Junior football, what is the future?

[Marshmallo]

1 hour ago, clash city rocker said:

Considering Wallsa has a junior cup winners medal unlike folk on here his opinion should not be derided. He was told at Ladeside meeting that NOTHING will be decided until SFA meeting in June...and that nothing may well even be decided then.

I didn't realise that the medal came with full detail on the Lowland League's feeder league criteria and governance process.

[Doonhamer1969]

9 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Correct.  Imagine the scenario where [if all top clubs apply] whoever is top of the Championship this season doesn't get into the new tier 6, whilst a club who finished in the Premiership relegation positions "retains" their top league status.

Who decides either way?  Not convinced the LL/EoS/SoS are going to encourage conflict from the start.

If it was done that way, normal promotion and relegation rules would need to apply.

[clash city rocker]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

He was going by what he was TOLD - from the people that talked of "done deals."

What was it you said about people on here not getting sarcasm

[clash city rocker]

4 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

I didn't realise that the medal came with full detail on the Lowland League's feeder league criteria and governance process.

Oh jeez. Much too serious on here for me 

[Killiepiyo]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If you go all the way back to May 2018 with the first real PWG trying to integrate the "Juniors" into the pyramid. Nothing really changed.

Only the SoS were okay with the SJFA as is.

My orginal fear was that there was bad feelings towards the SJFA and that there was never much of a prospect of an agreement, more so with the veto situation. As I am apperently a stupid gullible person, I had hoped the sfa could come in, look at it and say naw well that's going no where, this is what should happen. 

I personally wouldn't want to be in a negotiation where everyone had more power than me, fully controlled the entry and more so when they could just stand up, walk away making me out to be the incompetent or problem party.  No making excuses for anyone I just personally wouldn't want to find myself in that position.

Anyway I can see the red dot mafia pinging away while typing, I do wonder why they find me so stupid and or threatening?

[Sergeant Wilson]

31 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If Clydebank and Kilwinning go, do you really think none of the 61 other clubs in the West Region will leave for a pyramid league?

Back in October 2018 Ian Maxwell put together is draft statement saying the West Region and East Region are going to be in the pyramid for 2019-20. Didn't happen because as soon as the pyramid leagues saw it, they disagreed with its content.

In March/April 2019 Ian Maxwell presented the LL playoff model to be used in 2019/20 for a vote by the pyramid leagues. The EoS and LL voted against.

The SFA have no ability to force the West Region into the Lowland League. If they did they would of done it 18 months ago.

Which revealed Maxwell to be an idiot to those that didn't already know.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, Killiepiyo said:

My orginal fear was that there was bad feelings towards the SJFA and that there was never much of a prospect of an agreement, more so with the veto situation. As I am apperently a stupid gullible person, I had hoped the sfa could come in, look at it and say naw well that's going no where, this is what should happen. 

I personally wouldn't want to be in a negotiation where everyone had more power than me, fully controlled the entry and more so when they could just stand up, walk away making me out to be the incompetent or problem party.  No making excuses for anyone I just personally wouldn't want to find myself in that position.

Anyway I can see the red dot mafia pinging away while typing, I do wonder why they find me so stupid and or threatening?

Because it's going over old ground and people are fed up with it now. People wouldnt care if the juniors stayed as they were as wosfl was getting set up and if you didnt join well fine. 

Ronney etc are just causing trouble and trying to muddy the waters and their will be people who believe it.

You can clearly see noone in the east went back. Everyone in the east is fine with where they are at. They were fine with the conferences 

[Killiepiyo]

Just now, gogsy said:

Pretty sure nobody finds you threatening.

Good I'd be upset if they did 

[Doonhamer1969]

9 hours ago, Baldie2k19 said:

If more than 16 teams apply, which looks very likely then conferences are the only answer. Ranking teams is also the fairest way.

 

9 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Yes, there were plenty positives about that first season of conferences:

- Everyone starts on an equal footing

- 3 conference winners produced

- 1 eventual overall winner gained promotion to the Lowland League

- Top 5 rewarded with promotion to the top league for the following season

- Relatively big gates for lower-level clubs 

- New cups and competitions - One providing access to the Scottish Cup

- Visits to new venues and different clubs

- All clubs with renewed focus on improving facilities, regardless of league position, working towards gaining a club license

- All clubs treated fairly

It should feel like a completely new and exciting start for everyone involved.  The process might and probably will result in exactly the same top league being created as the West Premier - so I can see the point folk are making that a season could be saved by 'restoring' the top level now... but what's the rush, in the grand scheme of things? Everyone will find their level naturally over time.

'It should feel like a completely new and exciting start for everyone involved. '

Fair enough, might just be enough to convince me that conferences are the way to go.

That and the concept of all clubs being treated equally, even though in reality they are not equal.

I'm all for equality.

However, there are still people on here ASSUMING that conferences will happen if or when there are 16+ applications accepted for the WoS.

There should be no assumption, all possibilities should be examined, and ultimately decided upon by the clubs themselves.

[GNU_Linux]

My orginal fear was that there was bad feelings towards the SJFA and that there was never much of a prospect of an agreement, more so with the veto situation. As I am apperently a stupid gullible person, I had hoped the sfa could come in, look at it and say naw well that's going no where, this is what should happen. 
I personally wouldn't want to be in a negotiation where everyone had more power than me, fully controlled the entry and more so when they could just stand up, walk away making me out to be the incompetent or problem party.  No making excuses for anyone I just personally wouldn't want to find myself in that position.
Anyway I can see the red dot mafia pinging away while typing, I do wonder why they find me so stupid and or threatening?

The EOS/LL/SOS never walked away. It was the SFA themselves who disolved the PWG. The EOS et al objections/issues have been valid ones but the SJFA has never once offered to comprimise thus we are where we are now.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

 

'It should feel like a completely new and exciting start for everyone involved. '

Fair enough, might just be enough to convince me that conferences are the way to go.

That and the concept of all clubs being treated equally, even though in reality they are not equal.

I'm all for equality.

However, there are still people on here ASSUMING that conferences will happen if or when there are 16+ applications accepted for the WoS.

There should be no assumption, all possibilities should be examined, and ultimately decided upon by the clubs themselves.

Y should it be. Their is no existing clubs. Camelon or any of the 26 newbies had no say on the 1st season  structure 

[Killiepiyo]

3 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

 

'It should feel like a completely new and exciting start for everyone involved. '

Fair enough, might just be enough to convince me that conferences are the way to go.

That and the concept of all clubs being treated equally, even though in reality they are not equal.

I'm all for equality.

However, there are still people on here ASSUMING that conferences will happen if or when there are 16+ applications accepted for the WoS.

There should be no assumption, all possibilities should be examined, and ultimately decided upon by the clubs themselves.

Yeah personally I really don't like the idea of conferences. That's what's putting me off their proposal at present 

[Doonhamer1969]

8 hours ago, Marten said:

Once applications are known, the structure will be decided. But if they do it in the same way as they did in the EOS, it will be seeded. For example, if all West Premiership clubs applied, the top seeds will be the teams who finished 1st - 3rd this season, second seeds will be teams finishing 4th - 6th and so on. Non-WRJFA applicants will then be treated separately in terms of seeding.

Edit: just to add, this is to balance the conferences so they are of equal strength, which is the fairest way to decide the clubs in the WoSFL Premier. Regional conferences could get lopsided meaning that some clubs that are strong enough for the Premier division wouldn't make it and vice versa.

How would the seeding of the non-WRJA teams be decided ?

[ShrimpLok]

2 hours ago, clash city rocker said:

Considering Wallsa has a junior cup winners medal unlike folk on here his opinion should not be derided. He was told at Ladeside meeting that NOTHING will be decided until SFA meeting in June...and that nothing may well even be decided then.

Paul Gascoigne’s got an FA Cup Winner’s Medal but it doesn’t mean turning up at Tuesday’s meeting to give Gordon Ronney some “Chicken and Lager” is going to lead to a successful resolution of the stand off.

[Cyclizine]

10 minutes ago, Killiepiyo said:

My orginal fear was that there was bad feelings towards the SJFA and that there was never much of a prospect of an agreement, more so with the veto situation.

The SJFA declined to engage with the other parties at the time the LL was being mooted nearly ten years ago . Why would you expect them to have a say in how the regulations were written?

[energyzone]

Yeah personally I really don't like the idea of conferences. That's what's putting me off their proposal at present 

What is it you don't like about them?

You mentioned earlier that top flight clubs would face a season of less savoury fixtures. Apart from your club, every single other club in the top flight has spent time in the lower league(s) in the past decade and it wasn't the end of the world for any of them.

[patriot1]

Is the pyramid meeting still going ahead on Thursday? 

[glensmad]

My orginal fear was that there was bad feelings towards the SJFA and that there was never much of a prospect of an agreement, more so with the veto situation. As I am apperently a stupid gullible person, I had hoped the sfa could come in, look at it and say naw well that's going no where, this is what should happen. 
I personally wouldn't want to be in a negotiation where everyone had more power than me, fully controlled the entry and more so when they could just stand up, walk away making me out to be the incompetent or problem party.  No making excuses for anyone I just personally wouldn't want to find myself in that position.
Anyway I can see the red dot mafia pinging away while typing, I do wonder why they find me so stupid and or threatening?

You're not averse to giving out the odd red dot yourself. [emoji6]

[Burnie_man]

49 minutes ago, Killiepiyo said:

Burnie makes out like everyone went to every extent to ensure the juniors entered the pyramid

Everyone did.  Indeed at an EoS meeting 11 months ago, Petrie and Maxwell were told by every EoS delegate that nobody had an issue with the WRJFA entering the Pyramid on their own.  It didn't happen.

The WRJFA had the chance to back "option w", another open door, but completely blew it out the water.  TJ reiterated at last PWG "all-in".

At that point, the LL took a grip of the situation.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Burnie_man

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Killiepiyo said:

My orginal fear was that there was bad feelings towards the SJFA and that there was never much of a prospect of an agreement, more so with the veto situation. As I am apperently a stupid gullible person, I had hoped the sfa could come in, look at it and say naw well that's going no where, this is what should happen. 

I personally wouldn't want to be in a negotiation where everyone had more power than me, fully controlled the entry and more so when they could just stand up, walk away making me out to be the incompetent or problem party.  No making excuses for anyone I just personally wouldn't want to find myself in that position.

Well, the LL, EoS and SoS didn't fully control entry. Otherwise things wouldn't have been tied up in the PWG for over 18 months. It was the SFA essentially ending the PWG that allowed them the opportunity to pursue their own course, after clubs had approached them over it.