Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

I've tried engaging him a few times this morning and been blanked.

It's become very clear today that this isn't about football for him. He doesn't care what's best for clubs, it's about winning an argument on the internet. In his mind it's two sides at war and everything on one side is bad. Pretty pathetic.

Personal attacks now Marshy, so predictable.

[theesel1994]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

And they totally bombed it out the window, and last year, and before that, they even chucked in a dose of racism.  Why the change of heart?

The LL have a very workable plan and should stick to it, no compromises, no baggage, fresh start.

Because there was no alternative League at that time. Now there is and they have realised that Pyramid entry/SFA Licence possibility is the main priority for a lot of the clubs they have had to change their attitude.

[Marshmallo]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

Personal attacks now Marshy, so predictable.

Deary me, blanks all my questions about football and now wants to frame a simple post as an "attack"

It's a football forum, not a war. No one is "attacking" you. You've completely lost the plot today.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, theesel1994 said:

Because there was no alternative League at that time. Now there is and they have realised that Pyramid entry/SFA Licence possibility is the main priority for a lot of the clubs they have had to change their attitude.

I can point to "option W" being bombed out the window only a few weeks ago, I can point to a similar offer from last year being bombed out the window.  Now it's flavour of the month.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Marshmallo said:

Deary me, blanks all my questions about football and now wants to frame a simple post as an "attack"

It's a football forum, not a war. No one is "attacking" you. You've completely lost the plot today.

Aye whatever, leave off the personal attacks which you have been at all morning. Haven't you got some randoms to red dot?

[clash city rocker]

26 minutes ago, archieb said:

So you regard what has happened in the East as an unmitigated success, which you'd like to see mirrored in the West  do you?

Creating a rump set of traditionalist left-behind still-Juniors isolated from their near-neighbours who are slowly deciding to dribble across to the promised land of the pyramid?

Wouldn't it have been so much better if the situation in the East could have been resolved in a one stage of amalgamation involving all the ERSJFA clubs instead of having this chaotic  slow trickle in Fife, the lost land of West Lothian and Tayside in Limbo?

And is it really so undesirable that the West clubs should try to find a way to avoid something like that?

Gordon Ronney mentioned the East junior clubs quite a lot during the meeting a was at. How those moving across had left those not wishing to isolated and neglected. He didn't want that to happen in West. I was at the meeting really only interested in future progress of my own club but Ronney was adamant all clubs are equal and if clubs refused to move something had to be in place for them to exist under as Juniors.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Aye whatever, leave off the personal attacks which you have been at all morning. Haven't you got some randoms to red dot?

Please point out any "personal attacks". I've tried to engage you in some football discussion and you ignore it cause you have no come back to people challenging your views.

[Beenzon-Toste]

It took longer than I expected but the Burnieman's meltdown is in full flow now.
Loving it.
His master plan of full demolition of the SJFA has been torpedoed.

[Burnie_man]

Yaas, back to red dotting

[the rambler]

I just don't get why some on here are getting their knickers in a twist about retaining SJFA membership and the Scottish Cup. All the SJFA will be doing is running the Scottish Cup.

I am sure in a few years there will be an all in non league Cup run by the SFA and the Junior Cup will die off. 

New applicants to the WoSFL don't need to join the SJFA. Junior Clubs should be able to resign if they wish. 

If Clubs don't want to progress through the Pyramid they don't need to. I believe that all these Clubs want is a league structure to play in. 

Accept compromise for now and tweak as the new structure evolves. 

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

It took longer than I expected but the Burnieman's meltdown is in full flow now.
Loving it.
His master plan of full demolition of the SJFA has been torpedoed.

Aha, Ronney, how are you bud! you here to underline eveything I've been posting about? excellent!

Carry on.

[STRUTHERS]

1. There will be a new WoSFL next season constituted under LL rules. (EOS/SOS model) .
2. The Primary competitions will be the League and the South Cup.
3. Unless there are Junior teams that don't want to join, there will be no further need for a WRJFA as they will have no disciplinary matters or leagues within their jurisdiction. New committee will be formed to run the new WOSL.
5. The SJFA constitution will need to be amended to allow senior players to take part in the SC and the rule compelling clubs in membership to take part in one of its leagues.
6. SFA LL EOSL SOSL have the veto to the change in playoff rules to the LL.
7. IM email does carry some weight but don't think it's a silver bullet but it was referenced.
8. The two options will not be put to a vote at the SFA AGM. This is the only show in town for pyramid entry in the west.
The main arguments from Tuesdays meeting were debunked
Cherry Picking - Won't happen.
Being omitted due to ground conditions--won't happen clubs will be given leeway to comply.
Mood seemed conciliatory between GR & GF and clearly there are still tensions and details to be ironed out, but both parties seem to be focused and willing to get it done.
[emoji1695]

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

It took longer than I expected but the Burnieman's meltdown is in full flow now.
Loving it.
His master plan of full demolition of the SJFA has been torpedoed.

The "preserve the grade!!!" junior types have been panned on here (and rightly so). He can't see he is exactly the same but it's a "destroy the grade".

They're all football clubs. Lets get them playing games against each other. Who gives a shit if they are called junior, senior, or some hybrid where they're in the same league structure but are affiliated to other associations and cups.

Certain individuals are not interested in what is best for clubs. It's become a battle to them on the internet that they have to win totally and completely.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Mystic Blastie said:

32 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There's nothing to suggest that if they bothered to apply that those clubs would be rejected. Quick look at NLS and there doesn't seem to anything obviously wrong with their grounds that wouldn't meet the criteria.
Saying they would get left behind or rejected is just scaremongering.
EDIT: Also if it was just an approach to get all 63 clubs into the WOSFL. Why is there any need for retaining SJFA membersip or playing in the Junior Cup?

The threat of Clydebank and the Buffs saying f**k the wee clubs "we're off" meant someone had to take the bull by the horns. Hats off to the LL for being willing to compromise when as was correctly said on here, they didn't really need to.

Obviously George Fraser has a better understanding of the situation than many on here who's main agenda is humiliating Junior football.

Clydebank and Kilwinning did nothing of the sort! If that's the sort of attitude you've got around the decisions they've made that's rather poor.

And I don't think anyone (even Burnie) cares about humiliating Junior football. Seeing it as an artificial divide and wanted a unified structure does not = humiliation.

[theesel1994]

14 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I can point to "option W" being bombed out the window only a few weeks ago, I can point to a similar offer from last year being bombed out the window.  Now it's flavour of the month.

That was the mistake they made - recommending clubs vote (approve) one option over the others rather than leave it for clubs to decide. Only Largs made up their own mind what they wanted.

[Shannon]

Positive things are looks like no Junior club in the West will be left behind.
No conferences which was going to be a hard sell for supporters in the West especially at our club and with no Junior Cup it would have been a tight 50/50 decision for many teams on whether to join the pyramid or not with committee and supporters split. Now it should be a much cleaner way for all West teams to join the pyramid with no teams like Bathgate, Fauldhouse left behind.

Now it's a no brainer and every West team will hopefully now join the pyramid. If it's not for them they can always go amateur but I don't think any clubs would want to do that.

Well done for being sensible. Hopefully all goes through with no last minute hiccups is my only worry and teams will need a back up plan to join pyramid if talks do break down but it all seems very, very positive with lot of credit to everyone involved so far.

[Guest Mick Kennedy]

8 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

This is part of the concern for me. Clubs signed a declaration essentially outlining the terms under which they would agree to join the pyramid. It's not exactly a commitment to the pyramid is it? It's a here is what we want to join, and we get to keep what we think we should keep....

 

There was significant commitment to the pyramid within the room there is no question of that.

What clubs wanted to ensure was no club was left behind, that the pyramid was a vehicle for ambitious clubs, with the infrastructure, finance, fan base to progress. But clubs with no ambition to progress, because of many reasons still have a future. 

I think that should be commended, these clubs have a history over decades they have played a part in each other journey to the present day. So of course there was a sense of loyalty in the room, and I’m glad there was, to many times in modern day society the stronger becomes stronger and the rest get left behind. What I witnessed wasn't about SJFA, it’s was more about people and clubs who have relationships developed over many years, shared through great and hard times staying loyal to each other their clubs and communities.

There was also a sense that more compromise might need to be sought on the the agreement after speaking to other parties. I think in my opinion many people within the room have great admiration for the LL,EOS and SOS and what it has achieved. They want to be part of it and help shape the future, but not entirely forget those who have helped shape their history. 

 

 

[Guest]

I just don't get why some on here are getting their knickers in a twist about retaining SJFA membership and the Scottish Cup. All the SJFA will be doing is running the Scottish Cup.
I am sure in a few years there will be an all in non league Cup run by the SFA and the Junior Cup will die off. 
New applicants to the WoSFL don't need to join the SJFA. Junior Clubs should be able to resign if they wish. 
If Clubs don't want to progress through the Pyramid they don't need to. I believe that all these Clubs want is a league structure to play in. 
Accept compromise for now and tweak as the new structure evolves. 

I dont think it's as simple as getting knickers in a twist to be honest.

I can only speak for myself, I am delighted to see wrsjfa clubs involved in the pyramid, it has been a penalty kick for long enough and had to happen.

My concern lies in the terminology being used regarding 'protecting the grade' and 'saving the grade' and 'not leaving anyone behind'. It makes me believe there is a toxic undercurrent to the proposals being put forward. To say that the clubs who joined the eosfl left their peers behind portions blame and ensures that ill feeling continues towards the pyramid. Incidentally the thing the wrsjfa are now trying to join.

To then say we will join the pyramid but here are our terms ( including keeping our own cup) isnt really in the spirit of joining something new and committing to it. Also using language like 'no club left behind' doesnt fill me with confidence there arent alterior motives either.

All I can say is I am glad my club plays in the eosfl and isnt part of what I regard as a messy start to the new wosfl. I'm not convinced the wrsjfa or sjfa have the best interests of all clubs in the pyramid at heart but, as I say, that will undoubtedly either be proven correct or wrong in future years.

[Jack Burton]

Providing a baggage free, new start, independent WoSFL is not humliating anyone, providing clubs with a choice of what league to play in is not humiliating anyone.
Nice spin though.

Why would you want to a create a divide in the West? Its been a farce in the East with a 3rd season of conferences because teams keep coming over each season.

Get everyone in the same setup from the start in the West and avoid the situation that happened in the East.

[Burnie_man]

Why would you want to a create a divide in the West? Its been a farce in the East with a 3rd season of conferences because teams keep coming over each season.

Get everyone in the same setup from the start in the West and avoid the situation that happened in the East.

You're bringing the divide along with you, and removing choice from clubs who want to remain Junior.

Do you think those WL clubs should be forced to join the EoS even if they clearly don't want to? Why would anyone do that?