Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

Kilwinning and BSC Glasgow? They would be the prime suspects based on what was happening this time last year.

Edited January 7, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

It’s important that clubs understand that there is no “done deal” and the ERJFA’s claim on their website that they will be tier 6 next season is entirely misleading as it stands.  It is important that this is clarified given some of the stuff being banded around in Junior circles.  I heard that the kind of chat going round ERJFA clubs is “no ifs, no buts, we’re tier 6 next season”, that clearly is not the case.

The SJFA are discussing aligning all rules, regulations and procedures with the SFA, that is the main discussion currently at PWG meetings. I assume the SJFA’s and each Regions rulebooks would need to be largely torn up and re-written, with re-instatement dumped, and for that to then be approved at an EGM/AGM. Junior rule changes need to be agreed by member clubs.

I would presume once that is completed, discussions will turn towards specifics on how to integrate the Juniors into the Pyramid and play-off system. No plan has been tabled for anyone to discuss or agree/disagree with, but it will require agreement by all leagues and for that to happen each league will take the proposal back to its board/members for approval/rejection. That all takes time.

Whether it can all be completed and passed in time for next season who knows, but one thing is certain, the SFA, LL, EoS and SoS all have to agree the changes to the play-off rules in order to accommodate extra leagues. Presumably relegation rules would also have to be amended IF there were two parallel leagues in the east, stipulating which league clubs would fall into. Of course, if the boundary had to be moved to accommodate Tayside clubs, that’s another hurdle to be overcome.

My own take on it is the SFA want all of this off their plate and just want to accede to the SJFA’s demands and drop the Juniors into the Pyramid in their entirety (hence the October email from Maxwell), they see it as the quickest solution. What they seemed to have failed to realise is they can’t do this without approval of all the leagues currently in the Pyramid, and I very much doubt the EoS will give approval to the ERJFA entering the Pyramid play-offs, and the posturing by the ERJFA doesn’t help their case either.

So when you’re being told “it’s a done deal for next season” bear this in mind.

[Jason King]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It’s important that clubs understand that there is no “done deal” and the ERJFA’s claim on their website that they will be tier 6 next season is entirely misleading as it stands.  It is important that this is clarified given some of the stuff being banded around in Junior circles.  I heard that the kind of chat going round ERJFA clubs is “no ifs, no buts, we’re tier 6 next season”, that clearly is not the case.

The SJFA are discussing aligning all rules, regulations and procedures with the SFA, that is the main discussion currently at PWG meetings. I assume the SJFA’s and each Regions rulebooks would need to be largely torn up and re-written, with re-instatement dumped, and for that to then be approved at an EGM/AGM. Junior rule changes need to be agreed by member clubs.

I would presume once that is completed, discussions will turn towards specifics on how to integrate the Juniors into the Pyramid and play-off system. No plan has been tabled for anyone to discuss or agree/disagree with, but it will require agreement by all leagues and for that to happen each league will take the proposal back to its board/members for approval/rejection. That all takes time.

Whether it can all be completed and passed in time for next season who knows, but one thing is certain, the SFA, LL, EoS and SoS all have to agree the changes to the play-off rules in order to accommodate extra leagues. Presumably relegation rules would also have to be amended IF there were two parallel leagues in the east, stipulating which league clubs would fall into. Of course, if the boundary had to be moved to accommodate Tayside clubs, that’s another hurdle to be overcome.

My own take on it is the SFA want all of this off their plate and just want to accede to the SJFA’s demands and drop the Juniors into the Pyramid in their entirety (hence the October email from Maxwell), they see it as the quickest solution. What they seemed to have failed to realise is they can’t do this without approval of all the leagues currently in the Pyramid, and I very much doubt the EoS will give approval to the ERJFA entering the Pyramid play-offs, and the posturing by the ERJFA doesn’t help their case either.

So when you’re being told “it’s a done deal for next season” bear this in mind.

 

[Vollyman]

It’s important that clubs understand that there is no “done deal” and the ERJFA’s claim on their website that they will be tier 6 next season is entirely misleading as it stands.  It is important that this is clarified given some of the stuff being banded around in Junior circles.  I heard that the kind of chat going round ERJFA clubs is “no ifs, no buts, we’re tier 6 next season”, that clearly is not the case.
The SJFA are discussing aligning all rules, regulations and procedures with the SFA, that is the main discussion currently at PWG meetings. I assume the SJFA’s and each Regions rulebooks would need to be largely torn up and re-written, with re-instatement dumped, and for that to then be approved at an EGM/AGM. Junior rule changes need to be agreed by member clubs.
I would presume once that is completed, discussions will turn towards specifics on how to integrate the Juniors into the Pyramid and play-off system. No plan has been tabled for anyone to discuss or agree/disagree with, but it will require agreement by all leagues and for that to happen each league will take the proposal back to its board/members for approval/rejection. That all takes time.
Whether it can all be completed and passed in time for next season who knows, but one thing is certain, the SFA, LL, EoS and SoS all have to agree the changes to the play-off rules in order to accommodate extra leagues. Presumably relegation rules would also have to be amended IF there were two parallel leagues in the east, stipulating which league clubs would fall into. Of course, if the boundary had to be moved to accommodate Tayside clubs, that’s another hurdle to be overcome.
My own take on it is the SFA want all of this off their plate and just want to accede to the SJFA’s demands and drop the Juniors into the Pyramid in their entirety (hence the October email from Maxwell), they see it as the quickest solution. What they seemed to have failed to realise is they can’t do this without approval of all the leagues currently in the Pyramid, and I very much doubt the EoS will give approval to the ERJFA entering the Pyramid play-offs, and the posturing by the ERJFA doesn’t help their case either.
So when you’re being told “it’s a done deal for next season” bear this in mind.

Surely the majority must prevail the situation that one association can veto decisions must cease. The days of the tail wagging the dog should be stopped. I understand that Mr Maxwell has convened a meeting with all SPFL chairman this month the agenda being The future of Scottish Football. Hopefully the SFA can reveal details of all league formations both senior and non - leagues plus all relegation and promotion issues
The SFA as the governing body should adopt a uniform set of rules to be implemented throughout Scottish Football instead of each association having there rules and criteria.

[Burnie_man]

7 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Surely the majority must prevail the situation that one association can veto decisions must cease. The days of the tail wagging the dog should be stopped. I understand that Mr Maxwell has convened a meeting with all SPFL chairman this month the agenda being The future of Scottish Football. Hopefully the SFA can reveal details of all league formations both senior and non - leagues plus all relegation and promotion issues
The SFA as the governing body should adopt a uniform set of rules to be implemented throughout Scottish Football instead of each association having there rules and criteria.

You can't ignore rules and regulations.  There are rules governing how the play-offs will work and the SFA, LL, EoS and SoS all have to agree to any changes,  just the same as the  play-off regulations for the SPFL/LL/HL,  all three plus the SFA need to agree any changes.  Therefore, it's uniform.

The SJFA are adopting SFA rules so that will be uniform, but that will also take time.

Never heard of that meeting, but I doubt it has anything to do with the ongoing work of the PWG, and the SFA can't ride roughshod over that. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Burnie_man

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Surely the majority must prevail the situation that one association can veto decisions must cease. The days of the tail wagging the dog should be stopped. I understand that Mr Maxwell has convened a meeting with all SPFL chairman this month the agenda being The future of Scottish Football. Hopefully the SFA can reveal details of all league formations both senior and non - leagues plus all relegation and promotion issues
The SFA as the governing body should adopt a uniform set of rules to be implemented throughout Scottish Football instead of each association having there rules and criteria.

The future of Scottish Football and only SPFL chairmen are invited along. Kind of tells you all you need know.

 

[Vollyman]

The future of Scottish Football and only SPFL chairmen are invited along. Kind of tells you all you need know.
 

No doubt the share of sponsorship money in the William Hill Scottish Cup will be discussed and how to reduce the number of non-league clubs taking part.

[Vollyman]

The done deal has included the playoffs,each year the West of Scotland champions will play the ERJFA champions the winners will then play the winners of EOS and SOS to decide who is promoted to the LL (this subject to clubs who meet entry rules to the LL)

[Jason King]

If its a done deal as you say - are you looking forward to leaving behind the Juniors in the summer and becoming a senior club?

[Burnie_man]

The done deal has included the playoffs,each year the West of Scotland champions will play the ERJFA champions the winners will then play the winners of EOS and SOS to decide who is promoted to the LL (this subject to clubs who meet entry rules to the LL)

There is no done deal, not sure how more plainly I can put it [emoji15]

[Cyclizine]

31 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

The done deal has included the playoffs,each year the West of Scotland champions will play the ERJFA champions the winners will then play the winners of EOS and SOS to decide who is promoted to the LL (this subject to clubs who meet entry rules to the LL)

So what happens if a licenced North of Tay ERJFA club wins the playoff? Do they play the NRJFA champion for a Highland League place? The boundary still exists.

[FairWeatherFan]

35 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

The done deal has included the playoffs,each year the West of Scotland champions will play the ERJFA champions the winners will then play the winners of EOS and SOS to decide who is promoted to the LL (this subject to clubs who meet entry rules to the LL)

So how does it work with only 3 licensed champions?

Edited January 7, 2019 by FairWeatherFan

[Salvo Montalbano]

The done deal has included the playoffs,each year the West of Scotland champions will play the ERJFA champions the winners will then play the winners of EOS and SOS to decide who is promoted to the LL (this subject to clubs who meet entry rules to the LL)

So there's an agreement that the leagues will have to finish a week or two earlier than before then to fit in another round of play-offs? There's an agreement about what happens if a team North of the Tay wins the East Juniors? There's an agreement as to which league a team in the East would go down to if they're relegated? There's an agreement that the EoS Champion will play in a play-off despite the EoS themselves saying there's no agreement? How did this all happen and when? Where does this info come from? How many junior sides are currently licensed or could get one for a play-off?

[Vollyman]

If its a done deal as you say - are you looking forward to leaving behind the Juniors in the summer and becoming a senior club?

I am happy supporting my club at any level it looks like we will still be playing in non -league football next year in the same league and part of the pyramid system at either tier 6 or 7

[Hillonearth]

I think the main reason it's been on the back burner in the West in recent months is the fact that clubs over here understood that they were joining from Tier 6 down in the pyramid next season in an orderly move.

Were that now not to happen, I think we'll see a repeat of last year's East exodus to a breakaway league, I'd imagine initially under EoS auspices - much like last season very few will show their hand immediately, but will wait to see the dominoes start falling.

In this scenario there will be some holdouts for sure - maybe even some high-profile ones - but most clubs are run by pragmatists who I imagine will see the writing on the wall.

 

[glensmad]

4 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I think the main reason it's been on the back burner in the West in recent months is the fact that clubs over here understood that they were joining from Tier 6 down in the pyramid next season in an orderly move.

Were that now not to happen, I think we'll see a repeat of last year's East exodus to a breakaway league, I'd imagine initially under EoS auspices - much like last season very few will show their hand immediately, but will wait to see the dominoes start falling.

In this scenario there will be some holdouts for sure - maybe even some high-profile ones - but most clubs are run by pragmatists who I imagine will see the writing on the wall.

 

I think a lot of clubs are "watching with interest" to see who blinks first.

[FairWeatherFan]

In terms of relegation from the Lowland League the standing practice is that clubs nominate what league they want and all the leagues have to agree to it.

 

[Jason King]

8 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

I am happy supporting my club at any level it looks like we will still be playing in non -league football next year in the same league and part of the pyramid system at either tier 6 or 7

But not in the "Junior" grade, you've been banging the drum for it but are now happy being part of its death.

Massive aboutface from you there.

 

[Vollyman]

But not in the "Junior" grade, you've been banging the drum for it but are now happy being part of its death.
Massive aboutface from you there.
 What a load of rubbish my club voted in favour of the pyramid yes I have defended junior football against the critics who overnight forgot their roots,people with delusions of grandeur who were for decades stuck in the lower leagues of junior football. I have never criticised the clubs who have the resources and tasted success in junior football on making the move. Who knows maybe my club will rent a licensed ground and join the LL[emoji1]

[Burnie_man]

".........critics who overnight forgot their roots, people with delusions of grandeur who were for decades stuck in the lower leagues of junior football"

Aye, know your place and don't get ideas above your station,  goodness me