Junior football, what is the future?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I understand that it is to be discussed and voted on at the AGM in June. Perhaps that is sensible as by that time we will know if we are in the pyramid or not. If it's not happening this summer, or if none of the clubs in the league would be eligible for promotion due to licensing issues, then there would be no need to change from the 30-game season for next season at least.

Are you sure its to be voted on? bankies rep saying it was categorically ruled out?

[glensmad]

Are you sure its to be voted on? bankies rep saying it was categorically ruled out?

I wasn't at the meeting, and have only heard bits of what happened, so perhaps your rep is correct. When the minutes are published we will find out. I would be pleased if it was categorically ruled out, as it is an abomination of an idea.

[hague]

Would that be the same bankies rep who on this forum for months assured us all that the juniors joining at tier 6 next season was a done deal ?

[GNU_Linux]

Reading over what was said at the EOS meeting if the discipline for current junior comps is transfered directly to the SFA as was stated by Petrie then what will the SJFA be doing sans organising the Junior Cup? (assuming there hasn't been a move towards an all in non-league cup)

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Can you set up another league in the west without first discussing it with the SFA? They would have to look at refereeing issues, discipline, there would also be the issue of governance invitations and to clubs to join (I know that these were your suggestions but find it kind of insulting the amount of clubs you ignored).

Don’t be insulted or offended by one person suggesting who they’d like to see in a league, I just picked clubs I particularly like, nothing against Arthurlie just the last time I was there I got the impression that they werent that interested in these things (given the ‘f**k off to the seniors’ stuff I heard from fans). I’d love a club like Arthurlie with all its potential and links to good local youth teams etc to be involved. Im also sure that the sfa would probably get behind it given the shit show that the sjfa have caused, pretty simple solution to having a true national pyramid and by adopting the rules/procedures of the eosl there’s not much significant setting up needed.

Having read what was said last night it would seem the west clubs have been getting told one thing with another being told to TJ. His job is to act in the best interest of clubs and for me, having read all this, he hasn’t done that. That means me eating some humble pie.

Perhaps he should resign and let someone competent take over.

If it was put to him that the west could join for next season that is a material change and should of lead to a consultation of the west clubs. This is the counter proposal that I have been waiting to be made. This should have been presented to the clubs with a free vote taking place. This would have allowed for clubs to decide their futures!

Completely agree and it seems his arrogance has cost clubs.

It’s beginning to seem like a WOS league is the only way forward and if i were still involved I would be wanting my club to lead from the front on this.

Agree and think that many other west clubs will feel the same. Adopt the eosl rules and procedures, put an open invite for clubs (with a youth system and a basic standard of facilities like hard standing, refreshment stall and supporter toilets). The LL was started in 6 weeks, that would be doable again, especially if starter now, league could kick off first week in August and play some midweek matches in better light to catch up for any delayed start. Throw in a league cup and negotiate with the eosl for entry into alex jack or another cup (which would be of a better standard than the sjfa scottish) and I think you have a pretty enticing product.

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[Che Dail]

On 29/01/2019 at 18:17, Che Dail said:

Pyramid entry was supposedly a 'done deal' but now it looks like the SFA are stepping back and letting others get on with it, which is fair enough. 

Is there anything definitive, in writing, anywhere, which confirms that progress has been made and that pyramid entry can be delivered by SJFA for next season?

It really doesn't need a majority of clubs to make a WoS league happen. 

It just requires another 9 to step up to the plate with Clydebank and get the thing done.

It looks like this is not going to get sorted by others, the clubs must do it for themselves.

The EoS assoc would no doubt extend their offer from last season and assist with rules / constitution and any questions that might crop up - it's all boiler-plate stuff substituting the word 'East' with 'West'. 

It needs 10 clubs with a common purpose and commitment and 4 competent people in the whole of the West of Scotland to take up the office bearer positions.

Copy the website using exactly the same format as EoS with a contact email address at the top and an application form to fill out.

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO IT.

Or we'll all be here in another years time, still fannying about and wondering what is going on behind the scenes.

 

According to the Vice President and the Chief Exec, the 'done deal' is not happening.

Neither is the WoS or tier 6 for the ERJFA clubs.

Seems like people have been strung along on the basis of misinformation for quite some time.

It is up to individual clubs to initiate change for themselves if they want (or need) it.

Would EoS accept late applications now?

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Reading over what was said at the EOS meeting if the discipline for current junior comps is transfered directly to the SFA as was stated by Petrie then what will the SJFA be doing sans organising the Junior Cup? (assuming there hasn't been a move towards an all in non-league cup)

Think the SFA are only covering Tier 6. So West Premiership and  East Super League.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Che Dail said:

According to the Vice President and the Chief Exec, the 'done deal' is not happening.

Neither is the WoS or tier 6 for the ERJFA clubs.

Seems like people have been strung along on the basis of misinformation for quite some time.

It is up to individual clubs to initiate change for themselves if they want (or need) it.

Would EoS accept late applications now?

They did last year and supposedly did in Kelty's case. Clubs have got to get in touch and discuss. Although there might be another joing EoS and East Region meeting. So maybe things could be discussed there.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They did last year and supposedly did in Kelty's case. Clubs have got to get in touch and discuss. Although there might be another joing EoS and East Region meeting. So maybe things could be discussed there.

The EoS had an EGM last night to accept/reject the new clubs.  The AGM is 6th June.  Would they entertain late applications like last year? Absolutely no idea but if you don't ask you don't get.

[Chis]

1 hour ago, glensmad said:

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

What happened at the West Region meeting, still going down the split route next season?

I understand that it is to be discussed and voted on at the AGM in June. Perhaps that is sensible as by that time we will know if we are in the pyramid or not. If it's not happening this summer, or if none of the clubs in the league would be eligible for promotion due to licensing issues, then there would be no need to change from the 30-game season for next season at least.

Irrespective of whether or not there is an alternative proposal to the current West leagues in accordance with our Constitution there would be no change for season 2019/20 and any change would only take effect from season 2020/21.

[cmontheloknow]

3 minutes ago, Chis said:

Irrespective of whether or not there is an alternative proposal to the current West leagues in accordance with our Constitution there would be no change for season 2019/20 and any change would only take effect from season 2020/21.

Apparently the change here is to fixtures rather than actual league structure... so can be voted on?

[wow-wee]

The way I take it from last night's West meeting the West juniors are in at tier 6 as from next season as no West club's are licensed then they can't play in any play offs for the lowland league. The 2 other problems were discipline and the West have agreed to change so that they are the same as everyone else . The only problem the West still have is finishing the league in time for the play offs but they won't need to worry about that next season as I said no West premier club's are licensed.

[Robert James]

29 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They did last year and supposedly did in Kelty's case. Clubs have got to get in touch and discuss. Although there might be another joing EoS and East Region meeting. So maybe things could be discussed there.

I haven't heard that there are anymore EoSL/ERJFA meetings proposed. The gap between the two leagues is apparently still  too wide. Has anyone else heard about any further joint meetings ?  And I can't see any West juniors 'doing a Kelty'.

Given the above posts,  which seem to give closure (for now ?) to significant changes to the pyramid for 2019/20, the main issue yet to be resolved is the club licence applications, and which new clubs will be joining/leaving the Lowland League for 2019/20 ?

Edited April 26, 2019 by Robert James
post sent in error before completed

[glensmad]

Irrespective of whether or not there is an alternative proposal to the current West leagues in accordance with our Constitution there would be no change for season 2019/20 and any change would only take effect from season 2020/21.

The change last summer was to form four leagues of 16 clubs. That is not proposed to be changed. How the fixtures are organised was not part of last year's proposal, so as I understand it they can change this summer if the clubs vote for it. Hopefully they won't, though, as it is an appalling proposal.

[wow-wee]

1 minute ago, glensmad said:

25 minutes ago, Chis said:

Irrespective of whether or not there is an alternative proposal to the current West leagues in accordance with our Constitution there would be no change for season 2019/20 and any change would only take effect from season 2020/21.

The change last summer was to form four leagues of 16 clubs. That is not proposed to be changed. How the fixtures are organised was not part of last year's proposal, so as I understand it they can change this summer if the clubs vote for it. Hopefully they won't, though, as it is an appalling proposal.

The proposal got the big thumbs down last night from everyone it won't happen to many team against it and the management committee confirmed this as I said earlier we dont need to worry next season about the league finishing in time as  no club has licence to go up.

[gaz5]

The way I take it from last night's West meeting the West juniors are in at tier 6 as from next season as no West club's are licensed then they can't play in any play offs for the lowland league. The 2 other problems were discipline and the West have agreed to change so that they are the same as everyone else . The only problem the West still have is finishing the league in time for the play offs but they won't need to worry about that next season as I said no West premier club's are licensed.

"The juniors are not in Teir 6 next season"

That is a direct quote, repeated multiple times, by Rod Petrie.

When asked he confirmed that was West and East.

So someone had the wrong information. I would hope it's not the Chief Exec and Vice President, but honestly who the hell knows. [emoji846]

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, wow-wee said:

The proposal got the big thumbs down last night from everyone it won't happen to many team against it and the management committee confirmed this as I said earlier we dont need to worry next season about the league finishing in time as  no club has licence to go up.

The way it seems from the EoS neither Junior league has to worry about promotion next year. They'll be trialling the rule changes etc for a year to make sure things work, the EoS & SoS will have their usual champions play-off. If the EoS, SoS & LL try to change the play-off format for next year though, then the SFA might step in to include the Juniors.

[wow-wee]

1 minute ago, gaz5 said:

"The juniors are not in Teir 6 next season"

That is a direct quote, repeated multiple times, by Rod Petrie.

When asked he confirmed that was West and East.

So someone had the wrong information. I would hope it's not the Chief Exec and Vice President, but honestly who the hell knows.

Well the West management said last night that they were so like everything to do with this it's who do we believe.

[cmontheloknow]

4 minutes ago, wow-wee said:

Well the West management said last night that they were so like everything to do with this it's who do we believe.

And who keeps them informed...?

Edited April 26, 2019 by cmontheloknow

[gaz5]

Just to put a spanner in the works here, I'm not certain that the move to include the juniors into the pyramid from next season was put on the back burner. The key message was that if clubs wanted to be in the pyramid and remain part of a specific organisation, why shouldn't they?  That led to a whole repeat of every conversation that has gone before where the west and north were accepted, the south not applicable and the east a problem because of the overlap that would see Bathgate and Blackburn a short distance apart at tier 6 but never playing each other. 
As long as the starting point is the existence - or continued existence - of associations, the end point will always be a skewed outcome. 
I'm not sure how many people actually care about who is running a league - only that a league is run competently. 
I have no gripe with the folk running junior football and none with those running the eos league. But I definitely only need one of them to run the geographical area that should be the east. I say "should be" because as things stand, the division between Lowland and Highland appears not to exist. Clubs can apparently play where they like. This, I think, is what Larry was referring to and what was said pretty much confirmed that. Extending the logic of this, if any club in the east or west fancies an easier route to the play offs, they might want to consider moving to the South. Or they could just apply/choose to join the Highland League. I suspect we'd find out pretty quickly that geography does indeed matter though.  

I agree, the takeway for RP and IM, which they seemed to get, was that there should be one league/setup in each geography, North, West, South, East.

The examples used to illustrate why allowing the East Juniors to sit at the same level as an existing league in the East was thus:

We allow East and West Juniors into Teir 6 alongside the EoS and SoS. There are two structures in the East now because "if clubs want to join as part of their own structure, why shouldn't they?" (RP).

OK, so when the Central AFL want to join the pyramid, they join at Teir 6 alongside the West Region juniors, because we should allow structures to join under their own current setup when there's already a league in that Geography? Or any other league? Everyone comes in at Teir 6 whenever they want, even if there's already a structure in that area?

At that point, I think they realised what they were actually proposing was unworkable in the East.

They also confirmed there was no option to split the East and West juniors, it was either both or neither so the current proposal was neither at Teir 6.

The room unanimously rejected that idea, making it clear that they wanted the West juniors in for next year. The support for the West was confirmed on at least 3 occasions.

It seems the EoS support the introduction of the West more than the SJFA do, to be honest.