Junior football, what is the future?

[glensmad]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

and, again, lose Scottish Cup entry and money.

Fair point. 

[Dev]

7 minutes ago, Cornishman said:

I'd like to counterpoint this, if I may?

As my name implies, I'm a sassenach, but I am familially connected in the deep past with the Gordons [Clan] of Huntly. My first and foremost love in fitba is Yeovil Town FC (Somerset), presently plying trade in the English National League Premier. YTFC had been playing in the EFL since 2003, even managing one season in The Championship before returning from whence they came at the end of last season.

The Glovers (their nickname, the club having long been associated with the local Petter's glovemakers - they used to be named 'Yeovil & Petter's United FC' - were; before 2003; best known as 'The Non-League Giantkillers' and despite having put themselves up for election to the FL 26 times between 1946 and 1976, had never succeeded in attaining acceptance into that august body. They had enjoyed decades of being acknowledged as the unofficial 'Kings of the Non-League game'... which all changed in May 2003. They won The Football Conference and thus direct promotion into the EFL. 

The point I'm making is that I see among many Talbot people the very same qualms and trepidation that we Glovers' supporters entertained back in 2003. Getting 'ripped out' of our safe-haven and comfort zone, our giantkilling epithet being sacrificed - and all for what? Well, looking at where we are this season 'nothing' might be a tempting answer! However, in sixteen years we've been given one helluva roller-coaster ride... would I swap it for the auld status quo? Never in a million years! Even if it continues downhill from here, no-one can take away the awful lows and fantastic highs of our journey. It's recommended!

so AT's great history would still be there. It cannot be deleted. However, there is the chance to make even more history, isn't there?

[theesel1994]

1 hour ago, Junior Pub League said:

So the all in mandate was in 2002!!!! The mandate is the same age as Billie Eilish 

 

So what was the vote at the 2018 AGM about? The person from Kilwinning posted something about 120ish out of 125 voted in favour of. (I really should take a note of these things when they are posted on here given how fast these pages add up).

[Sancho Panza]

26 minutes ago, Marten said:

Imagine that the East champions aren't licensed while the West and South ones are but neither wants to get promoted and both try to deliberately lose the play-off. That could be quite an amusing tie for spectators.

Could be real scenario.

[Sancho Panza]

39 minutes ago, Dev said:

But, looking ahead to the future, whether Junior or Senior, it's time to try to move on from that?

It would be good if a club such as yours chose to open up the chance to play each season in the Scottish Cup etc. They would be missed by the others which are thought to be moving.

Must have missed something?

[peasy23]

So what was the vote at the 2018 AGM about? The person from Kilwinning posted something about 120ish out of 125 voted in favour of. (I really should take a note of these things when they are posted on here given how fast these pages add up).

It was purely to decide if the Juniors should try to join the pyramid or not, there were no conditions attached regarding each region so the assumption was made that it was still an all or nothing scenario.

[theesel1994]

2 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

22 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

So what was the vote at the 2018 AGM about? The person from Kilwinning posted something about 120ish out of 125 voted in favour of. (I really should take a note of these things when they are posted on here given how fast these pages add up).

It was purely to decide if the Juniors should try to join the pyramid or not, there were no conditions attached regarding each region so the assumption was made that it was still an all or nothing scenario.

I thought they'd already agreed to that in 2002?

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, parkcircus said:

Who was hanging on who’s coat tails in the 90s? teams have there moments.

Clubs in the west looking down on others because they're in the same league as Auchinleck Talbot. Hardly anyone is doing that, of course, and especially not on here.

[GordonS]

8 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

Is it not the SFA that have not delivered??

No, none of this is the SFA's fault at all. They're the least influential of the parties to this - they can't force the SJFA, the LL or the EoS to do things.

[AlanCamelonfan]

I saw jc from fauldhouse say with speaking to other managers could be at least 10 going. So what happens to those left? ,if all of fife go and its just west Lothian he thought theyd go back with tayside but would probably be better joining up with west and tayside join with the north and potentially go into pyramid that way

[Marshmallo]

12 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

I thought they'd already agreed to that in 2002?

I was in primary school in 2002. I'm nearly 30 now. I'm still a VL right enough.

A lot can change in 18 years.

[Tutankhamen]

6 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Wouldn't that lead to the increased travelling that many say is an issue. with the pyramid?

It might be a case of having no other choice if the bulk of the club's walk from the West Region.

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Apologies if I'm confusing you with another on here but did you not say you only started following Junior football in the last ten year or so because you enjoyed the cheaper price/less travel/stand where you want, etc?

If your club did advance through the leagues do you think that you'd start lower down again? Find another local non-league side to follow? (not a dig. Just idle curiosity)

I started following them 20 years ago soon after I moved to Linlithgow, and Linlithgow Rose became my only team (for a variety of reasons) around 2008-ish. So you're probably not far wrong.

Yes, price is a big factor for me, as is standing, not having a prescribed seat, no segregation, no bag search on the way in etc. I followed a successful premier league team until I was over 30 and I find following Linlithgow Rose massively more enjoyable than that ever was. You don't get the same rush but it's much happier, you feel more part of it, you're not just a customer.

If Linlithgow Rose ended up in an all-seater ground, charging over £20 a game, I think I'd be a glory-hunter and only go to the most important games, and I'd spend more of my Saturdays watching someone else like Linlithgow Rose CFC. I just can't justify to myself spending that much of my family's money on my own interests, when it's not something I would enjoy nearly as much as I'm enjoying it now.

I've already done it with Scotland games - I used to go to every home game, then every home competitive game, then when they hiked the prices for the campaign that began with Georgia at Ibrox I went to 2 games, and I haven't been back since the Poland game. I'm going the play-off in March, in large part because they've cut the prices to what seems fair to me.

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded answer, some of that was just thinking out loud. It's very, very unlikely it's something I'd ever need to worry about.

[Marten]

2 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

No they’re not anymore special than any other club, what they are is a well run community club who have a very hard working board and have become the dominant force in the Juniors pyramid which is a very good achievement they should be applauded for.

They’re in no rush to lead the charge to join the pyramid as they can really only lose by joining. At present they win trophies most seasons and any season they don’t sees them battling for the league or a cup final this in turn brings fans out as like every club, fans come out for a winning team.

If they join a WOSFL they’ll get promoted for the first few seasons and could go as high as league 1 however they cannot become a dominant force due to their size and the greatest they could realistically achieve is to emulate Brechin when they relegated ourselves in the playoff to become a Championship club.

The problem for them is once they go up they’ll inevitably find a level that is beyond them and the gap is too big to bridge that will then see seasons of defeats and relegations and they’ll become another “also ran club” Once they find their level they’ll like the rest of us see a couple of trophies a decade if they’re lucky and their fan base will probably reduce while they sit mid-table in league 1, league 2 or the Lowland League.

This isn’t a go at Talbot as their board do a fantastic job and at present the SJFA with access to the Scottish cup works well for them but the reality is they’ll probably lose due to the pyramid and will be between a rock and a hard place if the other clubs go. You can’t dominate any level of a pyramid except the top as you’ll move up and down it, only Celtic and Rangers will ever consistently win trophies.

Stay Junior and the competition will be weaker and they’ll start to lose players to WOSFL clubs, go Senior and become an “also ran club”

 

Fair point and I can understand why Talbot fans are a bit unsure about this situation. I have been critical about Talbot on here but from their point of view it's going to be quite some change. I personally expect that after some time of getting used to it, they will embrace the change and look forward to new challenges, but it's going to be a big change for them and the step for smaller clubs to move in an attempt to improve themselves is a bit easier. They have less to lose.

That's why I don't like to see some people attacking Talbot on here. But that works both ways, I've also seen some Talbot fans (and other fans, not just Talbot!) disrespecting other leagues & smaller clubs. Neither is helpful.

[LongTimeLurker]

24 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

I saw jc from fauldhouse say with speaking to other managers could be at least 10 going. So what happens to those left? ,if all of fife go and its just west Lothian he thought theyd go back with tayside but would probably be better joining up with west and tayside join with the north and potentially go into pyramid that way

They could still run a south section with ten if ten left, but into double figures could easily be higher than that at which point it would become farcical if something like 7 or 8 are left. Also worth bearing in mind that four of those remaining could easily be the Sauchie, Bo'ness and Lithgae tribute acts and Syngenta.

[Burnie_man]

On 10/03/2019 at 12:53, Burnie_man said:

Correct. He only has a mandate to move everyone into the Pyramid as a block and keep the SJFA structure intact. It's been like that for a decade or more. That clearly means all in or not in, but no doubt it will be spun in order to avoid an egm.

Bumped again given it's cropped up in debate.  It was 2001, not 2002

Edited February 17, 2020 by Burnie_man

[theesel1994]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Bumped again given it's cropped up in debate.  It was 2001, not 2002

When those East Region clubs left in 2018 you would have thought he'd realise that what was left could no longer be considered Tier 6 Clubs and it would make sense for the East Region to feed into the EoSL. But no, this stubbornness will lead to the West Region going down the same route and the SJFA will go from having around 170 clubs not too long ago to under 100.

[ShrimpLok]

31 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Bumped again given it's cropped up in debate.  It was 2001, not 2002

Cambuslang interested in the final paragraph there...

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

When those East Region clubs left in 2018 you would have thought he'd realise that what was left could no longer be considered Tier 6 Clubs and it would make sense for the East Region to feed into the EoSL. But no, this stubbornness will lead to the West Region going down the same route and the SJFA will go from having around 170 clubs not too long ago to under 100.

"We have an enviable product which we will continue to improve and enhance" that was in 2008.

Of course, no tangible improvements and enhancements happened (perhaps beyond league restructures, but those were Region initiatives) but it gives you an insight into the mindset when the LL began to be discussed. 

The attitude was of superiority and that the Juniors could have a Superleague alongside the LL at tier 5, and the LL was inferior, nobody in their right mind would want to join, therefore we are not getting involved and if you do fancy it, expect to join the Juniors at the bottom if you want to come crawling back.

If the attitude had been one of co-operation with the LL (4 spots were available to Junior clubs right from the off) and offering up auto promotion/relegation spots from WRJFA and ERJFA Superleagues, then this thread wouldn't exist but the SJFA wanted Tier 5 or nothing.  They got nothing.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

If the attitude had been one of co-operation with the LL (4 spots were available to Junior clubs right from the off) and offering up auto promotion/relegation spots from WRJFA and ERJFA Superleagues, then this thread wouldn't exist but the SJFA wanted Tier 5 or nothing.  They got nothing.

Considering the first season of the HL/LL at tier 5 had no promotion/relegation it would, in retrospect, been a great opportunity for the EoS/SoS/Juniors to come up something to create a combined pyramid. Looking at the brilliant efforts of the East of Scotland with their conference set up to bring folk in it shows full co-operation at the time could have lead to something great.

Ach well. Worth it in the end just for the tears and snotters from that junior guy on twitter about traitors to the grade.