Junior football, what is the future?

[Che Dail]

56 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The beauty of this of course is that clubs can stay in the Juniors if they aren't comfortable with a Conference system (or any other aspect of the WoSFL). 

They have a choice.

Aye - take it or leave it 

[Che Dail]

Just now, Killiepiyo said:

Why is it hard for you to imagine that going to your clubs supporters saying for example, we will lose upwards of X amount in the first year if we go for this opition however in year three we may claw that back... might not be applauded? 

Maybe you should do a short presentation on Thursday night... might not be applauded.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Killiepiyo said:

Why is it hard for you to imagine that going to your clubs supporters saying for example, we will lose upwards of X amount in the first year if we go for this opition however in year three we may claw that back... might not be applauded? 

Because we have a precedent from last year we can refer to.  You don't want to listen though so it's pointless, you're just here to stir it up a bit.

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

'The LL/EoS/SoS aren't going to want to rank clubs. '

Its been posted on here several times that when the 3 EoS conferences were set up last season, the teams were seeded.

Unless that info is wrong, doesn't it really amount to the same thing ?

Not really. For conferences you just need a list of clubs, which you work down and assign a letter - 1, 4, 7 = A; 2, 5, 8 = B; 3, 6, 9 = C.  If you were merging the entire SOS + WR + other applicants - it wouldn't really matter which group was listed above the other, as a third of clubs would go into each conference anyway.

Here's what the EOS conference listing looked like. As you can see from the second image it created a roughly equal spread of both abilities, and clubs from each of their previous divisions.

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Getting back to Gordon Ronney's assertions. The SFA could theoretically sanction a WRSJFA run WoS in the senior grade for as soon as next season, but the point that needs to be made clear is that league would not be able to enter the  pyramid as a west feeder without the LL, EoS and SoS also signing off on it because of the way the LL playoff rules are worded. It is disingenuous to leave people with the impression that there is a viable path to the pyramid through that approach. There isn't.

I really hope he is questioned on the LL play-off issue as none of his tweets or posts have addressed this. Does he think the SFA will accept the WRJFA proposal and they'll magically have access to the pyramid?

58 minutes ago, Killiepiyo said:

Is that not another way of saying it's our way or the highway?

Isn't that what Gordon Ronney and the WRJFA are saying with their application to run the WOS? That doesn't give those who want to break free of the SJFA a choice.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Ginaro

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, Killiepiyo said:

Why is it hard for you to imagine that going to your clubs supporters saying for example, we will lose upwards of X amount in the first year if we go for this opition however in year three we may claw that back... might not be applauded? 

How do they know they are going to lose it. You may find you increase attendances on a game that might have been nothing but could be a top of conference game. Lithgae vs camelon 415 and 602 last season in the juniors it was 300-350 in recent yrs 

[wow-wee]

1 minute ago, Killiepiyo said:

Why is it hard for you to imagine that going to your clubs supporters saying for example, we will lose upwards of X amount in the first year if we go for this opition however in year three we may claw that back... might not be applauded? 

But on the other hand if we choose to stay we will die a slow death and end up having to move and end up in the bottom league and lost more money than you would have if you if you go at the beginning.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Aye - take it or leave it 

Pretty much.  I don't particularly care if some bigger clubs don't move, it is their choice and nobody is forcing them.

Two Conferences of 14/16 would be ideal in my opinion to kick things off.

[andy25]

If Talbot stay in Ronneys league they will lose a of a lot of money as I know a few supporters who wont be going to as many games if any.

Why is it hard for you to imagine that going to your clubs supporters saying for example, we will lose upwards of X amount in the first year if we go for this opition however in year three we may claw that back... might not be applauded? 

O

[andy25]

When will Talbot be having a meeting with supporters to discuss what their plans are?

Why is it hard for you to imagine that going to your clubs supporters saying for example, we will lose upwards of X amount in the first year if we go for this opition however in year three we may claw that back... might not be applauded? 

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, andy25 said:

If Talbot stay in Ronneys league they will lose a of a lot of money as I know a few supporters who wont be going to as many games if any.

O

Which game attracts the highest attendance for talbot? Is it.cumnock? 

[Salvo Montalbano]

Football aside, How would you sell it to supporters that their club will lose substantial amounts of money and players, so that civil service and who ever else can get big gates for a while? 

I'd say that's what happens if you get relegated but if you do this while you may see a few gates that are perhaps lower (and by the way, how arrogant and disrespectful sounding can you be about other clubs gates?) you'll get a fixed fixture list so you can sell hospitality, you're on the way to getting into the Scottish Cup every year with the potential for big gates there, that you will get to visit places you haven't been for a while and that pretty much every club will have something to play for (title, Premier League status for the following season, etc) rather than just having maybe 2 or 3 going for the title. More meaningful games, games publicised in advance, games against novel opposition, games being played midweek in decent weather, teams not going months without a game to fit in the Junior Cup - all these things would potentially increase crowds which is exactly what we saw with many clubs in the East.

As for why the Junior blazers are treated with scepticism, that's been done to death. When the pyranid was first mooted, the SJFA could have lobbied for their SuperDooper League to be the de facto feeder in the South; they could have lobbied for a 4 way play off between Team 42 in the SPFL, the West Super Champion, the East Super Champion and the Highlanf League Winner; they could have arranged a merger/takeover of the Lowland League with the bulk of the clubs being Juniors... they decided the pyramid wasn't for them.

When Kelty said that they wanted to join the pyramid, the SJFA could have lobbied for access to the Lowland League for the Super League champions; they could have had talks about a merger/takeover of the East of Scotland League which some felt was a poorer league; they could have looked at a way of getting all the clubs who wanted access to the pyramid into it while remaining Junior... they decided that Kelty were a one-off and not worth saving.

When there was an exodus of East Juniors to the East of Scotland League, the SJFA could have looked at that as a warning and tried to negotiate a way for all the Juniors to have pyramid access - while this would probably see any other East Junior club who wanted to go join the East of Scotland League, it would have meant guaranteed entry to the pyramid for every club in the West who wanted it... instead they decided it had to be all-in or none-in, ignoring the fact that the North Region was ignored in their plan, that the Lowland League boundary would mean some East teams might not get into the Lowland League and that some clubs in both the East and the West may have wanted to remain Junior.

The SJFA has had three openings to get this sorted and at each step they've decided that it wasn't for them. Only now, with the threat of a WoS League is the West Region (with the implied support of the national SJFA) trying to get pyramid access and even then it is totally on their terms - the tiers below the Super League remaining Junior (will this mean reinstatement fees and fines?), still running the show at the lower levels, no thought of how to integrate non-Junior clubs, wanting senior clubs who find themselves relegated from the West Super League to become Junior clubs to join their Tier 7 and lower. I could go on. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[andy25]

No. Probably Pollok.

Which game attracts the highest attendance for talbot? Is it.cumnock? 

[Killiepiyo]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Moving from being outside of the pyramid to the highest level they can apply to within the pyramid?

As others have said you're just posting shite to try and help your pals Ronney and Johnston. You know it's a lot of pish.

Jeeso actual tears here. I wouldn't be very good at agendas when I'm offering genuine concerns I've heard from clubs that might actually help by addressing!!

I'm pretty sure both those individuals can express themselves well enough themselves. Gordon did give me a bottle of whisky once because I made Kilbirnie a video when they beat us in the ardgh cup final if that counts as conspiracy???

Not sure  TJ has ever said hello to me? Busy guy. George J did say he was mad at me once for something i posted and risked a fine or ban or something but that's the extent of my interactions with both individuals. 

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

There should be no assumption, all possibilities should be examined, and ultimately decided upon by the clubs themselves.

Totally agree - there was plenty speculation and good (different) ideas on potential solutions for the East - I think the EoS league guys came up with the conference model and it stuck... just playing it out for one season too many, as it happens, but it worked initially. 

People should come at it again with open minds because there might be a completely different approach that works for the majority.

Sure they'll know more once notes of interest are converted into firm applications.

[wow-wee]

2 minutes ago, andy25 said:

If Talbot stay in Ronneys league they will lose a of a lot of money as I know a few supporters who wont be going to as many games if any.

O

Let's not kid ourselves on here ever premier club is moving whether some fans like it or not some club's are just waiting in the wings and will go with the majority tomorrows meeting is a waste of time and will show forward thinking club's there's only one show in town and it will be on thursday.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

If Talbot stay in Ronneys league they will lose a of a lot of money as I know a few supporters who wont be going to as many games if any.
O

Dont worry, Talbot have been talking to the LL people since this was all announced, they just don’t want to admit it publicly as they know some wont be for it etc, but they’re going.

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Seeding clubs for Conferences is different from ranking them to place into Tier 6, Tier 7 etc.

The LL/EoS/SoS are going to be okay with saying single division or Conferences. But not ranking them to go into tiered divisions.

EDIT: And no they aren't the same thing. Which is why its fine if the eventual members decide to vote for a tiered approach.

'But not ranking them to go into tiered divisions.'......Assumption .

The Ll will be guided by the club's wishes ,hopefully .

[not man of the match]

Short term loss for long term game or loyalty to a dying grade for long term loss.

That is how I see it for those unsure.

My sole opinion only and have no interest in backing it up for anyone who disagrees. It’s upto the clubs what they do now.

[surely not!]

'But not ranking them to go into tiered divisions.'......Assumption .
The Ll will be guided by the club's wishes ,hopefully .

Not the LL, it’s the WoSL.

[andy25]

Good.

Dont worry, Talbot have been talking to the LL people since this was all announced, they just don’t want to admit it publicly as they know some wont be for it etc, but they’re going.