Jump to content
Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

Recommended Posts

Man city backers are now going to uefa to cite

darvel & kelty for financial foul play

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RedEd said:

True. But by the sounds of it Tayside and West Lothian will make sure that doesn't happen.

Crazy, if true

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The irony of that balloon having a go at anyone else for dragging a thread off topic
And what of SFA members Golspie Sutherland? Sources say neighbours are objecting to the installation of lights, which may prejudice their SFA license.
Planning permission has been approved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The whole concept of the Pyramid is to try and get some kind of level playing field whereby (a) non league clubs (sorry if I've offended anyone with that term!) have the ability to rise up the leagues, and find their true level, at the same time (b) giving teams who fall out of the SPFL a safety net from which to possibly regroup and try and find their way back in. Looking at how Berwick and East Stirling have done since being relegated it seems that once clubs do end up non league, having been in the SPFL, it's a long way back.
Looking at the English set up with the National League, and it's feeders the National Leagues South and North the ex league clubs are finding it increasingly difficult to get back into the League again. In the National League, just one step below the Football League there are twelve ex league teams. In the National League North there are a further five, plus Hereford who reformed after losing their place. That's a healthy set up for the non league game as far as crowds are concerned. Will it happen in Scotland? It doesn't appear likely at the minute, you'd need a big club to fall through the trap door. Berwick and East Stirling don't have large travelling supports although their home support seems to be holding up fairly well.
The SPFL has needed a clear out for donkey's years, and it now seems it's coming along big style. If either Brechin or Albion Rovers get relegated this season there doesn't appear to be any easy route back if the LL gets stronger year by year with the addition of the top ex Junior clubs. Wast at Queen of the South vs Dundee today, and it was absolute dross. A couple of Queens fans who know my affiliation with Talbot were only saying half in jest that they expected to be playing Talbot in a few years time. There's a lot of water under the bridge before anything like that could ever happen, but it's certainly not out of the question for Talbot or any other non league side now it would appear.


I’ve seen an analysis that since automatic promotion and relegation were introduced in 1987, roughly a third of Football League clubs relegated have returned, a third are still in the Conference, and a third are either at a lower level or have gone bust.

Of the 27 ex-Conference teams currently in the Football League, 18 had at least one previous spell in the EFL. So a lot of clubs are shuttling back and forwards.

No reason why this can’t happen in Scotland over time.

PS a bit OTT to claim Berwick are struggling when they haven’t even completed their first non-league season!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, calmac25 said:
11 hours ago, Marshmallo said:
The irony of that balloon having a go at anyone else for dragging a thread off topic emoji38.png
And what of SFA members Golspie Sutherland? Sources say neighbours are objecting to the installation of lights, which may prejudice their SFA license.

Planning permission has been approved

No resident's appeals were lodged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Other than Kelty and East Stirlingshire the only team that springs to mind that spends more money than usual right now is Darvel.

Darvel are in the Championship at present (T7) not the LL. The money being spent is not disproportionate as we were always needing to invest heavily in existing/new infrastructure which was “life expired” - new dressing room extension, new function suite/social club/catering/sheltered terrace/new bucket seats for main stand/pitch improvements. Yes we had a mass exodus of players at start of season and re-build project was agreed when we brought new manager in with target being promotion to premier. Regardless of pyramid/junior future - improvements would always have been made in line with our vision/strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Darvel_Marvel said:


Darvel are in the Championship at present (T7) not the LL. The money being spent is not disproportionate as we were always needing to invest heavily in existing/new infrastructure which was “life expired” - new dressing room extension, new function suite/social club/catering/sheltered terrace/new bucket seats for main stand/pitch improvements. Yes we had a mass exodus of players at start of season and re-build project was agreed when we brought new manager in with target being promotion to premier. Regardless of pyramid/junior future - improvements would always have been made in line with our vision/strategy.

Forgetting bringing facilities into the 20th century, unless the player budget is what you were spending a few years ago, that has gone up surely?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

 


I’ve seen an analysis that since automatic promotion and relegation were introduced in 1987, roughly a third of Football League clubs relegated have returned, a third are still in the Conference, and a third are either at a lower level or have gone bust.

Of the 27 ex-Conference teams currently in the Football League, 18 had at least one previous spell in the EFL. So a lot of clubs are shuttling back and forwards.

No reason why this can’t happen in Scotland over time.

PS a bit OTT to claim Berwick are struggling when they haven’t even completed their first non-league season!

Berwick have struggled this season. 8 wins in all comps from 35 games. They have lost 21/35. Whether it's a long term pattern remains to be seen but they haven't taken to life in the LL like a duck(et) to water... more like a cat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said:

Berwick have struggled this season. 8 wins in all comps from 35 games. They have lost 21/35. Whether it's a long term pattern remains to be seen but they haven't taken to life in the LL like a duck(et) to water... more like a cat.

It took Berwick a long time to adjust, not helped by boardroom upheaval over the summer. They’ve finally got a settled squad together and look like a cohesive unit - people definitely underestimate the talent level in the Lowland though. Put their current team in place at the start of the season and they’d still be outside the top 4/5 IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

It took Berwick a long time to adjust, not helped by boardroom upheaval over the summer. They’ve finally got a settled squad together and look like a cohesive unit - people definitely underestimate the talent level in the Lowland though. Put their current team in place at the start of the season and they’d still be outside the top 4/5 IMO.

I think there's a bit of a 'no fans, must be cack' POV from some less informed. BSC have a squad littered with decent ex Juniors and would be right up there in our division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Forgetting bringing facilities into the 20th century, unless the player budget is what you were spending a few years ago, that has gone up surely?


Won’t be far away, the current playing mix this season is as follows - 10 were playing amateur last year, 5 were junior and 5 were senior. But your right I would imagine it would go up when we strengthen again in the summer for moving up a level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Must be some puggy Darvel have in that social club.

One of they £25 jackpots it is with the 3 hold function, press start and collect at same time to activate double jackpot 🤪

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

I think there's a bit of a 'no fans, must be cack' POV from some less informed. BSC have a squad littered with decent ex Juniors and would be right up there in our division.

With regards to BSC, I guess the questions revolve around how they can build such a squad and hire Alloa on such relatively small crowds.

Maybe that ties in with TFW's point above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the future of junior football? Could be auchinleck being in a league with all the lower league teams winning 13-0 like the south of scotland league  

Or if they go the junior cup final could be lugar vs boness reserves. That's the future

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

Must admit I expected to see an attempted rescue plan by the juniors by now.

I expect that things are happening in the background, but if there had been a material change of circumstances or stance by any party then we would likely have heard about it by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Or if they go the junior cup final could be lugar vs boness reserves. That's the future

.....at Rugby Park in June.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, glensmad said:

I expect that things are happening in the background, but if there had been a material change of circumstances or stance by any party then we would likely have heard about it by now.

Talks over succulent lamb?  I think the next thing you'll hear is the LL opening up to formal applications for the WoSFL next week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎22‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 22:50, Che Dail said:

There are 5 small countries.  4 qualify for world tournaments, 1 does not.  the successful 4 countries structure their league football one way, the unsuccessful country structures it another way, how it's 'aye been'.

This could be a coincidence, and the way football is structured could have nothing to do with it, which seems to be your point of view.  I beg to differ.   

There is a reason FIFA promotes the pyramid structure, and it evidently works.  

ETA: I'm a boring statto at times and the following has nothing to do with the future of the juniors. Feel free to skip

I realise the conversation may have moved on from this nonsense but I like looking up stats to kill time at work so made a list of the ten countries closest to Scotland in terms of population: Bosnia, Georgie, Croatia, Ireland, Norway, Slovenia, Finland, Denmark, Serbia and Bulgaria. None of these ten countries have four national leagues before splitting regionally but that's a bit immaterial. What's more important is the number of clubs they have before regional splits.

Bosnia's only national division is their top tier which has an average attendance of 1,793. This is the highest average attendance before any of the eleven nations goes regional. In return their national team is higher ranked than Scotland's but their league system is not. It's a bit of a red herring as about half of their regular squad players (+25 caps and included in last squad) actually came through youth systems outside Bosnia due to the Bosnian diaspora caused by the Yugoslav war. Of the ones remaining the vast majority all came through the same club: Zelicnicar. Because of their league system being an outlier and the different way in which their national team has brought players through they can be discounted.

Of the nine remaining they all do a regional split (or their league system ends) after two national leagues. Scotland, with 42 "national" clubs has more than the next closest (Norway, Serbia and Bulgaria all have 32). Georgia and Ireland only has 20 with the rest in the middle.

Speaking, again, of outliers, Finland and Norway have population densities of 14 and 16 people per km squared. Scotland is sitting about average on 68. Having national league systems for such scattered populations in such large countries is probably impossible when you reach the level/crowds in these countries so we're discounting them as well. For what it's worth Norway's last national tier has average attendances of 1,444 and Finland's has 885. There is a HUGE drop off in attendances below this. It is possible to get from  Inverness to Dumfries and back in a day. It is just not possible to get from the main, southern, population centres of these countries to the main northern population centres in the same time frame.

So of the seven remaining only one has a higher co-efficient than Scotland and that's Denmark who also have a higher ranked national team. They have a higher population density in comparison (135) but they also have a strange geography with an island being the main population centre and it makes geographic sense, especially back when the Danish league was created, to split it along these lines. Denmark's 2nd tier has an average attendance of 1,346 but, again, there's a huge drop off to third tier with average attendances around 348.

Aside from Denmark the only other nations with a higher international ranking are Ireland and Croatia. Ireland are, again, an outlier like Bosnia as not a single one of their squad players came through the Irish league system. For what it's worth Ireland's lowest national tier has an average attendance of 488. Croatia's lowest tier is 443 but, as previously mentioned, they have a strange geography which makes a national league system at the level below impossible. Like Bosnia and Ireland the also have players who came through in foreign nations or through one exceptional youth system at Dinamo Zagreb.

Now, with the lowest national tier average attendance in brackets, that leaves Georgia (407), Slovenia (277), Serbia (620) and Bulgaria (271) who, according to UEFA, have a lower standard national team and national league who we can make a direct comparison with Scotland with. Ireland (488) and Croatia (443)  have a better national team but it is little to do with their league system which ranked lower than ours. Only Denmark (1,346) can claim to be the better of Scotland when making reasonable comparisons to country size and geography and even that is at a stretch considering the maritime geography of the place.

The truth is only Denmark, of those nations, possibly have the ability to extend their national league system. Poor crowds, geography and population density just make it impossible for those we can compare ourselves to by population. Our lowest national tier has average attendance of 497 which is the lower end of the scale across Europe but not noticeably so. It's probably the same figure Denmark would have if their better 3rd tier teams had a national league and the better supported clubs gravitated toward it. Also, of the eleven nations mentioned, Scoland has, comfortably, the highest average attendance in their national league system.

If you want to compare us with anyone the only possible comparison is Denmark really. Now you need to prove their better record in UEFA competition and in international competition is because players don't travel from Aalborg to Copenhagen twice a year in the third division.

Edited by AsimButtHitsASix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...