Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

I agree! Don’t you agree too [mention=23798]The Mantis[/mention]? Sure [mention=25791]newcastle broon[/mention] will have something to say about the subject [emoji2960][emoji23]

Hey, I know hee haw about the Finnish 3rd Division or the average attendances of Dinamo Shite of the Croatian regional leagues.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

The relationship between the new WoS and the SoS leagues will also be interesting to see evolving. The SoS bar maybe Threave and Bonnyton don't seem interested in progressing to the LL so I can see a state of affairs where the SoS becomes a feeder league / subordinate to the new WoS. Clearly it will be in standard if the big junior names move over to populate the new set up.

Part of that is going to be Dalbeattie Star and Gretna 2008 facing relegation from the Lowland League. They might prefer heading to the WoSFL.

Maybe one day even Caledonian Braves getting relegated to Tier 6 WoSFL while potentially having a reserve side in Tier 6 SoSFL. 

 

[The Mantis]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

That burnieman gets everywhere these days

I agree! Don’t you agree too @The Mantis? Sure @newcastle broon will have something to say about the subject 

The 70s? Before my time M77

Edited February 24, 2020 by The Mantis

[Born To Run]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Not a surprising answer from St Anthony's given the person's surname, and going by his twitter conversations!

Would be good to have someone from Bonnyrigg on the LL podcast to talk about their season, they seem to be getting less coverage with you guys having links to Kelty, ES, BSC.

It’s currently in the works just recorded a few bits with Shire too!

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

I'm personally looking forward to the new WoS and the finalising of the line up in the EoS, as far as the juniors go.

There may be a few big names who refuse to move (Tayport perhaps the biggest) but it seems a bleak future awaits them outside of the pyramid. Not sure how sustainable the junior grade will be in a few years.

The relationship between the new WoS and the SoS leagues will also be interesting to see evolving. The SoS bar maybe Threave and Bonnyton don't seem interested in progressing to the LL so I can see a state of affairs where the SoS becomes a feeder league / subordinate to the new WoS. Clearly it will be in standard if the big junior names move over to populate the new set up.

This is my main thing, I'm seriously looking forward to see some well known juniors interact with some other teams in a new WOS league and divisions and cup games. Think there will be so much interest and curiosity that will make it's possibilities take off and a lot of the junior teams who stay junior next season will begin to realise the chance to jump on the adventure shouldn't be left for another season.  

I'm also looking forward to seeing the Youth development league take off in the West as well, giving a lot of lads the dreams of a senior pathway is in their grasp but they know commitment and attitude need sot be right.

Yeah , genuinely looking forward to it all

[Doonhamer1969]

7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I predict 25 west region clubs and around 5 others have expressed formal interest and indicated they will apply.

I'm going for 30 ish West clubs going to WoS.

Just a hunch.

Nearly makes 2 leagues at junior and two leagues in WoS.

[Che Dail]

3 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

Gary Lloyd of the (old) Barry Town was called up by managerial genius, Bobby Gould, in the late 90s.

Eifion Williams I think played for the U-21s whilst playing for Cemaes Ynys Mon.

Er, that's it. Welsh national team managers pay lip service to the league but no one ever gets picked from even the top teams. That's because the Nomads and TNS are on a par with the bottom of our champtionship / top end league one...bottom half of the league on a par with our League 2, or Lowland. It'd be like expecting Stevie Clarke to include players from Airdrie or Raith in his international squad.

 

TNS* beat Kilmarnock in Europe over 2 legs.  

At least Steve Clarke wasn't the manager at the time.

See this, good article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/23/wales-clubs-europa-league-the-new-saints-connahs-quay-nomads

*correction: Connah's Quay Nomads bt Killie

Edited February 24, 2020 by Che Dail

[Robert James]

14 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

This is my main thing, I'm seriously looking forward to see some well known juniors interact with some other teams in a new WOS league and divisions and cup games. Think there will be so much interest and curiosity that will make it's possibilities take off and a lot of the junior teams who stay junior next season will begin to realise the chance to jump on the adventure shouldn't be left for another season.  

I'm also looking forward to seeing the Youth development league take off in the West as well, giving a lot of lads the dreams of a senior pathway is in their grasp but they know commitment and attitude need sot be right.

Yeah , genuinely looking forward to it all

Yes, the West of Scotland League will be an excellent extension of the pyramid, which gives clubs a choice : join or stay junior.

Also, West Juniors will see that another half a dozen  ex-ERJFA clubs, will receive their first SFA licence, in time to enter the Scottish Cup in 2020/21.   (The Licensing Committee is scheduled to meet on Weds).    Another positive  pyramid benefit, for ambitious West clubs.

[Guest Moomintroll]

TNS beat Kilmarnock in Europe over 2 legs.  
At least Steve Clarke wasn't the manager at the time.
See this, good article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/23/wales-clubs-europa-league-the-new-saints-connahs-quay-nomads

Say what now?

[Che Dail]

Just now, Moomintroll said:

20 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

TNS beat Kilmarnock in Europe over 2 legs.  
At least Steve Clarke wasn't the manager at the time.
See this, good article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/23/wales-clubs-europa-league-the-new-saints-connahs-quay-nomads

Say what now?

What

[Ivo den Bieman]

TNS did not beat Killie. Connah’s Quay did.

[Guest Moomintroll]

TNS did not beat Killie. Connah’s Quay did.

That was my point, nevertheless still ruddy embarassing mind.

[Che Dail]

5 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

TNS did not beat Killie. Connah’s Quay did.

Oh aye. Typo, sorry  

Same point tho: Pishy result for our best outwith the old firm.

 

[Ivo den Bieman]

CQN are very good at what they do and have a top manager. Caught Killie at the right time with a new coach who barely spoke English and who the players clearly didn’t take to.

Embarrassing pish, sure. Killie complacent and CQN played out their skins.

[Ginaro]

Lanark United committee member having trouble understanding why Rosyth are moving to the EoS...

 

[Che Dail]

6 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

CQN are very good at what they do and have a top manager. Caught Killie at the right time with a new coach who barely spoke English and who the players clearly didn’t take to.

Embarrassing pish, sure. Killie complacent and CQN played out their skins.

Gordon Sawers  tho  

[Che Dail]

10 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Lanark United committee member having trouble understanding why Rosyth are moving to the EoS...

 

He headed a LOT of footballs as a child.

The new legislation is gonny save hundreds if not thousands of brains 

[Spyro]

Oh dear... 

[GordonS]

9 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

No wonder if the Norwegian version of Golspie Sutherland are flying to Oslo every other weekend

https://www.facebook.com/596966367135654/posts/svalbard-football-treinning-photosvidar-anderersen-svalbard-turn-team-/1068534556645497/

 

9 hours ago, morley said:

All the chat if national or regional leagues equals international success for me misses the point. The key is there being development routes for players to follow right from ameteur/boys club to the top. When Scotland was most successful in the 60, 70, 80s, you look at those players and almost all of them spent their mid to late teens learning and playing competitive men's football for their local junior/non league/smaller senior teams before moving straight to big Scottish or English clubs. What changed was that in the late 80s the big Scottish clubs started picking the best young talents at 10/11 years old where they would spend the next 6 years playing bounce games, made into robots, and forgetting the fun, instead of letting the players develop with their mates playing for their local home sides. For me it doesn't matter if lower leagues are regional or national, the key is there being a development ladder players can follow which a true pyramid system starts to put back in place having been lost 30 years ago. Its very early days but there is already suggestions things are changing in the LL/EOS region where over the past few years started seeing spfl scouts coming to watch games when did that last happen? , spfl clubs are starting to lend young players out the these clubs. Also seen non leaugue pyramid youth teams doing well in the Scottish Youth cup as they qualify with being senior. Once a proper pyramid is in place across all of Scotland creating that link all the way to grass roots football from the top that is when you maybe start seeing more international success, not because a league is regional or national, but because a pyramid route will be in place that young players can follow. 

I totally disagree with that.

The big change wasn't something that happened in Scotland, it's that other countries started taking coaching seriously and there was a huge leap forward in the technique levels of players, especially from middle and lower ranking countries.

While our 11 years olds were told they were a left back, played 50 full-size competitive matches a year and screamed at if they lost the ball, their 11 year olds were playing 3, 4, 5 a sides, never fully competitive, and being coached in how to control the ball with your back to an opponent.

Where I think the pyramid might have a role is that there may be a much bigger focus among clubs on youth development, as we've seen in the LL, EoS and SoS with the under 20s league. It's typical for towns in Western Europe to have one club running youth teams at every age grade, under qualified coaches. Our equivalents don't even have reserves. In the Dutch equivalent of my own town, Linlithgow, there would be a club with 3 or 4 pitches and large youth squads under a UEFA licensed coach. Unless things have changed recently, we have some school teams with sod all coaching and a few amateur community teams being taken by one player's da. 

One thing did happen in Scotland though - the numbers playing football dried up. While other countries have taken huge steps to counter that, how much fun do you think it is for an 11 year old to play in a team that gets humped every week in competitive games on full sized pitches and hardly touches the ball? But that kid could easily grow up to be, at least, a Paul Lambert. Instead, they get fed up and do something else with their Saturdays.

 

9 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Scotland is, for its size, history, financial power and attendances is doing about average. We see Croatia, Slovenia, Iceland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Belgium, etc have golden generations and have a great 5-10 years and say "WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT?" while completely ignoring the fact that each of these teams have, at some point in the last 30 years, also been total gubbins. It's cyclical to a degree. There will, almost always, be another "wee" nation doing better than us but we focus on them and ignore the dozen or so similar sized nations we're doing better than.
 

Yeah, totally disagreeing with that too. For the number of players and clubs, for our size as a footballing country, we are huge underachievers. (As are our neighbours down south, who ought to have won as much as France, Spain and Italy, yet lag behind Czechia).

Out of that list I'd say Belgium are the closest we have to a peer in football. (Slovenia is less than half our size and the average attendance in their top league is less than Arbroath are averaging this season!) Belgium have reached two World Cup semi-finals, one quarter final, one round of 12 and three rounds of 16. In European Championships they have a final, a semi-final and a quarter final.

Scotland have never played a single knock-out match at a tournament finals. We used to be First Plane Home, now we're What's A Tournament? We've done nothing, ever, in nearly a century of serious international football. We haven't even made it to a play-off since 2005 and we're only talking about Euro 2020 because we had access to the League C back-door.

In fact, every country on your list except tiny Slovenia has gone further in tournaments than us.

As for cyclical, when was our cycle last upwards? I would say we have been going continuously downhill since 1992 in terms of performance, and continuously downhill since the early 80s in quality of player.

 

Does this have anything to do with "the future of the Juniors"? Maybe, if clubs start seeing themselves more about being the apex of football progression in their community and less about results on a Saturday afternoon. But I doubt it.

[Black Pennel]

Burnie Man...I don't really know how or why it has got to this...but...as wee Melanie said... "Look what they've done to your thread, man...Look what they've done to your thread".

For the love of all things reasonable...Kill it now !!

Put it out of its misery....