Junior football, what is the future?

[clash city rocker]

3 hours ago, Dev said:

Interesting that your clubs' representative didn't try to deal with this isn't it! Maybe doesn't have the wit or imagination, let alone care enough, to come up with such an idea. Or are you saying that he did but his suggestion got kicked out at committee?

My clubs representative seems to be just as daft as every other clubs , they moaned about paying the cash but just went ahead and did it anyway

[gaz5]

Mate think your getting wrong end of stick here. Even the much maligned Mr Ronney will tell you a have no much time at all for SJfa. There's no point closing the gate when the horse is halfway doon the dirt track , moaning about reinstatement is fine just wish Dunipace had moaned about it whilst junior and not now when they have no influence in getting it removed. You will get no loyalty to a grade from me that it's head blazers called fans of my club scum , not once but twice , no sir.

Dunipace aren't moaning about reinstatement though, we never have.

We've no need to moan about it, we don't have to pay it.

All we've done is point out that not paying it is one of the many financial benefits not to be in the SJFA.

Not sure what your issue is with that. It's a fact.

[Guest]

Mate think your getting wrong end of stick here. Even the much maligned Mr Ronney will tell you a have no much time at all for SJfa. There's no point closing the gate when the horse is halfway doon the dirt track , moaning about reinstatement is fine just wish Dunipace had moaned about it whilst junior and not now when they have no influence in getting it removed. You will get no loyalty to a grade from me that it's head blazers called fans of my club scum , not once but twice , no sir.

We aren't moaning about it now fella. It was pointed out with regards being a positive of being a pyramid member. No moaning from me about it.

[Doonhamer1969]

5 hours ago, MrWorldwideJr said:

Its not at all no. I haven't seen you make a single argument more complex than 'Croatia/Belgium/whoever else regionalise at tier 3 and got to the world cup final so we need to regionalise at tier 3 too'. That isn't evidence based. Its forcing a correlation where you have absolutely no evidence that the two are linked because you want it to be true.

Come back with actual evidence that regionalising early in any way correlates to a more succesful national team, to more youth players from the lower tiers ending up in the national team. Come back with some sort of explanation of where all the money you think clubs will save by playing in a regional set up is coming from and demonstrate that it won't just be cancelled out by lower sponsorship/prize money/gates. Until then your argument remains an irrational failure to understand that correlation doesn't equal causation and that you don't actually have any real evidence from other countries that proves the same thing would work in Scotland.

Evidence for regionalisation at Tier 3 without reference to other countries in regard to performance of the national team etc etc.

 

Top two leagues in Scotland are (mostly) full time professional sides (91%).

Next two divisions are mostly part time professional sides (85%), 10% hybrid and 5% full time.

Regionalisation leads to more local derbies, therefore higher crowds, therefore higher revenue.

Less travelling costs for players and fans.

Ten years of austerity, stagnant wages and rising fuel costs, not to mention the climate crisis, part time clubs have to keep costs under control. 

Scotland, with less ONE tenth of the population of England has the same number of leagues. Lunacy.

The point re sponsorship isn't applicable. All four leagues have the same sponsor. Zero reason  for that not to continue. Name changes from League 1 and League 2 to League 1 North and League One South, are name changes. Nothing more and nothing less. Its still the top 4 leagues.

Ten teams get instant promotion by one tier, and everyone in the pyramid is one less promotion away from the pinnacle.

PS last year all 4 Angus clubs were in League One. When did that last happen ?? Probably pre-1975. With regionalisation it would be more frequent, or at least more frequent that more of then would be in the same league together, not necessarily all 4 (notes Brechin's plight)

Eg, if it were in place now, you'd have Stranraer v Annan, Peterhead v Elgin, Montrose+Forfar v Brechin, Airdrie v Albion etc.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Doonhamer1969
Typi

[Jacksgranda]

5 hours ago, the rambler said:

One of the main considerations for West Junior Committees is who they will be playing going forward not whether they will rise through the Pyramid. If for instance Talbot, Cumnock, Glenafton, Pollok, Kilbirnie and Beith favour staying Junior but Kilwinning, Clydebank, Medda, Largs, Rossvale, Glencairn for example favour WOSFL how will a lesser League affect income. 

I would say all of them should opt for the LL option and that concern goes away. It just takes enough Clubs to make the leap and the rest will follow. 

It's a bigger risk being left behind and joining in a few years in the bottom tier. 

I agree.

[glensmad]

Important information from the South Lanarkshire Council website for anybody attending the LL-WOSFL information meeting on Thursday night :-

"Stewartfield Way closed between A726 Queensway and Castleglen Road from Sunday 1 March to Friday 13 March for road surfacing works. Access to HMRC Centre one and the Holiday Inn will be maintained at all times from one direction. Traffic will be diverted via A726 Queensway, West Mains Road, Hawbank Roundabout, Arrotshole Road, Hawbank Road, Castleglen Road and vice versa."

Basically you need to come into the hotel from the roundabout at the A726 end of Stewartfield Way, as the rest of the road is closed. Traffic has been extremely busy in that area during rush hour times since the roadworks started last week. Give yourselves plenty of time to get there.

[Doonhamer1969]

4 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

You've pointed out countries where they regionalise at tier 3 and have success and act if that's proof but ignore all the countries who don't do that and still have successful leagues and national teams. You're are being utterly selective.

If East Fife found themselves in a regionalised league, so be it.

If we're simply talking about keeping things as they are but regionalising tiers 3 and 4 then I'm against that because it just sound like a terrible idea with no real advantage to the majority of clubs at all.

Less travelling costs for clubs and fans, more local derbies, therefore higher crowds, therefore more income and less expenditure for all concerned is a 'real advantage'.

[Guest]

Less travelling costs for clubs and fans, more local derbies, therefore higher crowds, therefore more income and less expenditure for all concerned is a 'real advantage'.

Does that actually correlate though? More local games doesnt necessarily guarantee bigger gates and less expenditure though.

In theory I can see why people like the idea but if you were to give me games vs 6 teams a season who will bring 400 fans rather than 10 games with teams who bring 200 I'd take the former every day of the week. It fully depends on who tbe clubs are, what the support size is and what a club stands to gain from it.

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

It's easy to point out that in many aspects, we are not achieving what we should or could achieve in terms of player production. Anyone could tell you that. And yes, investing in facilities and coaching would be something most would see as helping with that. That is a completely separate issue to the league structure however. Why are you trying to conflate the two?

We know you think it would be better. The benefits are clearly not that obvious to people in the game because almost nobody wants it. Why would it be better? What would be attractive about it? What measurable difference would we be able to see in 10, 15, 20 years if we just split tiers 3 and 4 into regionalised leagues?

One word answer to your 3 questions.

Brechin.

[Ginaro]

From Prorege's report on nonleaguematters: "Also in the crowd was SJFA supremo Tom Johnston who, it must be said, looked like a man with the cares of the world on his shoulders."

[Doonhamer1969]

2 hours ago, gaz5 said:

That is indeed the last time we made a semi final.

Not looking to be controversial, just comparing available competitions, but that was an "additional" cup. The South Challenge is the biggest in the region we play, so compared to the Junior cup 1979 was the last time we made that size of Semi final, comparatively.

Coldstream 1-3 Dunipace
Edinburgh United 1-2 Dunipace
Dunipace 3-1 Glenrothes Juniors
Dunipace 1-0 Bonnyrigg Rose
Caledonian Braves 0-1 Dunipace

Not been an "easy" draw to get there either. Two tough away games to start, a win against one of only two teams to beat us at home in 19 games this season, Lowland League title contenders Bonnyrigg and in Caley Braves the team who last week beat big spending East Stirling with the same starting lineup that played yesterday.

'Big spending East Stirling'...!!!!

Oh how times have changed.....

Remember the stories a few years back of them only being able to afford to pay their players £10 per week, and how it was reckoned to be less than the legal minimum wage ?

(Apologies, probably off topic)

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Less travelling costs for clubs and fans, more local derbies, therefore higher crowds, therefore more income and less expenditure for all concerned is a 'real advantage'.

If this is all true why were the West, East & North Regions created in the haven of local football, the Juniors. And why did those regions opt for more regionwide divisions instead of "districts"?

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

If this is all true why were the West, East & North Regions created in the haven of local football, the Juniors. And why did those regions opt for more regionwide divisions instead of "districts"?
 

Id agree some of our lowest gates involve clubs in the neighbouring area.

[nicotina]

There is to be a counter plan from the delegate Baldrick

his plan is even more cunning than the sjfa

[Gordon EF]

17 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

One word answer to your 3 questions.

Brechin.

You've lost me?

[Gordon EF]

24 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Less travelling costs for clubs and fans, more local derbies, therefore higher crowds, therefore more income and less expenditure for all concerned is a 'real advantage'.

Sounds great. Should we regionalise all football?

[Doonhamer1969]

12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If this is all true why were the West, East & North Regions created in the haven of local football, the Juniors. And why did those regions opt for more regionwide divisions instead of "districts"?

 

Different kettlé of fish, no comparison.

I'm talking about third tiers being regionalised.

The Junior reorganisation was done to create top tiers.

[Doonhamer1969]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

Sounds great. Should we regionalise all football?

No, just lower tiers.

[Doonhamer1969]

23 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Does that actually correlate though? More local games doesnt necessarily guarantee bigger gates and less expenditure though.

In theory I can see why people like the idea but if you were to give me games vs 6 teams a season who will bring 400 fans rather than 10 games with teams who bring 200 I'd take the former every day of the week. It fully depends on who tbe clubs are, what the support size is and what a club stands to gain from it.

Evidence is there, eg as I said, 4 Angus clubs in League One.

Came from the horses mouth, former director of Arbroath.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

No, just lower tiers.

Is that self isolation on a regional basis?