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Junior football, what is the future?

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11 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Yep any remainers need only look at the moonscape that is the ERSJFA South now (and what it will be next year). 

Armadale
Bathgate
Bo'ness Utd Juniors
Fauldhouse
Harthill
Linlithgow Rose CFC
Livingston Utd
Pumpherston
Sauchie Juniors Community
Stoneyburn
Syngenta (?)
West Calder

Local teams for local people. Any rump West Region SJFA will, in all probability, eventually boil down to something similar.

Tradition is such an over-romanticised concept. My tenement-dwelling ancestors of the Victorian/Edwardian era I am sure shat in a bucket in the back yard. I am sure that was the tradition on the farms before they moved to Glasgow for work. Things move on.

Whitburn?

Whats the story with them ?

I'm losing track of shifting clubs here.....

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6 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Yep any remainers need only look at the moonscape that is the ERSJFA South now (and what it will be next year). 

Armadale
Bathgate
Bo'ness Utd Juniors
Fauldhouse
Harthill
Linlithgow Rose CFC
Livingston Utd
Pumpherston
Sauchie Juniors Community
Stoneyburn
Syngenta (?)
West Calder

Local teams for local people. Any rump West Region SJFA will, in all probability, eventually boil down to something similar.

Tradition is such an over-romanticised concept. My tenement-dwelling ancestors of the Victorian/Edwardian era I am sure shat in a bucket in the back yard. I am sure that was the tradition on the farms before they moved to Glasgow for work. Things move on.

I think a lot of the people in the West don't see the threat to their team by not moving.  The West Juniors have been dominant over the East for the last decade.  What changed? simple answer is the Lowland League was set up and the ERJFA started to lose players to the LL the West Juniors were largely unaffected.  The ERJFA never had this problem with the old EOSFL but once the Lowland League was part of the pyramid it got bigger sponsors and more media coverage and the players moved to that league in the East.  That is exactly what will happen to the rump WRJFA once the WOSFL is set up.  There's nothing wrong with not joining the WOSFL but be aware it'll negatively effect the teams who remain financially and in terms of stature.  

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9 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

For 100% clarity, if a club north of the midpoint of the Tay Bridge applied for the EoS, what would happen ?

Is there an actual rule or agreement somewhere that stops the EoS from accepting their application ?

(Bearing in mind of course that in theory, after 3 promotions then a relegation, they could find themselves in the Highland League)

I note that the Lowland League's original announcement re Notes of interest mentioned 'geographical integrity', although that was in relation to applications for the WoS obviously.

In theory they can join the EOSFL but then couldn't be promoted.  I believe the EOSFL turned down a North of Tay application as they said it was not their area.  

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2 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

In theory they can join the EOSFL but then couldn't be promoted.  I believe the EOSFL turned down a North of Tay application as they said it was not their area.  

Cheers.

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15 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Have Newburgh made an announcement ?

And you think they'll stay South region if they stay Junior? They'll go North.

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11 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Whitburn?

Whats the story with them ?

I'm losing track of shifting clubs here.....

Forgot them! Edited in. They are glued in!

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7 hours ago, Robert James said:

I think it is inevitable that there will be questions (and answers) about the merits and disadvantages of  conferences -v- a vertical structure  . Existing West Juniors have no experience of conferences, and its potential impact on attendances, costs, and player recruitment, will be relevant. Some clubs may make their decision to apply (or not to apply) on the answers they receive from the officials, regarding the structure format for 2020/21.

However this will be about information sharing, as no final 'structural'  decision can be made until the total number of applications is known. 

Personally, I would prefer a conference structure, although I accept that I am biased as a GUFC supporter !!  

It could be a combination of the two depending on numbers... i.e. maintain a top 'Premier' of  the 16  highest placed applicants and go to conferences below that. 

If the new 'incomers' are indeed competitive they'll get promoted.

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3 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Forgot them! Edited in. They are glued in!

Aye, I'm just looking at numbers.

East South division will certainly be down to one league, unless they're planning on 6 team leagues playing each other about 5 or 6 times per season.....

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10 hours ago, Killiepiyo said:

Football aside, How would you sell it to supporters that their club will lose substantial amounts of money and players, so that civil service and who ever else can get big gates for a while? 

If they stay where they are while other teams move they will lose substantial amounts of money and players, so that they can remain loyal to the grade.

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7 hours ago, Killiepiyo said:

My inbox would make most people sad as appears some are letting personal grievances get the better of them and its affecting clubs and supporters in lots of different ways.

The absolute worst thing imo is for people to make decisions out of fear or bullying so lets all get as much information as possible from both meetings and even if theres things not agreeable, talk without being called stupid, backwards, dinosuar, traitor, conspirator etc. 

:( :(

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But this time ALL the clubs will be incomers, so there are no incumbents to be given that sort of priority.
The accepted applicants must make any necessary decisions about the format of a new WoSL
There is also a responsibility of those running the league to treat all applicants equally, and ensure those who are outwith the Junior game dont get punted to levels below others.

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1 hour ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

For 100% clarity, if a club north of the midpoint of the Tay Bridge applied for the EoS, what would happen ?

Is there an actual rule or agreement somewhere that stops the EoS from accepting their application ?

(Bearing in mind of course that in theory, after 3 promotions then a relegation, they could find themselves in the Highland League)

I note that the Lowland League's original announcement re Notes of interest mentioned 'geographical integrity', although that was in relation to applications for the WoS obviously.

As far as I know, the EOS in theory have no rules against accepting them. However, one north of Tay Bridge club at least has already been knocked back due to location and Tayside clubs know they won't be accepted if they apply for the EOS. From the idea I'm getting, the EOS have basically agreed with the LL to only accept clubs within LL territory.

If the rumoured boundary change happens it will be interesting to see if this will change.

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6 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

There is zero chance a club like Talbot will not move to a new WOSFL and risk being left behind by their rivals.  Lets say for arguments sake they did stay and exactly what happened in the east happens in the West.  half the teams in WRJFA move to WOSFL, Talbot stay in a weakened WRJFA as the teams who've moved are replaced by lower standard Junior teams.  The second year a few more clubs move to the WOSFL Talbot now have the choice of staying in an ever weakening WRJFA or joining WOSFL at Tier 7 the following year Tier 8 etc.  Every team that moves to WOSFL will improve their league and weaken the WRJFA it wouldn't be long before Talbot started to lose players to teams they formally dominated and by the time they moved and played their way through the Tiers of weak teams there's a good chance they would never manage to overtake some of the other former Juniors.  Talbot are a well run club and will defiantly move to ensure they're not left behind.  Any club who turns down the WOSFL will face death by a thousand cuts as they get weaker season on season look what's left in the ERJFA and bear in mind the Tayside teams are only there as they've nowhere else to go.    

For evidence of what happens to a club that “stays behind” see Whitburn pre vs post Superleague.

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9 hours ago, Killiepiyo said:

 I think the worst position to be in would be a take it or leave burnie style approach as I dont personally see that as being constructive.

The LL intend to allow all clubs to join at the same level, tier 6, as they did in the EoS.  That is a fair and constructive way to kick off the first season in a brand new league with members coming from different areas of the game. 

Not sure how that cannot be a constructive way to approach this.

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2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Yep any remainers need only look at the moonscape that is the ERSJFA South now (and what it will be next year). 

Armadale
Bathgate
Bo'ness Utd Juniors
Fauldhouse
Harthill
Linlithgow Rose CFC
Livingston Utd
Pumpherston
Sauchie Juniors Community
Stoneyburn
Syngenta (?)
West Calder
Whitburn

Not so much a poor league, but sitting outside the pyramid makes its prospects seem bleak.

There must be a way to get them all on board.

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53 minutes ago, Marten said:

As far as I know, the EOS in theory have no rules against accepting them. However, one north of Tay Bridge club at least has already been knocked back due to location and Tayside clubs know they won't be accepted if they apply for the EOS. From the idea I'm getting, the EOS have basically agreed with the LL to only accept clubs within LL territory.

If the rumoured boundary change happens it will be interesting to see if this will change.

Cheers.

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9 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:
9 hours ago, Dev said:
The Lowland League was approached by west Junior clubs first of all and then became active in the creation of the Tier 6 Pyramid structure in the west for 2020/21.

How many clubs?

It was referred to in at least one earlier post, a while back. From either Born to run or in one of the Statements issued directly by the Lowland League. I don't recall that it stated how many clubs or which ones. It's unlikely that the league would name clubs.

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9 hours ago, archieb said:

But this time ALL the clubs will be incomers, so there are no incumbents to be given that sort of priority.

The accepted applicants must make any necessary decisions about the format of a new WoSL

You're right. That's what is to happen. It has been mentioned in at least one of the Lowland League's Statements.

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