Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

23 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

If the ERJFA stay as they are then I think there could be a club or two chapping on the door of the EoS asking for a late application...

Will be interesting to see if the ERSJFA clubs even actually care about being tier 6 and whether they decide to stick with the split format and do their own thing regardless. Kind of looks like that's what already happened. That new format definitely looked at the time like an own goal in terms of their future pyramid status. If the north region can sit out in pyramid terms and stay as they are, maybe the east will as well? At that point if it's only the west needing in at tier 6, there's a strong case for doing it through a directly SFA administered WoSL.  So much for all the board directives patter of recent months, basically.

Edited April 26, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

13 minutes ago, Robert James said:

However, I have a separate question : did the EoS elect all/some/none of the 3 applicants into the league for 2019/20, which I thought was the original purpose of the EGM ? 

 

Decisions were made but I think they wanted time to inform clubs first.

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

There was lots of discussion but no answers. It appears that the SFA board did not have time to assess the applications last week and Rod Petrie could give no assurance as to when they would be assessed.

What were they doing?

I understand there might be resource issues, but this quite important. I would expect time management, priorities to be identified, delegation to have taken place with some parameters set and a report presented. I would expect any competent manager to achieve that.

[GNU_Linux]

This is the summary I received of last nights meeting;
Ian Maxwell began with a 10 minute summary of the SFA’s “achievements” over the last 12 months. What that had to do with matters in hand I have no idea but that was the only time you really heard him, he hardly spoke a word for the next 2 hours.
It was then the Rod Petrie show. He began with a Powerpoint presentation of how the Scottish Cup works which then moved onto Tier 6 and play-offs.  Needless to say this dominated proceedings for the next hour or so and trying to pin Petrie down is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. Some of the main points I took from it, although this may differ slightly depending on people’s understanding of what was being discussed as he was all over the place at times, was;
Juniors won’t be in tier 6 next season, they would run next season in line with the general SFA protocols for all competitions, ie discipline, registration etc and that this would be monitored by the SFA and assessed.  The SFA would ask the LL to come up with plans on how to run the play-offs involving 2, 3 or 4 teams, and the CEO would then make the decision if they could enter!
They have told the East Region that in order to take part, they need to have a single Superleague next season in line with all other leagues.
Teams can choose which league to play in if winning the play-off (Lochee was used as an example), he didn’t seem to understand the points being made about HL/LL demarcation line. The North isn’t happening, NRJFA don’t want to be part of the Pyramid.
The SFA will oversee discipline for tier 6 (no idea about the other tiers) and every club at that level need to abide by that in every competition.  The Junior Cup was used as an example and would that competition follow SFA rules, I don’t think we ever got a clear answer on it.
Delegates throughout made points, sometimes very forcefully, that what he was proposing was unworkable. Again, the main ones were;
Clubs did not have an issue with the West coming in fully next season and entering the play-offs, the issue was two parallel competing leagues in the East, which also includes clubs which cannot play in the LL. The suggestion was made to allow the West in whilst further discussion was needed in East, he seemed to imply that the SJFA didn’t like that suggestion.
If the ERJFA are splitting into Tayside and WL/Fife divisions then the solution and way forward is already there, Tayside form own league and WL/Fife join EoS.  The EoS are the existing tier 6 league in the area.
Geography has to be the main driver of how the Pyramid works, with one league system covering each area. Also questions over why an Association is being allowed to enter, there should only be one governing body involved in the pyramid, the SFA.
What happens if another league eg Central Amateur or Edinburgh & Lothians Amateur wanted access to the pyramid, would they be entitled to enter at tier 6 as well? SFA setting precedent if allowing ERJFA in at same level in same area as EoS.
Rules cannot be changed mid-season, LL play-off decisions need to be made now for next season, or at the end of next season for 2020-21.  It is absurd to say the CEO can make such a decision at a time of his choosing.  Clubs need to know.
There were lots of other points being made, and Petrie appeared a little rattled at the feedback he was getting.  Then we eventually moved onto Club Licencing.
Petrie said the SFA were busy with other matters, and that there is nothing in the club licencing process that says how quickly the board needed to make decisions, and seemed to indicate this would drag on to SFA AGM and that SPFL clubs are entitled to a say.
This was like rolling a grenade into the room, he was repeatedly asked (him and Maxwell) when clubs would be advised and he repeatedly said they couldn’t. One delegate pointed out that as the two most influential people in the game that was an embarrassing response, and that clubs must have a decision as they need to plan for next season, and it also effects the LL play-off situation which starts next week.  Still no commitment.
One delegate said to him that he had lied to them when he gave his spiel at the same meeting back in September about welcoming clubs on-board etc, he didn’t like this one bit!  A bit of an OTT accusation to make but it gives an indication that tempers were running high.  He was also questioned on the influence of SPFL clubs and again gave a typical non-answer.
More delegates had their say by impressing on him the amount of money that had been spent so far, and that some had AGM’s coming up where they had no answer to give members. They also could not tell players who they wanted to sign what league they would be playing in. 
The meeting sort of petered out to a conclusion, with Maxwell saying his first words since the start saying he understood clubs frustrations!
What happens next I have no idea.  Petrie and Maxwell were left under no illusion of how clubs felt, and some delegates done very well at getting their points across and explaining why clubs disagreed with what is being proposed for Pyramid and their frustration regarding licencing.

[Jason King]

21 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Good morning BM

The position of the ERJFA is now  tricky, considering its clubs  voted for regionalisation. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

However, I have a separate question : did the EoS elect all/some/none of the 3 applicants into the league for 2019/20, which I thought was the original purpose of the EGM ? 

You've already been given an answer on that question by a club in another thread so why ask it again?

[Jason King]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 So much for all the board directives patter of recent months, basically.

Clubs really need to now be proactive in getting a definitive answer from the West Region as to why the information that was available pre yesterday suddenly became something different yesterday.

There is a foul stench hanging over this, people are putting themselves ahead of progress.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Clubs really need to now be proactive in getting a definitive answer from the West Region as to why the information that was available pre yesterday suddenly became something different yesterday.

There is a foul stench hanging over this, people are putting themselves ahead of progress.

Apparently at the last PWG meeting, one of the delegates wanted to agree from the outset of the meeting that the West could enter the Pyramid next season. Nobody had any objections to that happening except one person, TJ.   That seems to have been backed up by comments from Petrie last night when the suggestion was put to him that the West should come in next season whilst the East needed further discussions.

If I were a West club, I’d be asking WTF is going on and who exactly is holding back their entry.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 So much for all the board directives patter of recent months, basically.

As I always said, there was never any "board directive", there was never any "done deal".

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

As I always said, there was never any "board directive", there was never any "done deal".

True, but the board directive angle was mentioned in PWG minutes, so had to be given some credence on that basis. We were always going to find out this month whether there was any actual substance to it. Would help in a lot of ways if they do have the power to break the logjam, but that seems to stretch no further than the SFA possibly having the ability to shoehorn in wildcard entrants into next season's LL entry playoffs, but it' s not clear yet that they can even do that without the LL, EoS and SoS all signing off on it first and whether that is just a compromise proposal. Also not clear that the LL would even be able to accept a Tayside playoff champion should one ever emerge in terms of their constitution, and whether the HL will be amenable to ever accepting one, given both they and the NRSJFA appear to want to keep things as is.

[GNU_Linux]

Glenrothes have confirmed on their facebook they have been accepted by the EOS.

[Ross.]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Apparently at the last PWG meeting, one of the delegates wanted to agree from the outset of the meeting that the West could enter the Pyramid next season. Nobody had any objections to that happening except one person, TJ.   That seems to have been backed up by comments from Petrie last night when the suggestion was put to him that the West should come in next season whilst the East needed further discussions.

If I were a West club, I’d be asking WTF is going on and who exactly is holding back their entry.

Sounds a lot like Tom Johnstone has done exactly what you would expect Tom Johnstone to do. Anything that changes is going to require several clubs forcing the change to happen. I was hoping that had already been the case, but it would seem it is going to need an even more forceful, and fairly risky push from those who want to join the pyramid at some level.

[AlanCamelonfan]

56 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

As I always said, there was never any "board directive", there was never any "done deal".

Where's Larry now and Kilbowie 

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Sounds a lot like Tom Johnstone has done exactly what you would expect Tom Johnstone to do. Anything that changes is going to require several clubs forcing the change to happen. I was hoping that had already been the case, but it would seem it is going to need an even more forceful, and fairly risky push from those who want to join the pyramid at some level.

It's risky considering it's app about saving himself had he got west in but east isn't coz of the regional split they want to do and say that's the reason. The way he has gone about it he's put his own job at risk 

[TheLad]

Mother of fūcking God, how do these people progress within football or elsewhere? 

I would suspect that non-league football doesn't matter all that much to them and this whole episode is just a pain in the arse that isn't a high priority to them and they cannot understand why it is, to so many others.
With the other issues on the table for Scottish football, I could probably understand that a bit.

[Sergeant Wilson]

30 minutes ago, TheLad said:

I would suspect that non-league football doesn't matter all that much to them and this whole episode is just a pain in the arse that isn't a high priority to them and they cannot understand why it is, to so many others.
With the other issues on the table for Scottish football, I could probably understand that a bit.

So could I if the other issues were being dealt with halfway competently.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I for one find myself utterly shocked to read that Johnstone has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, not one single person could see that coming. If the man had even a modicum of self awareness he’d resign after this farce. He’s set clubs back years now based on false promises and all but brought about the end of the sjfa through his own self important ego.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I for one find myself utterly shocked to read that Johnstone has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, not one single person could see that coming. If the man had even a modicum of self awareness he’d resign after this farce. He’s set clubs back years now based on false promises and all but brought about the end of the sjfa through his own self important ego.

As I have always said, the EoS are not blocking West Region entry and never have, neither have any other leagues.

[Robert James]

7 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I for one find myself utterly shocked to read that Johnstone has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, not one single person could see that coming. If the man had even a modicum of self awareness he’d resign after this farce. He’s set clubs back years now based on false promises and all but brought about the end of the sjfa through his own self important ego.

TJ ridiculed the pyramid at the outset

He later promised Tier 5 for the Juniors alongside the Lowland, but failed

He stated all in, or all out, but didn't deliver the North Juniors' participation

He seemed to have negotiated Tier 6 for the West, only apparently to throw it away on an East pipe dream.

What next, is the obvious question ? 

[Ross.]

4 minutes ago, Robert James said:

TJ ridiculed the pyramid at the outset

He later promised Tier 5 for the Juniors alongside the Lowland, but failed

He stated all in, or all out, but didn't deliver the North Juniors' participation

He seemed to have negotiated Tier 6 for the West, only apparently to throw it away on an East pipe dream.

What next, is the obvious question ? 

If the will is there from a minimum of 8 clubs(Would give a 28 game season if the played 4*) then there is still the possibility of a West League falling in below the LL.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

If the will is there from a minimum of 8 clubs(Would give a 28 game season if the played 4*) then there is still the possibility of a West League falling in below the LL.

Id love to see a league with Bankies, Troon, Cumnock, Ladeside, Largs, Kilwinning, Yoker, Maryhill, Petershill, Gartcairn and hopefully Beith etc as a LL2, (ive no idea of the thoughts of those clubs, just places I like visiting and clubs I admire) i’ve no idea which clubs responded positively to bsc last year but I believe there was widespread interest.