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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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28 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Interested to understand what the probability is of a current (licenced) SoS club actually wanting promotion to the LL, and being able to finance a competitive side?

Threave (despite their earlier dismal attempt) appear to want back in., or so they're saying in the local squeak. I'm well aware there are very few clubs in the league who are up to getting promoted, but there are one or two with decent grounds and a reasonable fanbase.

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1 minute ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Threave (despite their earlier dismal attempt) appear to want back in., or so they're saying in the local squeak. I'm well aware there are very few clubs in the league who are up to getting promoted, but there are one or two with decent grounds and a reasonable fanbase.

Thanks.  

Are they happy with their lot, or do you think instead of LL they would maybe be happier hooking into a future WoS League at either tier 7 or 8?  Maybe replicate Girvan in moving up and down the lower west levels?

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11 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

image.thumb.png.fb32577b99834ab8c13e4e198d886dfe.png

Worked This up. It only let me do counties so I would say that P+K would definitely straddle as border territory. The same can be said of West Lothian possibly.

Don't see why you've put Nairnshire in the NCL area when Nairn St Ninian are a NRSJFA Super League team??

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7 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

.

My personal opinion is let the WOS settle first before the SOS is "relegated" to Tier 7. It would be unfair to relegate them any further.

Why would that be unfair?

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2 minutes ago, archieb said:

Don't see why you've put Nairnshire in the NCL area when Nairn St Ninian are a NRSJFA Super League team??

The reason I did that was I think they'd ought to move in order to keep a Balance of numbers. Also because Nairn County are members of the North Caley FA.

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9 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

The problem with waiting is it gets messier once the WOS leagues are stable. It's much easier to move SOS teams into tier 6 WOS conferences than to try and slot them into an already full tier 6 league in 2 years' time.

Exactly.

So leave them where they are for the time being, at Tier 6.

Once the WoS is up and running at Tier 6, with , say a WoS 1st division at Tier 7, then the SoS can simply be demoted one Tier and feed into the WoS Premier alongside WoS 1st Division.

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4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Thanks.  

Are they happy with their lot, or do you think instead of LL they would maybe be happier hooking into a future WoS League at either tier 7 or 8?  Maybe replicate Girvan in moving up and down the lower west levels?

Personal opinion, because of travelling distances, after the WoS is set up at Tier 6, and then presumably will add extra tiers as more clubs apply, ie Tier 7, 8 etc, then the SoS could drop down to Tier 7 with the winners getting promoted into Tier 6 WoS if they meet the criteria etc.

I think that is a reasonable level for them, same as the original EoS clubs, who are all Tier 7 now.

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9 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Exactly.

So leave them where they are for the time being, at Tier 6.

Once the WoS is up and running at Tier 6, with , say a WoS 1st division at Tier 7, then the SoS can simply be demoted one Tier and feed into the WoS Premier alongside WoS 1st Division.

That solution isn't simple at all. What about the teams that are happy to play regionwide and do not want to be demoted?

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3 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

Personal opinion, because of travelling distances, after the WoS is set up at Tier 6, and then presumably will add extra tiers as more clubs apply, ie Tier 7, 8 etc, then the SoS could drop down to Tier 7 with the winners getting promoted into Tier 6 WoS if they meet the criteria etc.

I think that is a reasonable level for them, same as the original EoS clubs, who are all Tier 7 now.

Thanks.  I think it may be diffcult to plug-in a stand alone league anywhere other than at tier 8 regional (ie WoS Premier at tier 6, WoS First at tier 7, and then widening out into Tier 8 Glasgow, Ayrshire, and SoS as I think Stanley suggested earlier.  That is the kind of set-up the EoS will I think move to if more East Juniors join, and probably tier 8 would be where (no disrepect) the smaller original EoS clubs will end up like Hawick, Peebles, Eyemouth, Ormiston etc.

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6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I dont understand everyone’s rush to demote the sosl etc, why should it even be considered right now?

It shouldn't, they have every right to stand their ground for the time being. However I think over time they would look to compete at a more realistic level, as has been highlighted there's maybe only 1 club who fancy a crack at LL.

Edited by Burnie_man

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31 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

image.thumb.png.fb32577b99834ab8c13e4e198d886dfe.png

Worked This up. It only let me do counties so I would say that P+K would definitely straddle as border territory. The same can be said of West Lothian possibly.

10 out of 10 for "A A".

Send your map to the SFA asap. Nice and simple for everyone to understand.  It should speed up the process.

from Uncle Bob

.  

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Personal opinion, because of travelling distances, after the WoS is set up at Tier 6, and then presumably will add extra tiers as more clubs apply, ie Tier 7, 8 etc, then the SoS could drop down to Tier 7 with the winners getting promoted into Tier 6 WoS if they meet the criteria etc.
I think that is a reasonable level for them, same as the original EoS clubs, who are all Tier 7 now.


Tier 7 will almost certainly cover the entire WOS area just as tier 7 in the East will cover the EOS area if the Dumfries and Galloway clubs want to stay at a higher level they need to represent an area larger than D&G. Under your proposal if all the WRJFA move over the champions of the SOS will be promoted into what is effectively the current West Region Premiership. How would the SOS champions fare? I’d think they’d be on the end of several embarrassing results. The best the SOS should be if it expands to bring in some of the South Ayrshire teams is tier 8 if they stay covering just D&G they’d be even lower. A Fife League wouldn’t expect to be tier 7.

Tier 6 WOS Prem
Tier 7 WOS First
Tier 8 WOS North and South
Tier 9 regional divisions

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25 minutes ago, stanley said:

I think a solution will take a bit of time and needs to try to respect the SoS at the same time as progressing the pyramid.  Longer term, a Dumfries & Galloway league (I know Bonnyton are in it as well but they are the exception) could not be at level 7.

If you look at the EoS as an example, if the south of the Tay juniors all joined then you'd end up with a structure along the lines of:

Tier 6-EoS Premier (16 teams)

Tier 7-EoS First (16 teams)

Tier 8-EoS Second North & South (up to 16 teams each)

Many of the former EoS clubs are in the Lowland League but if you look at what was left of the league after the LL formed, a small number would make it to tier 7.  As things stand, you'd probably get around 5 or 6 of the EoS clubs (post-LL) in the EoS First if it was to use the format above although that's before you add 22 east juniors into the mix with the chance of being promoted etc.

If all the west juniors were to eventually join the WoS then you could have something like this:

Tier 6-WoS Premier (16 teams)

Tier 7-WoS First (16 teams)

Tier 8-WoS Second (16 teams)

Tier 9-WoS Third Central & Ayshire/D&G (up to 16 teams each)

You could also make it three regional divisions at tier 8 but I think promoting three divisions into one doesn't tend to work well due to lack of promotion places and the west juniors already moved towards a region-wide model recently.

The main thing for me would be that you incorporate the South clubs into the structure (only 13 first teams left, similar to what was left of the old EoS) and they gradually find their place in the league.  I wouldn't just ditch the league to the bottom but I would allow teams to start higher up if they want to (or go lower down if they prefer that).  A league based in such a small regional area would have to be at the bottom of the pyramid longer-term by definition (i.e. national leagues at the top and regional as you go lower down).

 

As you say 'eventually'.

Wait and see how many West juniors apply for the WoS, then we'll see where we go.

At the moment, my point is that the SoS as it stands are the same quality roughly as the original EoS sides, who are now all  in Tier 7.

Also bear in mind travelling distances from D&G, there needs to be a regional league down here.

It was easy for the third Tier Ayrshire League to merge in with the Central teams a couple of years ago.

There's no M77 or railway at Newton Stewart or Creetown !

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The original EOSFL sides as a group are a lot stronger than the SOSFL. Years of cup results show this. Two or three former EOSFL sides are likely to be promoted back to tier six this season.

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26 minutes ago, archieb said:

Don't see why you've put Nairnshire in the NCL area when Nairn St Ninian are a NRSJFA Super League team??

Correct about Nairn St Ninian being a junior club.

However, HFL club NaIrn County's Development/Reserves enter some NCL cup competitions each season, and are Members of its FA, with no connection to the NRJFA/SJFA..

It is the only north 'anomaly' between the NRJFA and the NCL.

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I think it’s pretty mental that after years of people (rightly) harping on the SJFA for deriding the Lowland League as being of inferior quality and populated by teams like BSC and Caley Braves with double figures fanbases are now using the same excuse to shunt SoS down to Tier 7/8.

Also funny to see people deriding the remaining East Juniors for wanting to come in at Tier 6 by saying they should have joined when they had the chance and then suggesting St Cuthbert and the lads make space for the proper big teams like Talbot and either be assimilated or gentlemanly forfeit their Tier 6 status for the betterment of some OCD forum posters who don’t live in the area and think the league is shite, because they can’t be arsed to pay attention to it. 

it’s a historic regional league which embraced the pyramid when everyone else was wailing about gold toilets and Elgin away on a Tuesday. Seeing as half the league isn’t licensed and reserves, it’s highly unlikely that they are going to factor into LL promotion/relegation anyway so what is the necessity to rip them up apart from to stop some P&B poster from KIlbirnie having panic attacks because their precious pyramid isn’t exactly to his liking?

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22 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

That solution isn't simple at all. What about the teams that are happy to play regionwide and do not want to be demoted?

Fair point, but i think that may literally apply to about 2 current SoS sides, Threave and  St Cuthberts. I cant see any of the rest wanting to travel distances, or having the necessary resources to do so.

(Add  Newton Stewart as a possible third team)

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3 minutes ago, VillanoXIV said:

I think it’s pretty mental that after years of people (rightly) harping on the SJFA for deriding the Lowland League as being of inferior quality and populated by teams like BSC and Caley Braves with double figures fanbases are now using the same excuse to shunt SoS down to Tier 7/8.

Also funny to see people deriding the remaining East Juniors for wanting to come in at Tier 6 by saying they should have joined when they had the chance and then suggesting St Cuthbert and the lads make space for the proper big teams like Talbot and either be assimilated or gentlemanly forfeit their Tier 6 status for the betterment of some OCD forum posters who don’t live in the area and think the league is shite, because they can’t be arsed to pay attention to it. 

it’s a historic regional league which embraced the pyramid when everyone else was wailing about gold toilets and Elgin away on a Tuesday. Seeing as half the league isn’t licensed and reserves, it’s highly unlikely that they are going to factor into LL promotion/relegation anyway so what is the necessity to rip them up apart from to stop some P&B poster from KIlbirnie having panic attacks because their precious pyramid isn’t exactly to his liking?

Exactly.

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9 minutes ago, lowenan said:

The original EOSFL sides as a group are a lot stronger than the SOSFL. Years of cup results show this. Two or three former EOSFL sides are likely to be promoted back to tier six this season.

The top teams, eg Leith, LTHV, Tynecastle are. Not much difference between the rest of them and the SoS, as this years cup results show. 

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