Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

Folk are asking what cups they'll be involved in if they leave the Juniors. Given that there is bound to be some national set up either this season or next it wouldn't take a genius to come up with a national competition - similar to the Junior Cup - but involving the HL, LL, EoS, SoS and WoSC teams? Regionalise the first round (or maybe two) so it doesn't get too cost prohibitive, and seed teams the following season if they are in the BETFRED Cup or the like.
Despite the travel involved, I do love Talbot's trips up north as it usually means another new ground to visit etc. A national competition could be the glue that bonds everything together?

It already exists minus the HL, it's called the South Challenge Cup.

It could morph into a national comp I suppose but the HL aren't overly keen apparently.

Maybe with a makeover and a good sponsor it may encourage them in.

[Marten]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

 

It already exists minus the HL, it's called the South Challenge Cup.

It could morph into a national comp I suppose but the HL aren't overly keen apparently.

Maybe with a makeover and a good sponsor it may encourage them in.

 

I'd say merge the South Challenge Cup with the Junior Cup (so it includes the north region) and invite HL / NCL clubs. Whether or not they accept the invitation is a second, but if the cup is successful, they might do at a later point.

[cmontheloknow]

Highland's challenge is their own congested programme:

32 / 34 league games

All enter into WH Scottish Cup

All enter into Highland League Cup (KO with max 4 games)

Western clubs into North of Scotland Cup (KO)

Eastern clubs into both Aberdeenshire Cup & Shield (KO)

A number of these cups are midweekers though.

[Burnie_man]

I'd say merge the South Challenge Cup with the Junior Cup (so it includes the north region) and invite HL / NCL clubs. Whether or not they accept the invitation is a second, but if the cup is successful, they might do at a later point.

The Junior Cup should remain for those clubs left in the Junior game.

[Marshmallo]

14 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

 

It already exists minus the HL, it's called the South Challenge Cup.

It could morph into a national comp I suppose but the HL aren't overly keen apparently.

Maybe with a makeover and a good sponsor it may encourage them in.

 

If it doesn't include the HL then a nationwide tournament does not "already exist".

The Junior Cup is a brilliant tournament and if there was a way to retain it in a new structure that would be brilliant.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

If it doesn't include the HL then a nationwide tournament does not "already exist".

 

No shit Sherlock.

[theesel1994]

One thing I do notice with cups - they don't have replays. Do they have any sort of "guarantee" as they have in the Junior Cup? Is the gate money even shared for cup games?

Edited February 15, 2020 by theesel1994

[Burnie_man]

Just now, theesel1994 said:

One thing I do notice with cups - they don't have replays. Do they have any sort of "guarantee" as they have in the Juniors? Is the gate money even shared for cup games?

No such thing as a guarantee.  In the South Challenge Cup, you get paid travel expenses based on distance between clubs, starting I think at 50 miles (won't cover all costs but it helps offset them), home club keeps the gate money (no percentage paid to associations).

[AlanCamelonfan]

7 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

If it doesn't include the HL then a nationwide tournament does not "already exist".

The Junior Cup is a brilliant tournament and if there was a way to retain it in a new structure that would be brilliant.

That is just fantasy. JUnior cup will remain in the Juniors for those left.  I don't get this it has to be a national tournement their was barely a north team made it past the last 32 in the Junior cup.

South Challenge cup will be adequate enough

[theesel1994]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

No such thing as a guarantee.  In the South Challenge Cup, you get paid travel expenses based on distance between clubs, starting I think at 50 miles (won't cover all costs but it helps offset them), home club keeps the gate money (no percentage paid to associations).

The Juniors have done away with this as well. Or at least up until the semi finals of the Scottish.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Some of us recall the advantages that Kefc put forward for joining the mass exodus of Eastern Junior clubs to join the EoSFL.  I do not think that there is a single club that has regretted the move. As the LL/EosFL will be setting up the WoSFL I suggest that a lot of the points made by Kefc are still relevant - see below.

 

Pyramidic -  In your attached QUOTE about the benefits of Entry into the EoSL, the opening "benefit" could possibly be misread or wrongly interpreted. For the avoidance of any doubt :

YES, you have to join a (senior) pyramid league, to be able to apply for an SFA licence 

NO  you don't need to have a licence to apply to/join  the EoSL, or the SoSL,, or in the proposed WoSL 

YES you do need to obtain an SFA licence, to be promoted from  the EoSL/SoSL/WoSL (Tier 6), into the Lowland League, which is at Tier 5  of the pyramid (as is the Highland League)

NO there isn't a "mandatory" requirement  at any time, to  apply for, or obtain a licence, after joining the EoSL/SoSL/WoSL, at any level,  An SFA licence requirement applies to Lowland, Highland, and SPFL clubs only

YES having an SFA licence, guarantees that ALL clubs which are licensed, will automatically be entered into the Scottish Cup, each season.

YES the other benefits listed in your QUOTE, also apply.

 

The above benefits are known and understood by the majority (if not all) of the posters on this Forum. However, I have restated the above, as it appears that there is still confusion amoungst Junior clubs/fans.

 

[theesel1994]

Just now, AlanCamelonfan said:

That is just fantasy. JUnior cup will remain in the Juniors for those left.  I don't get this it has to be a national tournement their was barely a north team made it past the last 32 in the Junior cup.

South Challenge cup will be adequate enough

Is it treated as a big thing though? Even the early rounds of the Scottish are treated as a big game or there is a different excitement about them. The League must be the main thing outside the Juniors.

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, theesel1994 said:

Is it treated as a big thing though? Even the early rounds of the Scottish are treated as a big game or there is a different excitement about them. The League must be the main thing outside the Juniors.

And is it a good thing the Cup dominates so much in the Juniors? Extra bodies that only roll up once a year in a split gate? Often drunken wee neds too. I enjoy a cup run but I don't see the SJC as some sort of holy grail. And for the majority it's another thing to get out the way while focusing on either promotion or relegation.

[Burnie_man]

Is it treated as a big thing though? Even the early rounds of the Scottish are treated as a big game or there is a different excitement about them. The League must be the main thing outside the Juniors.

The Junior Cup has 130+ years of history and is a well known comp. A better comparison is the WoS Junior Cup or the East equivalent. As Mallo points out, the SCC is not a national comp.....

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

That is just fantasy. JUnior cup will remain in the Juniors for those left.  I don't get this it has to be a national tournement their was barely a north team made it past the last 32 in the Junior cup.

South Challenge cup will be adequate enough

Except in this new world order. Most Tayside clubs are considered North now.

[Marshmallo]

The "mon the joonyurs!" crowd get panned on here but these EoS diehards are just as blinkered. 

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, cmontheloknow said:

Often drunken wee neds too. 

I resemble this accusation. My 6 quid is as good as anyone else's.

[Arthurlie1981]

And is it a good thing the Cup dominates so much in the Juniors? Extra bodies that only roll up once a year in a split gate? Often drunken wee neds too. I enjoy a cup run but I don't see the SJC as some sort of holy grail. And for the majority it's another thing to get out the way while focusing on either promotion or relegation.

Nothing like casting aspersions there! As someone who would be drunk at Scottish ties I had some great away days and some great moments in the Scottish. Anything that should bring in extra punters should be welcomed sober or not.

I also disagree with clubs getting it out of the way (maybe it was at Pollok which maybe says more about them as a club) but most other clubs didn’t view it this way.

[theesel1994]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

9 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

Is it treated as a big thing though? Even the early rounds of the Scottish are treated as a big game or there is a different excitement about them. The League must be the main thing outside the Juniors.

The Junior Cup has 130+ years of history and is a well known comp. A better comparison is the WoS Junior Cup or the East equivalent. As Mallo points out, the SCC is not a national comp.....

There is absolutely no excitement about the WoS Cup. In fact, it would be a fool that places bets on WoS Cup games as managers will give their fringe players a chance in these games and any result can happen.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

Is it treated as a big thing though? Even the early rounds of the Scottish are treated as a big game or there is a different excitement about them. The League must be the main thing outside the Juniors.

Its growing in stature is how I would put it. Now that there is a competitive edge amongst LL v EoS it has added some extra spice to it. That LL v EoS v WoS dynamic will only increase the interest.