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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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Jeezo there's cxxts oan  now want to reorganize world fitba ! Get a grip it's aboot a wosl nothing more and who do they think they are the sos league has been there for many years leave it be!

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21 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Why even debate Forfar and Elgin? They're not significant in the great scheme of things and in my opinion do not really gain anything by playing in a national league.

I was going to write quite a long rebuttal here over the debate that’s being going on today but there’s been some good points made and I don’t want to derail things much further.    I’ll take this point tho cos I think it forms the basis of the argument, you want to ignore these teams and what works for them for ideas of national side or the coefficient which don’t matter to these clubs.

its been mentioned but it’s really worth reinforcing, the pyramid needs set up so it works the clubs that play at each level and national football for the clubs in league 1/2 absolutely works, it worked a century ago and it’s working now, i mentioned earlier that it’s not up debate and it’s not NONE of those clubs would change it and nothing will change without them wanting it

EDIT-  to try and bring things back on topic if you see the tweets rosyth are putting out the they look 100% in for EoS

 

 

 

Edited by parsforlife

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2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I was going to write quite a long rebuttal here over the debate that’s being going on today but there’s been some good points made and I don’t want to derail things much further.    I’ll take this point tho cos I think it forms the basis of the argument, you want to ignore these teams and what works for them for ideas of national side or the coefficient which.

its been mentioned but it’s really worth reinforcing, the pyramid needs set up for so it works the clubs that play at each level and national football for the clubs in league 1/2 absolutely works, it worked a century ago and it’s working now, i mentioned earlier that it’s not up debate and it’s not NONE of those clubs would change it and nothing will change without them wanting it

Didn't work for teams in the old third division in the 1920's.

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2 hours ago, gogsy said:

Wonder what the big team of all those Talbot supporters is , because that sounds like the supporters of a SPFL team on a smaller scale.

Mine's Grimsby Town. Hardly big in the grand scheme of things?

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56 minutes ago, pyramidiot said:

You are a supporter of a club like Clydebank [picked as the loudest supporter of pyramid in the west and nothing else]. To get promoted you need to beat the winner of EoS and winner of SoS in a three way play-off like the EoS play off of 18/19. Why would it bother you that one game is against a team that you consider so weak?! That’s sure a bonus! It means you have to win your league and win a one off game plus a game against a team you already labelled ‘a pub team’.

Probably the worst example you could have used. I don’t know a single bankies fan who has an issue with where the SoS teams are in the pyramid. We simply want a route available that allows us to improve to whatever level we can.

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Probably the worst example you could have used. I don’t know a single bankies fan who has an issue with where the SoS teams are in the pyramid. We simply want a route available that allows us to improve to whatever level we can.

Yep, id rather have some of the sosl teams than some of the west region ones.

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Probably the worst example you could have used. I don’t know a single bankies fan who has an issue with where the SoS teams are in the pyramid. We simply want a route available that allows us to improve to whatever level we can.



Haha, I knew I would pick the wrong team as an example - but let that not detract from the point.

There are people here who have gone from saying they don’t want to be in the pyramid to now moaning that other teams need to be moved to another level. I see no requirement for SoS to be moved to a lower tier. I am almost certain it’s not as strong as EoS or a WoS but it doesn’t impact the teams who join the WoS or EoS in the slightest.

Sorry for upsetting any bankies... the example was arbitrary!

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19 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Didn't work for teams in the old third division in the 1920's.

It didn’t but that was when the SFL got over excited.  If worked well with 40 clubs before the third division and it worked well with 40 clubs after,  it’s about that number that works for us as a nation.  

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4 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Why should , say , a current West League One side moving over to the new WoS get an easier ride than an ambitious SoS team ?

 

They shouldn't. They should be treated equally. By putting them in leagues with each other, finding out who is best and promoting/relegating accordingly.

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1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


Yep, id rather have some of the sosl teams than some of the west region ones.

Correct the pyramid is there to find your level and I think your side would do well in the SOSL, maybe even win it.

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4 hours ago, GordonS said:

Most of the population of Perth & Kinross is in the EoS/ LL territory too. 

Tbh, local authority boundaries areas are a poor way of dividing up the country. They're mostly arbitrary slices created by the Tories in the mid-90s to destroy the power of Strathclyde Regional Council and to gerrymander themselves some councils they thought they could control. They deprived Glasgow of its suburbs and scooped the poor people into big councils. Glasgow's boundaries are laughable, wriggling out to take in Easterhouse, Possil, Drumchapel, Castlemilk and Darnley but carving out Clarkston, Burnside, Ralston and Beasden. East Renfrewshire is a joke, so too is East Dunbartonshire. Dundee and Edinburgh have similar. 

They're also awkward chunks to work with because they're too big.

IMO it's better to slice it up using transport routes. For example, in your map putting Cumbernauld in the south but Glasgow in the west doesn't work as they'd be passing through Glasgow to most of their matches. 

Anyway. This is waaaaay off topic. 

Offtopic indeed, but I agree with you about the madness of local authority boundaries. Look at Dundee for example. Invergowrie is Perth & Kinross, yet they use many Dundee local services and are very much focused on Dundee, far more so than Perth. I live in Lochee, but close to the boundary with Invergowrie. When I take a train to Glasgow, it's actually the easiest to walk to Invergowrie station and take the train from there (although the service from Invergowrie is very limited, but that's a different discussion and is apparently changing in the near future), that's way quicker than going into Dundee city centre first and then taking a train from there.

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5 minutes ago, Hossy87 said:

What league are these guys going to?

I can just  imagine the visiting supporters singing "Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way, oh what fun it is to see 5th Kirkcudbrightshire Rifle Volunteers win away".  Bit of a mouthful.

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7 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Yes. There is also geographical overlap - the SoS is a small section of WoS territory. Integrate the two leagues and let The Dog & Duck sides from farming villages in Dumfries compete against Talbot, Pollok, Kilwinning etc. They'll soon enough find their appropriate level.

Your derisory jibes aimed at the SOSFL are pretty pathetic and describing places as farming villages simply is in incredibly poor taste ! As you’ve been asked before I’ll repeat , do you actually know anything about the South , it’s member clubs or any of its playing staff ????

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4 hours ago, GordonS said:

Most of the population of Perth & Kinross is in the EoS/ LL territory too. 

Tbh, local authority boundaries areas are a poor way of dividing up the country. They're mostly arbitrary slices created by the Tories in the mid-90s to destroy the power of Strathclyde Regional Council and to gerrymander themselves some councils they thought they could control. They deprived Glasgow of its suburbs and scooped the poor people into big councils. Glasgow's boundaries are laughable, wriggling out to take in Easterhouse, Possil, Drumchapel, Castlemilk and Darnley but carving out Clarkston, Burnside, Ralston and Beasden. East Renfrewshire is a joke, so too is East Dunbartonshire. Dundee and Edinburgh have similar. 

They're also awkward chunks to work with because they're too big.

IMO it's better to slice it up using transport routes. For example, in your map putting Cumbernauld in the south but Glasgow in the west doesn't work as they'd be passing through Glasgow to most of their matches. 

Anyway. This is waaaaay off topic. 

Yeah. Absolutely any way it's sliced will have positives and negatives. I also done two way and three way splits with emphasis on population parity at just to see how things looked as a thought experiment at the time. Also for my own amusement on football manager editor.

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16 minutes ago, Hossy87 said:

Reading through pages and pages of this thread and the disparaging comments towards the South League is frankly embarrassing.  

We have a league that caters for football from Gretna to Stranraer.  Yes, we may not have clubs that are of the same standard as some East Teams or Juniors, but so what? We've always been accommodating towards teams looking to get their foot in the door and offer nothing but a foundation to play football and progress.  We have 4 licensed clubs and other clubs within looking to spend time money and effort to do the same. 

Maybe some clubs aspirations aren't to get the the LL or SPFL. Maybe we know our level, but maybe there are some who might want to give it a bloody good try.  

We are at T6, and whatever the future holds for our level we will deal with it. If any team in the South want to go to the WoSL I can assure you the other clubs will support them; because that's what's we do.

 

Good post, this is why I don't like the disrespect towards the SoSFL shown by some people here. Yes, there is an argument to be made that in the long term the SoSFL represent too small an area to be at tier 6, but the league has played a vital part in establishing the pyramid, a bit more respect is due. Ultimately, the league will have to drop down I think, but it should only be done in a way that's fair for its members, like by giving the clubs a chance in the WoSFL tier 6 conferences. If that doesn't work out, they can go back into the SoSFL at tier 7. That's just one possible solution, but I'm sure common sense will prevail.

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19 minutes ago, Hossy87 said:

Reading through pages and pages of this thread and the disparaging comments towards the South League is frankly embarrassing.  

We have a league that caters for football from Gretna to Stranraer.  Yes, we may not have clubs that are of the same standard as some East Teams or Juniors, but so what? We've always been accommodating towards teams looking to get their foot in the door and offer nothing but a foundation to play football and progress.  We have 4 licensed clubs and other clubs within looking to spend time money and effort to do the same. 

Maybe some clubs aspirations aren't to get the the LL or SPFL. Maybe we know our level, but maybe there are some who might want to give it a bloody good try.  

We are at T6, and whatever the future holds for our level we will deal with it. If any team in the South want to go to the WoSL I can assure you the other clubs will support them; because that's what's we do.

 

This is a very reasonable and well balanced post. The league absolutely has a right to exist in some form and giving teams a platform to play football is only a good thing. 

My issue is with the argument that it is deserving of a place at tier 6 just because. That to me is clearly not sustainable or in the best interests of anyone going forward.

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