Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, locheeboy said:

Absolute crap. There has been no discussion on a Tayside league with the SFA or PWG

The EOS is represented on the PWG, the EoS has mentioned a Tayside league most notably in their own minutes to its members. 

Going to go out on a limb and say they also brought it up in one of the many PWG meetings.

[locheeboy]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The EOS is represented on the PWG, the EoS has mentioned a Tayside league most notably in their own minutes to its members. 

Going to go out on a limb and say they also brought it up in one of the many PWG meetings.

You are correct about the minutes ! I would ask him where he got that from as I know there was no such discussion about a Tayside league. He also mentions the East juniors coming in ! Burnieman will be on in a minute putting the booty in again ( keyboard warrior ) claiming this that and the next thing. All I have done is publish the facts as they were passed to me. I have no agenda Burnie on the other hand ?

[boulderdomb]

I'm confused, does this new proposed Tayside league sit at tier 6 or tier 7? Therefore clubs north of the bridge move up to Tier 5 if they win and clubs south of the bridge stay at Tier 6 if they win as they move to the EoS? Or doesn't have a tier at all as it seems like people are applying for different leagues rather than moving up and down like a pyramid subject to a licence?

I understand bringing the existing west structure in place and rebranding it the West of Scotland League as this is the most simple and somehow putting the north juniors as a feeder to the highland league. 

[Burnie_man]

40 minutes ago, locheeboy said:

You are correct about the minutes ! I would ask him where he got that from as I know there was no such discussion about a Tayside league. He also mentions the East juniors coming in ! Burnieman will be on in a minute putting the booty in again ( keyboard warrior ) claiming this that and the next thing. All I have done is publish the facts as they were passed to me. I have no agenda Burnie on the other hand ?

You're obsessed

[AlanCamelonfan]

34 minutes ago, boulderdomb said:

I'm confused, does this new proposed Tayside league sit at tier 6 or tier 7? Therefore clubs north of the bridge move up to Tier 5 if they win and clubs south of the bridge stay at Tier 6 if they win as they move to the EoS? Or doesn't have a tier at all as it seems like people are applying for different leagues rather than moving up and down like a pyramid subject to a licence?

I understand bringing the existing west structure in place and rebranding it the West of Scotland League as this is the most simple and somehow putting the north juniors as a feeder to the highland league. 

If current ersjfa teams remained in Tayside league and win it they'd go into playoff for lowland league tier 5. What they are saying is for example Fauldhouse wouldo be tier 6 in ersjfa but if moved over to eosfl yes would be tier 7 but what is the point in them continuing to throw money at it travelling to tayside when they can have more games around edinburgh then get themselves into tier 6. Other than for Tayside their is no point in juniors

[LongTimeLurker]

Not according to what's in Dev's post. They would need to progress via the EoS if licensed, while teams north of the Tay could apply to the HL. Neither would be immediately compulsory. That reads like the ERSJFA not acting as a direct feeder to tier 5 either north or south of the Tay and nothing much really changing from how things are now. 

Hopefully the west region does get in at tier 6. That should be the easy part, but the longer this drags on the more you have to wonder whether it can still happen by next season and whether the LL2  proposal has a yet to be made clear agenda that involves detaching the west superleague clubs that can achieve licensing from SJFA control.

[boulderdomb]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not according to what's in Dev's post. They would need to progress via the EoS if licensed, while teams north of the Tay could apply to the HL. Neither would be immediately compulsory. That reads like the ERSJFA not acting as a direct feeder to tier 5 either north or south of the Tay and nothing much really changing from how things are now. 

Hopefully the west region does get in at tier 6. That should be the easy part, but the longer this drags on the more you have to wonder whether it can still happen by next season and whether the LL2  proposal has a yet to be made clear agenda that involves detaching the west superleague clubs that can achieve licensing from SJFA control.

This - from what I took from the OP was that the east juniors won't be a direct 'feeder' as such and instead will be rebranded as a senior league with the clubs having the option to apply to either EoS/HL making this more of a buffer/phase 1 than a restructure to allow the clubs to get used to being outside the juniors before being fully restructured/aligned with the rest of the pyramid.

[Dev]

14 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not according to what's in Dev's post. They would need to progress via the EoS if licensed, while teams north of the Tay could apply to the HL. Neither would be immediately compulsory. That reads like the ERSJFA not acting as a direct feeder to tier 5 either north or south of the Tay and nothing much really changing from how things are now. 

Hopefully the west region does get in at tier 6. That should be the easy part, but the longer this drags on the more you have to wonder whether it can still happen by next season and whether the LL2  proposal has a yet to be made clear agenda that involves detaching the west superleague clubs that can achieve licensing from SJFA control.

As I understand it this is a means to break the impasse with the Juniors in the east. If the North Juniors come on board at the same time then the Juniors will be entirely absorbed by the Seniors but they would be playing a significant part in Senior football, albeit not under a single Juniors umbrella.

The Tayside Senior League promotion situation is temporary just to get things moving. If the North is on board then a straight forward promotion/relegation with the Highland League should follow - well you never know!

Don't know what would become of the Junior Cup.

Presumably non-licenced Tayside Senior clubs (south of the Tay Bridge) would all have a chance to play for a place in the SFA Cup i.e. follow Camelon.

Would all of the new West Senior clubs be put into that qualifying cup too? Or would there be a new qualifying cup for the West and another for the North non-licenced clubs? 

[Burnie_man]

44 minutes ago, Dev said:

As I understand it this is a means to break the impasse with the Juniors in the east. If the North Juniors come on board at the same time then the Juniors will be entirely absorbed by the Seniors but they would be playing a significant part in Senior football, albeit not under a single Juniors umbrella.

The Tayside Senior League promotion situation is temporary just to get things moving. If the North is on board then a straight forward promotion/relegation with the Highland League should follow - well you never know!

Don't know what would become of the Junior Cup.

Presumably non-licenced Tayside Senior clubs (south of the Tay Bridge) would all have a chance to play for a place in the SFA Cup i.e. follow Camelon.

Would all of the new West Senior clubs be put into that qualifying cup too? Or would there be a new qualifying cup for the West and another for the North non-licenced clubs? 

So to try and understand this, the ERJFA/Tayside League would in theory be a Senior league but in reality there would be no change other than access to the Licencing process. No rights of promotion to HL only via application with no obligation to do so even if they are Licenced.  The clubs in the LL area have no promotion rights/obligations at all and have to join the EoS and work their way up to have access to LL play-offs, if Licenced.

If that is the case then there has to be a time bar put in place to merge the WL and Fife clubs with the EoS, you cannot continue the situation where Lothians and Fife are divided down the middle in separate league systems, that’s just a continuation of what we have at present and have always had.  Current Junior clubs would be allowed to carry on as they are as defacto senior clubs without fully committing to the Pyramid but having access to the Scottish Cup if they get Licenced, that cannot be allowed.

If this is all accurate it seems a clusterfuck to be honest, what is wrong with creating a proper Tayside Senior League for those north of the Tay and moving the WL and Fife clubs into the EoS en-masse, they could even play in their own Conference next season at tier 7 until things settle down the following season into a permanent structure.  Get the EoS and ERJFA (not TJ) into the same room along with the SFA and thrash it out. That would be the sensible move, but it’s clear this isn’t been dealt with sensibly.

Mind you, someone says it's a load of crap, so it can't be true.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Kilbowie Benches]

The ERJFA will effectively become the Tayside/Fife feeder to the LL.

If ERSJFA clubs choose to play in the EoSL then that’s up to them.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The ERJFA will effectively become the Tayside/Fife feeder to the LL.

If ERSJFA clubs choose to play in the EoSL then that’s up to them.

That's not what your man says, Tayside clubs need to go to HL.

[Kilbowie Benches]

The North Juniors will be the feeder for the HL.

Nobody will be forced to move from the ERJFA to the EoSL or vice vera.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The North Juniors will be the feeder for the HL.

Nobody will be forced to move from the ERJFA to the EoSL or vice vera.

We now have two Clydebank posters telling us different stories as to what is happening in the East and North! surreal lol!

[Kilbowie Benches]

There needs to be a statement from the SFA.

Maybe there will be one after January’s meeting but who knows.

 

[ShrimpLok]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

So to try and understand this, the ERJFA/Tayside League would in theory be a Senior league but in reality there would be no change other than access to the Licencing process. No rights of promotion to HL only via application with no obligation to do so even if they are Licenced.  The clubs in the LL area have no promotion rights/obligations at all and have to join the EoS and work their way up to have access to LL play-offs, if Licenced.

If that is the case then there has to be a time bar put in place to merge the WL and Fife clubs with the EoS, you cannot continue the situation where Lothians and Fife are divided down the middle in separate league systems, that’s just a continuation of what we have at present and have always had.  Current Junior clubs would be allowed to carry on as they are as defacto senior clubs without fully committing to the Pyramid but having access to the Scottish Cup if they get Licenced, that cannot be allowed.

If this is all accurate it seems a clusterfuck to be honest, what is wrong with creating a proper Tayside Senior League for those north of the Tay and moving the WL and Fife clubs into the EoS en-masse, they could even play in their own Conference next season at tier 7 until things settle down the following season into a permanent structure.  Get the EoS and ERJFA (not TJ) into the same room along with the SFA and thrash it out. That would be the sensible move, but it’s clear this isn’t been dealt with sensibly.

Mind you, someone says it's a load of crap, so it can't be true.

It does sound quite like what happened with the Isthmian League at reconstruction in England in the 90s.  Allows all the clubs to remain where they are for now while bringing them into the nationwide system but shows them the direction that everything will be going in future. 

So long as there is a direction of travel it doesn't seem a terrible short term solution.

Would be quite easy for the SFA to subsequently tell any licensed clubs in ERJFA that those south of Tay who wish to remain licensed need to realign to their correct geographical league of the EOS.  

[FairWeatherFan]

Anything that happens next year is only likely to be a short term decision. 

Cobble all the leagues together, allowing clubs to get licensed. Then HL2/LL2 proposals will pop up with clubs wanting greater promotion opportunities and avoid the prospect of  occasionally being denied by clubs deliberately avoiding a license.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The North Juniors will be the feeder for the HL.
Nobody will be forced to move from the ERJFA to the EoSL or vice vera.

Are you a board member?

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, ShrimpLok said:

Would be quite easy for the SFA to subsequently tell any licensed clubs in ERJFA that those south of Tay who wish to remain licensed need to realign to their correct geographical league of the EOS.  

So we'll have gone from the SFA telling clubs to join the EOS to get a licence, to allowing clubs in the ERSJFA as part of the pyramid to get a licence, and then finally to telling those ERSJFA clubs who got a licence to join the EOS if they want to keep it.

Wonderful.

[Black & Red Socks]

Surely the solution, and the best fit, is for the WRSJFA to bolt onto the Pyramid in it's entirety as has been spoken about often enough to thence become a feeder to the LL, the ERSJFA, minus - at the very least - the West Lothian clubs, becomes a Tayside League and, alongside the NRSJFA, becomes a feeder to the HL while the West Lothian clubs merge in an orderly fashion with an EoSFL that has proven itself more than accommodating to just such a type of well-ordered coming together in the very recent past?

Edited December 20, 2018 by Black & Red Socks

[glensmad]

35 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

Surely the solution, and the best fit, is for the WRSJFA to bolt onto the Pyramid in it's entirety as has been spoken about often enough to thence become a feeder to the LL, the ERSJFA, minus - at the very least - the West Lothian clubs, becomes a Tayside League and, alongside the NRSJFA, becomes a feeder to the HL while the West Lothian clubs merge in an orderly fashion with an EoSFL that has proven itself more than accommodating to just such a type of well-ordered coming together in the very recent past?

Far too sensible.