership without Scottish Junior Cup.

Option C. Teams not joining WOSL WILL probably have to set up a new League in the West Region.

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12 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Indeed. Five conferences of 13-14?

As @surely not! says above, you could find a champion with 2 knock-out games, which is still 34 league games (plus LL play-off for the winner).

Five conferences in one season would lead to some brutal splits. You could well have a handful of points splitting teams between tier 7 and tier 9 for the following season. It would be exciting though. 

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2 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:
10 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:
I find your lack of comprehension somewhat disturbing. Perhaps this isn’t the subject for you. emoji23.pngemoji23.png

Aye, to be fair I hadn't read the full thing properly. - I assumed they were still after the all-in solution while saying that clubs didn't have to apply, then someone else said that teams who didn't apply wouldn't be able to get promoted, making it appear that everyone would be in the new set up with some in a half-in, half-out position. I've read it properly now though and clearly they still aren't going for an official all-in or none-in position (although they seem to be lobbying every club to get them to join) so if there are any hold outs like the West Lothian clubs they'll be Juniors outside the pyramid. It'll be interesting to see if anyone wants to do that, or if the continued membership of the association and entry to the Junior Cup with sway them. If it does, will the SJFA extend that option to the West Lothian clubs and try to get them into the EoS League in the last season of conferences there?

I don't believe the SJFA or WRJs have any influence over this. It's up to the club's themselves to decide their own future now. Some may choose to live outside the Pyramid for a bit to see how it goes, but the door will remain open to them in future, albeit further down the Pyramid. We played Lochee in the Scottish Cup this season and speaking to some of their supporters, they were adamant about not joining but at the same time lamented the fact they no longer had the really big games to look forward to. At the end of the day each club needs to choose whats best for them. And that's the way it should be.

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