santheman Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said: Think you're correct santheman and we're probably going to see a split like the East saw a couple of years ago. I hope all teams explore both options but at the end of the day we need to respect their choice and there is nothing wrong with either option and clubs are always free to change their mind. Think a split is inevitable. You have clubs who have the infrastructure,finance and support to make it and progress in the "big league" but i do believe if given the choice, would prefer to come in under the WRJFA but because thats not going to happen now will happily pin their colours to the WOSL mast. On the other hand you have lots of clubs who in reality will never get anywhere near the stage where they could gain a licence so entry to the Scottish Cup which is the biggest carrot at the end of the day is just a pipe dream. Most of them do well to put a team out on a Saturday so the lure of an u20 development league isnt really that important to them. That leaves access to grants, the amount of which isnt really all that attractive, certainly not enough to make them want to jump from one league to another so the attitude is why move at all and just stay where we are. The only thing that would change that attitude would be if you had a ruck of teams in a certain area moving and the fear of being left behind. For example in my own area if Larkhall Royal Albert Wishaw Lesmahagow all decided to move over to a WOSL then the likeliehood is Forth Carluke and Lanark would probably follow. I might add that is highly unlikely to happen as there is a tremendous loyalty to the SJFA and WRJFA (you might ask why) in this area and Im sure the same would apply to the lower league Ayrshire teams as well. So yes I think a split is inevitable unless someone has a magic wand 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 What i'll be interested to see is who actually declares for the pyramid version of the WoSFL publicly. Clydebank already have. I look at this Rossvale tweet as being a decision between the two. If Clydebank get joined by others before the March 31st deadline it will inevitably sway some on the fence hoping for the SJFA version to become a reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, santheman said: Think a split is inevitable. You have clubs who have the infrastructure,finance and support to make it and progress in the "big league" but i do believe if given the choice, would prefer to come in under the WRJFA but because thats not going to happen now will happily pin their colours to the WOSL mast. On the other hand you have lots of clubs who in reality will never get anywhere near the stage where they could gain a licence so entry to the Scottish Cup which is the biggest carrot at the end of the day is just a pipe dream. Most of them do well to put a team out on a Saturday so the lure of an u20 development league isnt really that important to them. That leaves access to grants, the amount of which isnt really all that attractive, certainly not enough to make them want to jump from one league to another so the attitude is why move at all and just stay where we are. The only thing that would change that attitude would be if you had a ruck of teams in a certain area moving and the fear of being left behind. For example in my own area if Larkhall Royal Albert Wishaw Lesmahagow all decided to move over to a WOSL then the likeliehood is Forth Carluke and Lanark would probably follow. I might add that is highly unlikely to happen as there is a tremendous loyalty to the SJFA and WRJFA (you might ask why) in this area and Im sure the same would apply to the lower league Ayrshire teams as well. So yes I think a split is inevitable unless someone has a magic wand I don't think anything you say is wrong and agree with it all. I wouldn't say U20 development is a lure, to some yeah its an extra bonus but some are going to find that its a necessity, (some don't even know it yet), as if they are not a buying club which quite a few junior teams are not then they will require youth coming through so organising it correctly will save money in the future. you said "On the other hand you have lots of clubs who in reality will never get anywhere near the stage where they could gain a licence so entry to the Scottish Cup which is the biggest carrot at the end of the day is just a pipe dream."" But this is also true this season, last season and the past seasons since junior were allowed into the Scottish cup. Just now, you cant tell me not one team would love and not dreamed about the chance to do what Auchinleck have done in the Scottish Senior cup, just they know they will never have the chance of it. I will admit when I hear or read, loyalty to the grade or to the SJFA and or WRJFA I seriously just shake my head. These are people in charge of clubs who are ignorant to all about them, no vision, scared or just want to continue as they are and you know what, let them go for it. The junior teams who want to progress then leave for the new WOS under LL organisation and any teams loyal to the grade then just stay where you are. The more each day passes and the more information I read and see on other medium as wall as this, twitter, facebook etc.. I think I do not want anyone connected to the junior organisation to be including in the organization of any WOS. These people will never change their view and will only lead to problems and hassle so definitely a new start is required. Either all this crap by the juniors saying they are going to get in is legit, only in their minds which looks like looks like a dead donkey or its a rouse by junior association delegates to keep junior teams with them, I say fine, let most stay. All is needed is a few junior teams to leave and enough external junior teams to join and we have a new WOS division and then that's it, it will end up as similar to the East region and be non existent. Edited March 12, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james666 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Born To Run said: There have been talks. The North Caledonian League is ready and willing to sit at tier 6, but would need either the North Superleague or a new Grampian league sitting alongside them. Cheers for that. Looking at it, the only way I can see it working, also addimg the Tayside clubs, would be and East league from Dundee to say Buckie and the rest of the juniors going to the NCL to boost it's numbers. 1 up from each league and 2 down from Highland league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 So what did I miss? How did the meeting go? Is everyone friends again?[emoji57] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 hours ago, james666 said: Is there any talk of junior clubs entering the pyramid in the north region? HFL seems a closed shop. Pyramid discussions have been taking place between an SFA official and the NCL, and (I understand) separately with the NRJFA. The HFL has apparently been 'receptive'. A further meeting is likely to take place before the end of this season. No agreed date, as far as I am aware. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Is it truly fucking beyond Scottish football for all these different fuckers to get into one room and discuss this rather than releasing stupid fucking contradictory statements every few days?They were doing this for about 20 years and got nowhere, and a big part of that was because one party didn't want to play ball. At some point people get fed up of that approach. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Pennel Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Is it Thursday yet ? Please, please...let it be Thursday... Here's a wizard wheeze just for a laugh...see if the LL runs the new league for a season and then let's us vote for officials to be office bearers...can we just elect Chis, Gordon, & Matt into place ?...just for kicks, like ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, santheman said: Think a split is inevitable. You have clubs who have the infrastructure,finance and support to make it and progress in the "big league" but i do believe if given the choice, would prefer to come in under the WRJFA but because thats not going to happen now will happily pin their colours to the WOSL mast. On the other hand you have lots of clubs who in reality will never get anywhere near the stage where they could gain a licence so entry to the Scottish Cup which is the biggest carrot at the end of the day is just a pipe dream. Most of them do well to put a team out on a Saturday so the lure of an u20 development league isnt really that important to them. That leaves access to grants, the amount of which isnt really all that attractive, certainly not enough to make them want to jump from one league to another so the attitude is why move at all and just stay where we are. The only thing that would change that attitude would be if you had a ruck of teams in a certain area moving and the fear of being left behind. For example in my own area if Larkhall Royal Albert Wishaw Lesmahagow all decided to move over to a WOSL then the likeliehood is Forth Carluke and Lanark would probably follow. I might add that is highly unlikely to happen as there is a tremendous loyalty to the SJFA and WRJFA (you might ask why) in this area and Im sure the same would apply to the lower league Ayrshire teams as well. So yes I think a split is inevitable unless someone has a magic wand All I would say Sandy is that some very small clubs in the old East have got their licence, or are working towards it. It is not beynd anyone. Right now communities have no incentive to get behind their local Junior side. Within the pyramid there seems to be a chink of light that attracts new ideas / people / investment. And you also have to bear in mind another thing. Clubs need opponents. Rosyth are going EoS as all their old rivals are there too. It is not all about getting the licence. Which set-up has the brighter future? Any club staying behind now will (IMO) join up at some point in the future, but at a lesser level than they might have initially. It it not going to be undone. And I come back again to the SJFA (and regions) and the way it leeches off clubs by fining them for disciplinary issues (doesn't happen in SFA leagues) and taxing them for signing 'senior' players - all on record as designed to fund the organisation's paid employees. Put the clubs first and lay these processes in the ground. I know it's not your point but I just don't get where the loyalty comes from. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. Edited March 12, 2020 by cmontheloknow 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Stockholm Syndrome. Have they expressed interest? 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 9 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: What i'll be interested to see is who actually declares for the pyramid version of the WoSFL publicly. Clydebank already have. I look at this Rossvale tweet as being a decision between the two.... Think it needs to be emphasised that there's only one viable WOS and that's the LL one. The other scenario depends on legal action that has zero chance of getting anywhere. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 I would think as soon as the LL tell clubs tonight that they won’t be running a league as a favour for the WJFA George Fraser will be seeing his inbox fill with applications very quickly. The WJFA has thrown one last desperate punch which should be easily dodged and leave them a sitting duck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morley Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 The LL/EOS may not actually be that bothered if only say 7 or 8 junior clubs actually follow through with their initial NOI and apply (not that they would publicly admit it). As to start with they may prefer clubs to be ones who have fully bought into the fresh start idea, want to move away from the junior grade culture, and fully commited to the senior/pyramid idea, rather than clubs who more reluctantly apply. Because unlike the EoS when it expanded you don't have that core base of original clubs to build around. Not that they will decline any junior club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, parsforlife said: I would think as soon as the LL tell clubs tonight that they won’t be running a league as a favour for the WJFA George Fraser will be seeing his inbox fill with applications very quickly. The WJFA has thrown one last desperate punch which should be easily dodged and leave them a sitting duck. Unless the LL think it would do them a favour to not run the lower rungs. Anyway, one compromise that I can see is for any clubs relegated out of LL into WoSJFL to be given option of taking on SJFA membership. By opting in they can enter Junior Cup. If they opted out, they'd remain in South Regional Challenge Cup. But as WOSJFL members, they'd enter all of their cups. Edited March 12, 2020 by cmontheloknow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 I really think the LL/EoS have zero interest in working with the SJFA or west region at this point and will be happy to see as many west region clubs as possible entering the pyramid by completely leaving the juniors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Hearing Gordon Ronney is trying to get a fit note from a doctor to get the meeting cancelled tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said: Unless the LL think it would do them a favour to not run the lower rungs. That's going to happen by default anyway. There might only be 10-12 clubs that commit to the WoS - that would be enough. I suspect there will be more than 16 though. If there was a sweepstake, I'd go with 45%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, morley said: The LL/EOS may not actually be that bothered if only say 7 or 8 junior clubs actually follow through with their initial NOI and apply (not that they would publicly admit it). As to start with they may prefer clubs to be ones who have fully bought into the fresh start idea, want to move away from the junior grade culture, and fully commited to the senior/pyramid idea, rather than clubs who more reluctantly apply. Because unlike the EoS when it expanded you don't have that core base of original clubs to build around. Not that they will decline any junior club. The LL will take as many who are interested, nobody will be turned away as is being claimed in WRJFA circles. However as you say, the LL will run this league with 12 clubs or 42 clubs it makes no difference to them. The important thing, the base reason for a WoSFL, is to provide a pathway into the Pyramid and Senior football for all clubs in the west of Scotland. All clubs regardless of their current "grade". It's not solely about the Juniors, and nor should it. Meanwhile we have the WRJFA running around spouting pish, lying to clubs about option Z, trying to "starve" the LL of clubs, trying to get the SFA to put blockers in to stop it, threatening legal action, we even had someone at Tuesdays meeting shout "F*ck the LL" without any sort of rebuke, that on the back of the woodpile incident. Do you want these people anywhere near the Pyramid? Edited March 12, 2020 by Burnie_man 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Refresh my memory. What was the chat from the East Region Juniors when Blackburn and the original trickle were turning into a stream? Did they have the same warnings from the Juniors they wouldn't accept them all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Refresh my memory. What was the chat from the East Region Juniors when Blackburn and the original trickle were turning into a stream? Did they have the same warnings from the Juniors they wouldn't accept them all? There were ridiculous claims that they would only take 6 clubs to make a single division of 18. Can't recall the source. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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