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Junior football, what is the future?

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1 minute ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

If the SJFA goes tits up wil the WOSL league favour teams like Darvel Whitletts  etc ahead of the likes of Beith and Hurlford  etc because the expressed interest early?

If it goes like it did in the east, entry for teams leaving the SJFA after the first season will be at tier 7 or lower, so it's best to get in early.

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If the SJFA goes tits up wil the WOSL league favour teams like Darvel Whitletts  etc ahead of the likes of Beith and Hurlford  etc because the expressed interest early?
Given how the EOS expansion went I'd put decent money on everyone who meets criteria being accepted then 20/21 being a transitional season.

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4 minutes ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

If the SJFA goes tits up wil the WOSL league favour teams like Darvel Whitletts  etc ahead of the likes of Beith and Hurlford  etc because the expressed interest early?

If Beith and Hurlford express an interest or apply I am sure there will be a rational decision process made to allow them entry.  Given the success the EoS made with the influx of teams to the East and conferencing team I'd expect a similar outcome. 

No clubs will be treated greater than another but there will need to be certain standards and requirements met.  

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You always get dividing line issues when building a pyrmaid top down, rather than bottom up.

If it had been done properly from the start you have a number of local leagues, at the bottom tier. each local league promotes into a regional league.

ie a South Ayrshire FA should govern local amatuers leagues etc, a full Ayrshire FA would govern semi pro up to a point then taken over by a West Scotland FA then into LL. Then every club from Amatuer up to Professional is firstly asscoiated with their local FA which then ties them into the associations above in hte pyramid. It dosnt necessarily have to be done on council lines.

It may be worth trying to resurrect in some way the old local FA's and use that as a deciding factor in where clubs go - ie if you want to go senior you first have to join a local FA as an associate member, until such times as you go through licensing and become a full member.

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Yet Greenock and Largs trade players / coaches season after season.

 

That’s not a rivalry - as you claimed they’d miss out on - but rather a distinctly one-sided trading relationship given that Greenock are Central region permadiddies. There’s nothing to stop them still being a feeder club to larger teams while staying in the rump juniors.

 

The purpose of the pyramid is to bring all clubs together - and 'senior' is a crappy title anyway. It's just football.

 

No that’s not the purpose: the objective is to provide a clear path for any club that wants to progress up the pyramid to do so; whether they all play under the same umbrella body is irrelevant. You’d be as well claiming that amateur leagues should be disbanded in the event of Oban or Glasgow Uni entering the new league.

 

There’s a place for a rump junior league as well as amateur divisions in west-central Scotland for clubs that don’t want to participate in the pyramid food chain. So long as their league’s blazers don’t have the power to stop clubs from moving to the pyramid setup at a later date then that’s a suitable outcome for everyone.

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So if the deciding factor is the location of the registered ground, how do we deal with the situation where a club temporarily ground sharing is relegated to the EoSL (e.g. BSC) and then returns to its natural home in the WoSL?

PS the Luncarty discussion is so fascinating I think the mods should create a separate thread for it

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14 minutes ago, The Ilford Drummer said:

If the SJFA goes tits up wil the WOSL league favour teams like Darvel Whitletts  etc ahead of the likes of Beith and Hurlford  etc because the expressed interest early?

I doubt the SJFA will disappear completely. It's not a poor organisation and the SJFA rump after an exodus can still serve the remaining clubs that don't want to move (presumably mainly smaller clubs that are now in WRJFA L1/L2). Just like the Welfare FA still exists but are only tiny compared to what they used to be.

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2 hours ago, virginton said:

Who knew that fucking Bute was somehow treated as a standalone county until 1975 btw; all the more reason to give Rothesay Brandane a permanent spot in the Scottish Cup and the new West of Scotland Premier League.

I know you like to bring this up a lot because you, like me, would love to see island teams in the Scottish Cup, so I thought it was worth mentioning that Bute Rangers did compete in the Scottish Cup in the late 19th century.

At the time the early rounds were regionalised, so they played in the Renfrewshire or Renfrewshire and Ayrshire section.

I don't think any other island team has ever taken part.

1883/84

R1: Glenpatrick (Johnstone) DQ v w/o Bute Rangers
R2: Thornliebank 14-0 Bute Rangers (both sides agreed to stop after 75 minutes)

1889/90

R1: Bute Rangers 1-2 Kilbarchan


1890/91

R1: Neilston 7-3 Bute Rangers

 

1891/92

R1: Bute Rangers 3-4 Monkcastle (Kilwinning)


1892/93

PR1: Bute Rangers w/o v scratched Lugar Boswell
PR2: Bute Rangers 4-4 Neilston
PR2r: Neilston w/o v scratched Bute Rangers

1893/94

PR1: Bute Rangers 3-4 Neilston

1894/95

PR1: Galston w/o v scratched Bute Rangers

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This is my poor attempt at a map of Luncarty showing the boundary. As can be seen, just over half the village is south of the line, so are most of the facilities they have. The ground is just north of it.

image.png.c802b613c13f6a98bc824f09543cdf27.png

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Surely to end all the confusion of if the wos didnt want fauldhouse or any other west Lothian teams it would state the areas eligible to apply make things crystal clear

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7 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

That’s not a rivalry - as you claimed they’d miss out on - but rather a distinctly one-sided trading relationship given that Greenock are Central region permadiddies. There’s nothing to stop them still being a feeder club to larger teams while staying in the rump juniors.

 

 

 

No that’s not the purpose: the objective is to provide a clear path for any club that wants to progress up the pyramid to do so; whether they all play under the same umbrella body is irrelevant. You’d be as well claiming that amateur leagues should be disbanded in the event of Oban or Glasgow Uni entering the new league.

 

There’s a place for a rump junior league as well as amateur divisions in west-central Scotland for clubs that don’t want to participate in the pyramid food chain. So long as their league’s blazers don’t have the power to stop clubs from moving to the pyramid setup at a later date then that’s a suitable outcome for everyone.

At least 5 of the current Largs side are from the Greenock area. There is no 'place' for a rump Junior league cut off from the rest of the semi pro clubs. If anything, there should be a coming together of the SAFA the lower reaches of the SJFA. No idea what you're on about re: Oban and Glasgow Uni. I think, like most other parts of the world, you should be able to go from public park to top flight, provided standards are met along the way. Greenock is one of those odd parts of the country that has Senior, Junior, Amateur and Welfare football within it. Give me a wand and I'd wave all that away under one umbrella, like the FA down south. As noted a few posts back, give more powers to county FAs to run the really small scale stuff. The SJFA doesn't fit.

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Surely to end all the confusion of if the wos didnt want fauldhouse or any other west Lothian teams it would state the areas eligible to apply make things crystal clear
They appear to have worded their release in a very particular manner about geographical integrity. We will see in a few weeks when applications are made and accepted/rejected.

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This is my poor attempt at a map of Luncarty showing the boundary. As can be seen, just over half the village is south of the line, so are most of the facilities they have. The ground is just north of it.
image.png.c802b613c13f6a98bc824f09543cdf27.png


Let’s hope the residents of the care home don’t decide to set up a team or we really will be in trouble

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The conundrum if the ERJFA is about to implode:


Geographical integrity v flexible common sense

Tweedmouth
are in England. Geographically they should not be in the EOSFL but it is common sense that we include them. We all agree.

Tayport are in northern Fife. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they should be allowed to play in a newly created Tayside League should they wish given their juxta-position with Dundee.

Newburgh are in northern Fife. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but a case can be made that they should be allowed to play in a newly created Tayside League should they wish given their proximity to Dundee.

Scone are in Perth and Kinross. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL. Common sense says they should follow the route provided by Kinnoull and Jeanfield if they wish but they could opt for a Tayside League.

Luncarty are in Perth and Kinross. Geographically the ground is a whisker outside the EOSFL while much of the village itself is inside the EOSFL. Common sense says they should follow the route provided by Kinnoull and Jeanfield if they wish but they could opt for a Tayside League.

Harthill ground is in West Lothian but the village is in North Lanarkshire. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they should be able to choose whether to follow the EOSFL or WOSFL route.

Fauldhouse are in West Lothian. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they are so near North Lanarkshire they should be able to choose whether to follow the EOSFL or WOSFL route (providing flexibility as in the EOSFL /Tayside options above).


Other issues:

Kello moved to SOSFL?

Caledonian Braves Reserves exit the SOSFL?
Bonnyton Thistle exit the SOSFL?

- if Geographical integrity v flexible common sense is won by the former.

Edited by Pyramidic

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9 minutes ago, the sniper said:

Surely to end all the confusion of if the wos didnt want fauldhouse or any other west Lothian teams it would state the areas eligible to apply make things crystal clear

They can't really do this yet because they haven't established the exact boundaries with the EoS and SoS. Kello are a particular sticking point in this respect.

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4 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

 


Let’s hope the residents of the care home don’t decide to set up a team or we really will be in trouble emoji6.png

 

The line isn't doing any favours for my beloved Navarac Caravans FC

Edited by RossBFaeDundee

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4 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

 


Let’s hope the residents of the care home don’t decide to set up a team or we really will be in trouble emoji6.png

 

The caravan social club has some excellent players. 

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They can't really do this yet because they haven't established the exact boundaries with the EoS and SoS. Kello are a particular sticking point in this respect.
So people are getting knickers in a twist over boundaries that haven't been drawn :)

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The conundrum if the ERJFA is about to implode:

Geographical integrity v flexible common sense

Tweedmouth
are in England. Geographically they should not be in the EOSFL but it is common sense that we include them. We all agree.

Tayport are in northern Fife. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they should be allowed to play in a newly created Tayside League should they wish given their juxta-position with Dundee.

Newburgh are in northern Fife. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but a case can be made that they should be allowed to play in a newly created Tayside League should they wish given their proximity to Dundee.

Scone are in Perth and Kinross. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL. Common sense says they should follow the route provided by Kinnoull and Jeanfield if they wish but they could opt for a Tayside League.

Luncarty are in Perth and Kinross. Geographically the ground is a whisker outside the EOSFL while much of the village itself is inside the EOSFL. Common sense says they should follow the route provided by Kinnoull and Jeanfield if they wish but they could opt for a Tayside League.

Harthill ground is in West Lothian but the village is in North Lanarkshire. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they should be able to choose whether to follow the EOSFL or WOSFL route.

Fauldhouse are in West Lothian. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they are so near North Lanarkshire they should be able to choose whether to follow the EOSFL or WOSFL route (providing flexibility as in the EOSFL /Tayside options above).

Other issues:
Kello moved to SOSFL?
Caledonian Braves Reserves exit the SOSFL?
Bonnyton Thistle exit the SOSFL?
- if Geographical integrity v flexible common sense is won by the former.
Not for me.

You are complicating, again, a simple process.

Ersjfa stay eos.

Wrsjfa go wosfl.

North of tay boundary go HL.

South go LL.

Really, really simple and straight forward. No ambiguity.

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