Junior football, what is the future?

[8MileBU]

Kudos to whomever wrote that Maryhill statement, a real class act.
 
Perhaps with someone like that in charge instead of the bullying blazers the SJFA would be in a much better position.

Maybe wee Mark Dallas fae the wrestling? [emoji1]

[Cameron Wilson]

3 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Everybody's releasing club statements and we were beginning to feel a bit left out...

"The division between junior and senior football in Scotland has always been an artificial one which is rooted far back in history. Maryhill FC – it’s worth noting we’ve NEVER actually been called Maryhill Juniors – were formed in 1884 and spent our first decade or so as a senior eam.

There were no leagues back then, and as protectionism set in with the bigger sides more and more only wanting to play each other leaving the smaller teams out in the cold, the two groups coalesced into senior and junior grades. As this process happened, those in charge of Maryhill FC at the time had a decision to make, and as one of the smaller Glasgow clubs opted to join the ranks of the juniors.

And so it remained through thick and thin for more than a century with the glass ceiling firmly in effect between the league and non-league systems operating side by side with virtually no congruence between the two. Finally several years ago the pyramid system was introduced which allowed for non-league teams to progress into the Scottish league structure proper and conversely for league teams to go the other way.

For the last few seasons the pre-existing East of Scotland League has been absorbing a large proportion of the East Region junior teams, but for junior teams in the West Region there was no pre-existing league structure to join.

Until now that is, as it is now expected that a senior West of Scotland League at Tier 6 of the Scottish League system will be in place for next season. The talks to incorporate the West Region en bloc into the pyramid now appear to have reached an impasse, and after several years of assurances that a solution was imminent, we as a club share the sense of frustration felt by many others at the lack of progress thus far.

We are proud members of the SJFA – we’ve walked too many miles down the road along with them for it to be otherwise – but for the first time in a long time there is a fork in the road ahead of us.

It would be remiss of those currently in charge of Maryhill FC if we failed to have a look to see what lies down the alternative path which may soon open up and to investigate all available opportunities for our club.

We are merely the current torchbearers for the flame the late Victorians who formed the club ignited, but it appears that in common with them we may soon have a decision to make.

As always, it will be the one that we feel is in the best interests of the future of Maryhill FC."

Truly beautiful

[Shannon]

Seriously? It’s 0-6, 0-6, 0-5 and love-40 on the SJFA serve (think Buster Motram for those old enough to remember) with Novak Djokovic (the LL/EoSFL) waiting to return. I suspect there’s only one winner.

What cup competitions would the new West of Scotland teams be involved in? A lot of clubs including mine at Irvine Meadow have a sizeable amount of our support wanting to stay Junior as don't know or understand the latest developments.

 

Can anyone explain all the benefits and any negatives so Junior teams can fully explain to guys who are not on Social Media for future EGMs and meetings...? In case anything folk have missed and for a run down of why teams like mine at Irvine Meadow need to join the pyramid now and not later.

 

 

[Black & Red Socks]

Supported National Front, fan of Enoch Powell and expelled from UKIP for trying to broker a pact with the BNP. 

Goodness guys, I instanced Buster Motram for his tennis playing abilities (which, to be fair, weren’t really that bad), not his political leanings. How far off topic are we going to drag this to prove anyone and everyone can do a google search?

[GNU_Linux]

What cup competitions would the new West of Scotland teams be involved in? A lot of clubs including mine at Irvine Meadow have a sizeable amount of our support wanting to stay Junior as don't know or understand the latest developments.  
Can anyone explain all the benefits and any negatives so Junior teams can fully explain to guys who are not on Social Media for future EGMs and meetings...? In case anything folk have missed and for a run down of why teams like mine at Irvine Meadow need to join the pyramid now and not later.
 
 

South Challenge Cup which is all senior teams (plus Glasgow Uni) sans the Highland League teams. Sucessor of sorts to the old South Qualifying Cup that was scrapped when the SFA reformed the SFA Cup.

Nothing is yet confirmed for other cups but there'd be a league cup at the very least. Depending on what happens at SFA AGM re: Scottish Cup reform there could be an equiviliant of the Alex Jack Cup (EOS) & Alba Cup (SOS) which are for teams not taking part in the Scottish Cup that season. The winner of each then plays each other with winner securing a Scottish Cup berth for the next season.

The EOS are involved in setting the new league up so looking at what cups they have/operate is a good reference of what the league could have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_Scotland_Football_League?wprov=sfla1

[theesel1994]

9 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

Goodness guys, I instanced Buster Motram for his tennis playing abilities (which, to be fair, weren’t really that bad), not his political leanings. How far off topic are we going to drag this to prove anyone and everyone can do a google search?

The reason I brought up about him being a Nazi as I remember at the time I kept on getting him mixed up with some other tennis player as being in the National Front which for the other person is probably not a good thing.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just hope theres no fucking sectional cup.

[theesel1994]

22 minutes ago, Shannon said:

What cup competitions would the new West of Scotland teams be involved in? A lot of clubs including mine at Irvine Meadow have a sizeable amount of our support wanting to stay Junior as don't know or understand the latest developments.

 

Can anyone explain all the benefits and any negatives so Junior teams can fully explain to guys who are not on Social Media for future EGMs and meetings...? In case anything folk have missed and for a run down of why teams like mine at Irvine Meadow need to join the pyramid now and not later.

If you're going to join at all it would probably best be at the start. If there are enough names there will likely be two Conference Leagues in the first season and splitting into a Premier and First Division for the second. If you come in at that second season you'll be in the lower Division with probably lower gates. 

[theesel1994]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Just hope theres no fucking sectional cup.

I wonder if the Evening Times could be persuaded to sponsor an end of season Cup Winners Cup?

Edited February 15, 2020 by theesel1994

[San Starko Rover]

So TJ is telling everyone he’s not changing his mandate of all in at tier 6 but he can somehow get it through even though the LL and EOSFL will veto ERJFA at tier 6. Either he doesn’t understand the basic rules of the pyramid and the ability to veto the other leagues have or he’s deliberately lying to his members in the hope they’ll stay by continually telling them he can achieve the impossible. Not sure which is worse lying to the clubs or not understanding after all these years.

[Black Pennel]

5 hours ago, Black & Red Socks said:

Seriously? It’s 0-6, 0-6, 0-5 and love-40 on the SJFA serve (think Buster Motram for those old enough to remember) with Novak Djokovic (the LL/EoSFL) waiting to return. I suspect there’s only one winner.

Erm,...perhaps not the best analogy to use there, chief...given what Goudie was banned for saying out loud...

[Ross.]

7 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

I wonder if the Evening Times could be persuaded to sponsor an end of season Cup Winners Cup?

[passbackdave]

So TJ is telling everyone he’s not changing his mandate of all in at tier 6 but he can somehow get it through even though the LL and EOSFL will veto ERJFA at tier 6. Either he doesn’t understand the basic rules of the pyramid and the ability to veto the other leagues have or he’s deliberately lying to his members in the hope they’ll stay by continually telling them he can achieve the impossible. Not sure which is worse lying to the clubs or not understanding after all these years.

The man doesnt know how 2 tell the truth. Hes holding so many clubs back. Sooner were gone the better

Mon the papers

[Marshmallo]

12 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

Everybody's releasing club statements and we were beginning to feel a bit left out...

"The division between junior and senior football in Scotland has always been an artificial one which is rooted far back in history. Maryhill FC – it’s worth noting we’ve NEVER actually been called Maryhill Juniors – were formed in 1884 and spent our first decade or so as a senior eam.

There were no leagues back then, and as protectionism set in with the bigger sides more and more only wanting to play each other leaving the smaller teams out in the cold, the two groups coalesced into senior and junior grades. As this process happened, those in charge of Maryhill FC at the time had a decision to make, and as one of the smaller Glasgow clubs opted to join the ranks of the juniors.

And so it remained through thick and thin for more than a century with the glass ceiling firmly in effect between the league and non-league systems operating side by side with virtually no congruence between the two. Finally several years ago the pyramid system was introduced which allowed for non-league teams to progress into the Scottish league structure proper and conversely for league teams to go the other way.

For the last few seasons the pre-existing East of Scotland League has been absorbing a large proportion of the East Region junior teams, but for junior teams in the West Region there was no pre-existing league structure to join.

Until now that is, as it is now expected that a senior West of Scotland League at Tier 6 of the Scottish League system will be in place for next season. The talks to incorporate the West Region en bloc into the pyramid now appear to have reached an impasse, and after several years of assurances that a solution was imminent, we as a club share the sense of frustration felt by many others at the lack of progress thus far.

We are proud members of the SJFA – we’ve walked too many miles down the road along with them for it to be otherwise – but for the first time in a long time there is a fork in the road ahead of us.

It would be remiss of those currently in charge of Maryhill FC if we failed to have a look to see what lies down the alternative path which may soon open up and to investigate all available opportunities for our club.

We are merely the current torchbearers for the flame the late Victorians who formed the club ignited, but it appears that in common with them we may soon have a decision to make.

As always, it will be the one that we feel is in the best interests of the future of Maryhill FC."

Is someone chopping onions in here?

I love football 

[FairWeatherFan]

9 hours ago, Shannon said:

What cup competitions would the new West of Scotland teams be involved in? A lot of clubs including mine at Irvine Meadow have a sizeable amount of our support wanting to stay Junior as don't know or understand the latest developments.

Can anyone explain all the benefits and any negatives so Junior teams can fully explain to guys who are not on Social Media for future EGMs and meetings...? In case anything folk have missed and for a run down of why teams like mine at Irvine Meadow need to join the pyramid now and not later.

Benefits: Being involved from the start gives your club a voice in shaping what it will look like. Access to SFA Licencing. Comes with Scottish Cup entry, a dividend and access to further grants. Access to the LL u20s League if you have a youth set up or look to start one. Access to the pyramid system.

Negatives: Loss of the Junior Cup.

X Factor: Clubs are leaving for a WoSFL and its only going to get stronger. The status quo for the Juniors doesn't exist. You ask what cups will a WoSFL play in, the same can be said about what cups the Juniors will play in. What division will you be in? What will the Sectional League Cup look like? Will the Champions Cup even exist?

I'm sure there are others.

As for what cups a WoSFL would be invovled in? The SFA South Region Challenge Cup is the only existing competition you'd be guaranteed to be in. That's a cup amongst all the Lowland League, EoSFL, SoSFL teams and Glasgow University. I'm sure the WoSFL will have a League Cup or West of Scotland Cup formed, maybe both.

Long term if licenced there's the Scottish Cup. The EoSFL and SoSFL also have cups for their non-licenced clubs: the Alba Cup and Alex Jack Cup. These are played on the same days as the Scottish Cup so that they are not idle.

[Marten]

Once the clubs who applied meet, all structures will surely be decided. Fewer league games due to numbers could for example result in more cup games and group stages in at least one of them to ensure there are enough games for all clubs. But I guess most will be left to the clubs to decide what they want.

[Dev]

44 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Benefits: Being involved from the start gives your club a voice in shaping what it will look like. Access to SFA Licencing. Comes with Scottish Cup entry, a dividend and access to further grants. Access to the LL u20s League if you have a youth set up or look to start one. Access to the pyramid system.

Negatives: Loss of the Junior Cup.

X Factor: Clubs are leaving for a WoSFL and its only going to get stronger. The status quo for the Juniors doesn't exist. You ask what cups will a WoSFL play in, the same can be said about what cups the Juniors will play in. What division will you be in? What will the Sectional League Cup look like? Will the Champions Cup even exist?

I'm sure there are others.

As for what cups a WoSFL would be invovled in? The SFA South Region Challenge Cup is the only existing competition you'd be guaranteed to be in. That's a cup amongst all the Lowland League, EoSFL, SoSFL teams and Glasgow University. I'm sure the WoSFL will have a League Cup or West of Scotland Cup formed, maybe both.

Long term if licenced there's the Scottish Cup. The EoSFL and SoSFL also have cups for their non-licenced clubs: the Alba Cup and Alex Jack Cup. These are played on the same days as the Scottish Cup so that they are not idle.

........ and the winners of the Alba Cup and the Alex Jack Cup play off with the winners of that receiving a place in the Scottish Cup - even though they are unlicenced. Presumably the WoS would have its' equivalent Cup competition with the winners joining this play off for a Scottish Cup place? However, will this place still be there in future?

How much was the minimum income from SFA membership and from playing in the earliest round of the Scottish Cup worth in total for 2018/19 for licenced clubs? Any idea what it is/maybe for 2019/20?

Edited February 15, 2020 by Dev
update

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, Marten said:

Once the clubs who applied meet, all structures will surely be decided. Fewer league games due to numbers could for example result in more cup games and group stages in at least one of them to ensure there are enough games for all clubs. But I guess most will be left to the clubs to decide what they want.

The EoS have shown with their Conferences this season that there are solutions  eg. 24 clubs apply to WoS, 2 x 12 Conferences with home and away plus an inter Conference round = 33 games, and you play all 23 other clubs so nobody loses out.

[Marten]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

The EoS have shown with their Conferences this season that there are solutions  eg. 24 clubs apply to WoS, 2 x 12 Conferences with home and away plus an inter Conference round = 33 games, and you play all 23 other clubs so nobody loses out.

True, but a lot depends on numbers and whether or not that's practical, so these things can only really be discussed once it's known how many clubs applied and got accepted.

[Dev]

17 minutes ago, Marten said:

Once the clubs who applied meet, all structures will surely be decided. Fewer league games due to numbers could for example result in more cup games and group stages in at least one of them to ensure there are enough games for all clubs. But I guess most will be left to the clubs to decide what they want.

Who knows but could there be inter-conference games instead of group stages for cup competitions? It would mean that each clubs plays the others and it would, if needed, provide additional meaningful games.