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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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2 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Stop being stupid. Dundee highland and you know ithat.  Tayport could be lowland though

Scotland's geography is so bizarre and North / South doesn't really cut it. I live in a region that comes under NHS Highland, classed as a very remote rural area and has  a postcode that some companies feel gives them entitlement to slap a levy on any postage (or worse refuse to deliver fullstop). Yet we're about 30 miles south of Dundee.

The country is a very irregular shape and most of the population live in a broad diagonal band from Ayrshire to Aberdeen. The simple solution to the Level 5 split is to mirror the Junior regions as there's no sane way to do it in two. I know that's unpalatable for some reason to clubs above but IMO you'd have stronger, more competitive leagues with 3. The Highland League at present is, when considering overall strength, one of the weaker top leagues in Scotland. LL will be similar until promotion / relegation produces a natural order but it will surpass it given time.

Edited by cmontheloknow

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6 hours ago, G4Mac said:

So because the sjfa are now looking to play ball and junior clubs now see the benefit of the pyramid, the leagues that have bought into it from the get go have to step aside and 'do the right thing' by giving up their negotiated position. I'm not sure I agree.

For me, whatever the set up is in the coming years, the leagues and clubs that have been an integral part of the pyramid since its inception should remain in place. They should not be expected to step aside just because the juniors have came round to the idea 5 years later...... That people actually think that these clubs and associations should, speaks volumes. 

Alternatively, the format of tier 5 could represent footballing strength rather historic loyalty  to the seniors.

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2 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

Alternatively, the format of tier 5 could represent footballing strength rather historic loyalty  to the seniors.

Historic loyalty?

So...... meeting all the requirements of a league set up every year for 5 years (license conditions on and off the park), being the feeder for tier 4 and consistently having earned that right by buying into the pyramid from day one and continuing to progress your league in a whole host of ways counts for nothing?

..... All that is historic loyalty and should move aside because an untested side or sides, who have never taken part in the pyramid and may have historically rubbished the whole concept (from another association completely) believe they deserve it more because.......? 

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11 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Historic loyalty?

So...... meeting all the requirements of a league set up every year for 5 years (license conditions on and off the park), being the feeder for tier 4 and consistently having earned that right by buying into the pyramid from day one and continuing to progress your league in a whole host of ways counts for nothing?

..... All that is historic loyalty and should move aside because an untested side or sides, who have never taken part in the pyramid and may have historically rubbished the whole concept (from another association completely) believe they deserve it more because.......? 

Aye but are they any good at football?

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23 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Ignore the thread then, stoopid.

 

Better still BM we’ll just ignore you

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Just now, santheman said:

Better still BM we’ll just ignore you

That would be wonderful, thanks.

Never ceases to amuse that people who profess not to care can't stay away from this thread :lol:

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6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

That would be wonderful, thanks.

Never ceases to amuse that people who profess not to care can't stay away from this thread :lol:

Well it is a forum for Junior Football after all.

Have never said I don’t care btw always knew our esteemed leader TJ would come up trumps and even better knowing how much it must stick in your craw

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6 minutes ago, santheman said:

Well it is a forum for Junior Football after all.

Have never said I don’t care btw always knew our esteemed leader TJ would come up trumps and even better knowing how much it must stick in your craw

So much for being ignored :(

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8 hours ago, santheman said:

Well it is a forum for Junior Football after all.

Have never said I don’t care btw always knew our esteemed leader TJ would come up trumps and even better knowing how much it must stick in your craw

I've heard him compared to a lot of things, but Trump's a new low :)

Edited by Hillonearth

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10 hours ago, santheman said:

Well it is a forum for Junior Football after all.

Have never said I don’t care btw always knew our esteemed leader TJ would come up trumps and even better knowing how much it must stick in your craw

He hasn't come up trumps yet

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15 hours ago, santheman said:

Aye but are they any good at football? 

 From experience most teams in the LL and HL are on somewhat of a par with each other. There are a few exceptions to that of course but not many. That being said there aren't many better in the junior ranks either. 

However that wasn't the debate, the debate was whether or not teams who have been part of the set up from the beginning (when the juniors said no) should now move aside and let the junior teams, who think they are better, have their place in the league. For me that is a ridicous statement for anyone to make, that's like asking the bottom club in the spfl2 to move aside because Linlithgow or Talbot or Bonnyrigg think they are better on the park than said team..... Thankfully football doesn't and will never work that way. 

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3 hours ago, G4Mac said:

 From experience most teams in the LL and HL are on somewhat of a par with each other. There are a few exceptions to that of course but not many. That being said there aren't many better in the junior ranks either. 

However that wasn't the debate, the debate was whether or not teams who have been part of the set up from the beginning (when the juniors said no) should now move aside and let the junior teams, who think they are better, have their place in the league. For me that is a ridicous statement for anyone to make, that's like asking the bottom club in the spfl2 to move aside because Linlithgow or Talbot or Bonnyrigg think they are better on the park than said team..... Thankfully football doesn't and will never work that way. 

I  for one am certainly not advocating that any team involved in the pyramid from the start should "move aside" Surely the place to find that out is on the pitch where the best team(s) will come out on top based on football ability and a natural order will prevail.  I'm sure everyone wants to see the best teams in the top Leagues after all

 

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On 31/10/2018 at 09:18, Deanburn Dave said:

If there are to be  to tier6 then amalgamation in the East will have to happen. Ridiculous to think the other areas would tolerate 2 avenues to progress in the East. The only question is when the merge of the East Juniors and the EoSFL will happen and what the arrangements would be.

Keep it simple for 2019/20 :

* the WoSL is formed at tier 6, with 15 clubs from the West Region Premiership (the 16th team is relegated), plus the top team from the West Junior First League (=16 clubs)

* the residual East Juniors south of the Tay, be invited to join the EoSL, with the 4 highest ranked 'east'  Junior Super League clubs, joining the 3x4 highest Conference clubs at tier 6 level (=16 clubs) with tier 7 being regionalised

* the North Region Superleague & the East Region Super League Junior clubs north of Tayside, amalgamate and form 2 parallel geographically split conferences, for 2019/20 only. Thereafter the top 8 clubs from each regional conference, would form a new integrated tier 6 feeding into the HFL for 2020/21 (= 16 clubs), with tier 7 being regionalised

*  North Junior clubs in Moray, Inverness & Nairn be transferred into. an expanded NCL, at tier 7 (estimated 12 clubs) 

* the SoSFL would remain intact at tier 6 , as at present. (= 16 clubs). 

 

   

Edited by Robert James
typing errors

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Keep it simple for 2019/20 : * the WoSL is formed at tier 6, with 15 clubs from the West Region Premiership (the 16th team is relegated), plus the top team from the West Junior First League (=16 clubs)

 

You can't change the promotion and relegation numbers in mid season. All of the West Region Championship teams started this season knowing that 3 teams would be promoted and would replace 3 teams who would be relegated from the Premiership. Why change that now to only one ? Instead of "keeping it simple", that would cause way more headaches.

 

 

 

 

 

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Also current East juniors should not be getting a pass into the EOS Premier. East clubs had the chance to move earlier this year and didnt take the chance. Anyone joining the EOS thereflafter should be going into its lowest tier. As for the west the curent 3 up 3 down is fine. Teams involved may actually change in the west depending whether a LL2 happens or not.

 

 

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2 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

Also current East juniors should not be getting a pass into the EOS Premier. East clubs had the chance to move earlier this year and didnt take the chance. Anyone joining the EOS thereflafter should be going into its lowest tier. As for the west the curent 3 up 3 down is fine. Teams involved may actually change in the west depending whether a LL2 happens or not.

 

 

Lowland league 2 probably won't happen as quick as next season 

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9 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Lowland league 2 probably won't happen as quick as next season 

Why not? If there's going to be applicants for the Selkirk vacancy and the Lowland League itself supposedly went from idea to reality in the span of 6 weeks (or whatever it was). There's more than enough time to get something in place. It'd also be easier than trying to unpick any compromised Tier 6 structure put in place amongst the EoS, SoS and SJFA for next year.

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Assuming the Juniors are part of the Pyramid for 2019/20 what will be the position if Champions of the SJFA West Region Premiership refuse to participate in the Play-offs or decline promotion to the Lowland League?

Will promotion be made mandatory by the SFA? Will this still be the case if a Lowland League 2 is being created as mooted on the other thread?


If the leading Junior clubs do not make their move to join the Lowland League over the next few months they could find themselves at Tier 7 in the pyramid if Lowland League 2 (Tier 6) becomes a reality.

More to read at:

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/258689-pyramid-20192020/&page=24

Edited by Pyramidic

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Keep it simple for 2019/20 :
* the WoSL is formed at tier 6, with 15 clubs from the West Region Premiership (the 16th team is relegated), plus the top team from the West Junior First League (=16 clubs)
* the residual East Juniors south of the Tay, be invited to join the EoSL, with the 4 highest ranked 'east'  Junior Super League clubs, joining the 3x4 highest Conference clubs at tier 6 level (=16 clubs) with tier 7 being regionalised
* the North Region Superleague & the East Region Super League Junior clubs north of Tayside, amalgamate and form 2 parallel geographically split conferences, for 2019/20 only. Thereafter the top 8 clubs from each regional conference, would form a new integrated tier 6 feeding into the HFL for 2020/21 (= 16 clubs), with tier 7 being regionalised
*  North Junior clubs in Moray, Inverness & Nairn be transferred into. an expanded NCL, at tier 7 (estimated 12 clubs) 
* the SoSFL would remain intact at tier 6 , as at present. (= 16 clubs). 
 
   


So by this theory Thornton.Whitburn.Tayport and Kirriemuir would be placed in the new 16 team EOS/LL league??

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