Junior football, what is the future?

[Garret Deasy]

On 12/21/2018 at 14:17, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I don't know what blog that is, but it's horseshit you are reading. Ill-informed and sneering horseshit.

There are not enough clubs! Every village should have one, community focussed and part of one nationwide pyramid.

Let them have their village team by all means, give the two old guys and a dug somewhere to go on a Saturday afternoon, but if you read the blog excerpt it questions the "tail wagging the dog".  Namely that Round the backey Wanderers has a vote equal to that of the full time professional clubs on the direction and future of Scottish football. 

Does 1 club having 1 vote regardless of size, age or impact make sense? You only have to look at the Cove Rangers wee guy who is President of the SFA to see a man totally out of his depth.  A professionally run sport? I think not. 

(Informed, sneering yes but there is a lot to sneer at,  horseshit not.)

[Robert James]

On 22/12/2018 at 20:15, GNU_Linux said:

The following have floodlights (tier of the west each club is in included)

Ardrossan (3)
Ashfield (4)
Benburb (2)
Carluke (4)
Cumnock (1)
Gartcairn (3)
Greenock (3)
Maryhill (3)
Petershill (1)
Port Glasgow (3)
Renfrew (1)
Rossvale (2)
Rutherglen (2)
Shotts (3)
Whitletts (2)
 

No floodlights at Pollok. Is the club now considering a planning application with a view to installation ? 

And what is the updated situation about the Holm Park redevelopment ? Do the plans include floodlights ? 

[Robert James]

On 22/12/2018 at 17:43, FairWeatherFan said:

From the EoS minutes of a meeting in October:

Very helpful, as it clarifies the primacy of the  EoSL in the east at tier 6.  

Has anyone seen the PWG Minutes for the meeting on 14th November ?

And............its Christmas. Have a good one.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

No floodlights at Pollok. Is the club now considering a planning application with a view to installation ? 
And what is the updated situation about the Holm Park redevelopment ? Do the plans include floodlights ? 

Should be done by the end of the season for the pitch and floodlights. The plans have always included lights.

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 hours ago, Robert James said:

Very helpful, as it clarifies the primacy of the  EoSL in the east at tier 6.  

Has anyone seen the PWG Minutes for the meeting on 14th November ?

And............its Christmas. Have a good one.

 

Christmas is tomorrow. It'll be just as good as your Christmas, it"ll be at the same level as yours with different presents.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 hours ago, Robert James said:

Very helpful, as it clarifies the primacy of the  EoSL in the east at tier 6.  

Has anyone seen the PWG Minutes for the meeting on 14th November ?

And............its Christmas. Have a good one.

Stuff from the PWG really only leaks out when TJ has something positive to spin.

[garrellburn]

On 22/12/2018 at 20:32, Sergeant Wilson said:

There's a few in there that have lights and virtually nothing else.

Thats because they are grounds built and owned by local authority with an eye to generating revenue from pitch hires to clubs which do not have any followers. The junior clubs are simply classed like all the others as having somewhere to play their games but with no regard for any spectators.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 minutes ago, garrellburn said:

Thats because they are grounds built and owned by local authority with an eye to generating revenue from pitch hires to clubs which do not have any followers. The junior clubs are simply classed like all the others as having somewhere to play their games but with no regard for any spectators.

I know, the point I was making was that too much emphasis is put on lights by the authorities. 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

On 12/22/2018 at 15:15, GNU_Linux said:

The following have floodlights (tier of the west each club is in included)

Ardrossan (3)
Ashfield (4)
Benburb (2)
Carluke (4)
Cumnock (1)
Gartcairn (3)
Greenock (3)
Maryhill (3)
Petershill (1)
Port Glasgow (3)
Renfrew (1)
Rossvale (2)
Rutherglen (2)
Shotts (3)
Whitletts (2)
 

No disrespect to any of those clubs but this shows that if the WRSJFA enters the pyramid intact as the west feeder to the LL there could be no promotion to the LL from the west for a very long time, if Talbot and a few others are happy where they are and don't make an effort to get licensed.

I think Clydebank and Yoker will also be on this list soon after Holm Park gets redeveloped and the former are probably the only club likely to want it badly enough and also large enough to be able to put the finances to mount a credible title challenge any time soon. Clydebank could even try to get licensed by March 31st using Maryhill's ground and apply for the LL vacancy created by Selkirk folding. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[GNU_Linux]

No disrespect to any of those clubs but this shows that if the WRSJFA enters the pyramid intact as the west feeder to the LL there could be no promotion to the LL from the west for a very long time, if Talbot and a few others are happy where they are and don't make an effort to get licensed.
I think Clydebank and Yoker will also be on this list soon after Holm Park gets redeveloped and the former are probably the only club likely to want it badly enough and also large enough to be able to put the finances to mount a credible title challenge any time soon. Clydebank could even try to get licensed by March 31st using Maryhill's ground and apply for the LL vacancy created by Selkirk folding. 

Thats partially why I can forsee a LL2 which grabs x amount of west teams who want to pursue promotion/licensing

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Clydebank licensed by March 31st using Maryhill's ground and apply for the LL vacancy created by Selkirk folding. 

That’d be good for us, so long as Selkirk reform in the EOSL. But id equally happy moving to a LL2! Regardless I hope the junior game thrives whatever happens!

[LongTimeLurker]

It's Civil Service Strollers who were pushing LL2 and they don't have floodlights and can expect to be ousted from the LL soon if they don't install them or get a suitable groundshare as they are likely lose their licence when it is next up for review, so there may be a self-serving motive involved. Time will tell. 

If you are an LL club afraid about losing LL status having the floodlights licensing requirement block most of the WRSJFA and having the ERSJFA in but not really a factor in progression terms as dev was suggesting might happen probably looks quite good. At that point you only need a few ex-junior clubs from the EoS plus Clydebank in LL2 to try to engineer a closed shop.

Edited December 25, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's Civil Service Strollers who were pushing LL2 and they don't have floodlights and can expect to be ousted from the LL soon if they don't install them or get a suitable groundshare as they are likely lose their licence when it is next up for review, so there may be a self-serving motive involved. Time will tell.

Supposedly existing members have a bit of time on their side in terms of getting floodlights in place. 2021 rings a bell but can't recall if that would apply to 2020/21 or 2021/22. So the likes of Civil Service Strollers have some time yet to find a solution.

 

[archieb]

13 hours ago, Robert James said:

No floodlights at Pollok. Is the club now considering a planning application with a view to installation ? 

No plan yet for floodlights at Pollok afaik, although that could change if the club decides to seriously pursue licensing.

[LongTimeLurker]

Comeontheloknow (better not to use his real name online even though most of us know it) used to claim floodlights would be a major problem for Pollok for planning permission reasons as there would inevitably be complaints from the owners of neighbouring flats. He also used to be concerned about pitch dimensions from a progression standpoint, which is another possible way to suddenly throw a spanner in the works for a lot of junior clubs down the road.

[AlanCamelonfan]

48 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Comeontheloknow (better not to use his real name online even though most of us know it) used to claim floodlights would be a major problem for Pollok for planning permission reasons as there would inevitably be complaints from the owners of neighbouring flats. He also used to be concerned about pitch dimensions from a progression standpoint, which is another possible way to suddenly throw a spanner in the works for a lot of junior clubs down the road.

It's often a point for most clubs in housing schemes someone said that about camelon but stenhousemuir has houses at the back of the ground and they have lights

[LongTimeLurker]

Were Stenny's floodlights not installed as far back as the 50s? A lot has changed since then. Not impossible to do in highly urban areas, but there will be challenges for some clubs beyond the financial one, if they decide to go for it.

Edited December 25, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Were Stenny's floodlights not installed as far back as the 50s? A lot has changed since then. Not impossible to do in highly urban areas, but there will be challenges for some clubs beyond the financial one, if they decide to go for it.

Yeh I believe so

[cmontheloknow]

Yeah obviously objections to new lights could be raised - not insurmountable but the new flats next to the ground would be directly impacted. Annan are the most obvious club I can think of that had to install lights in a residential area in recent times. There will doubtness be others but that one sticks in the mind.

The pitch dimensions issue I believe was addressed with an alteration to licencing - of the levels entry, Bronze, Silver and Gold, the need for 110 x 70yds might now be silver?

Lok also need to address the poor spectator facilities and while plans were drafted for new toilets, not sure how much it has progressed behind the scenes.

Edited December 26, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Ginaro]

24 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Yeah obviously objections to new lights could be raised - not insurmountable but the new flats next to the ground would be directly impacted. Annan are the most obvious club I can think of that had to install lights in a residential area in recent times. There will doubtness be others but that one sticks in the mind.

The pitch dimensions issue I believe was addressed with an alteration to licencing - of the levels entry, Bronze, Silver and Gold, the need for 110 x 70yds might now be silver?

Lok also need to address the poor spectator facilities and while plans were drafted for new toilets, not sure how much it has progressed behind the scenes.

Minimum for entry level is 90 x 56m (98.4 x 61.2 yds), bronze is 95 x 60m (103.9 x 65.6 yds), think Newlandsfield is big enough for the former?

Suppose the only way you'd know the impact would be to do the detailed design work showing light levels at various points around the ground, like I've seen on planning applications before where houses are closeby.