Junior football, what is the future?

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, stanley said:

I think we need to move past the discussion of who is to blame for the way the pyramid was implemented (personally, I don't think any one party is to blame; there is no easy answer and it's a combination of many factors) and find a way to move forward into an integrated pyramid set-up.

Precisely - you could put a degree of blame on all parties concerned in the current botch job.

It would be great to open anything-goes full engagement, however I suspect a natural degree of protectionism from various sides would scupper a solution acceptable to all.

[HTG]

9 hours ago, Jason King said:

Well then have a three way split at Tier 6.

The split needs to be at tier 5. It is simply not acceptable  to suggest that the half of the country with (guessing) 75% of the population should be expected to shoehorn all its clubs into tier 5

It's actually worse than that at the moment given that the empty half has 18 teams at tier 5 whilst the bursting at the seams half has 16. 

There should be no circumstances in which people try to resolve the issues in the southern half only. Logic dictates that you build a proper pyramid which accounts for depth and standard. Drawing a line on a map was just about the very least - absolutely the very least - the sfa could have done. So that's what they did. 

[Cyclizine]

4 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

The SFA wanted a quick and easy pyramid (nothing wrong with that) and imo chose the east, south and highland leagues to do that.

 

Of course they did, they're SFA affiliated leagues!

[HTG]

4 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 I think Mr Regan had no real understanding of the non league set up in Scotland and picked the 3 senior leagues.
 

 

He must have had an understanding. He's on the same board as Tom J. Their offices are in close proximity. He knows enough about Kelty. It's no longer a time to look back. Someone needs to get a grip and set out how it moves forward. And God help us if it's one of those committee outcomes where the end result tries to meet every vestige of self interest.

[Arthurlie1981]

He must have had an understanding. He's on the same board as Tom J. Their offices are in close proximity. He knows enough about Kelty. It's no longer a time to look back. Someone needs to get a grip and set out how it moves forward. And God help us if it's one of those committee outcomes where the end result tries to meet every vestige of self interest.

I agree it is not the time to look back, I was referring to an individual post and I was referring to Mr Regan at that point in time.

I agree it’s time to put self interest aside & do what is right, but that is very much easier said than done when there are many clubs who are not interested in the pyramid. I think the clubs who are, are going to have to break away imo.

[Goalie Hamish]

How about Regan, Doncaster, Tom Johnstone etc sit round a table with a blank sheet of paper and jot down what they think the Pyramid should look like below the SPFL., with no preconceptions or bias, and then work out how to get there.   This botch job has been caused by too much self interest.

[Burnie_man]

Never going to happen!

[Hillonearth]

26 minutes ago, Bishoptonbankie said:

Theres no way the EOSL and SOSL should be forced below Juniors in a pyramid, why should they be punished for the juniors failing to make progress?

I don’t think anyone’s ever mentioned “forcing” them below the Juniors, in much the same way no-one’s talking about jumping “queues”

The reality of the situation is however that very few teams in either league are either equipped or willing to step up, and any solution will have to take that into account. The shenanigans in the South over the last few years with the ostensibly larger sides desperately trying to avoid promotion would seem to bear this out. I suspect your Creetowns, Upper Annandales and Eyemouths would be happy in something that mirrors what they currently play in as much as possible.

There’s no point in starting any discussion with preconceptions. A starting position that the SoS and EoS are superior “just because” won’t get us anywhere.

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I don’t think anyone’s ever mentioned “forcing” them below the Juniors, in much the same way no-one’s talking about jumping “queues”

The reality of the situation is however that very few teams in either league are either equipped or willing to step up, and any solution will have to take that into account. The shenanigans in the South over the last few years with the ostensibly larger sides desperately trying to avoid promotion would seem to bear this out. I suspect your Creetowns, Upper Annandales and Eyemouths would be happy in something that mirrors what they currently play in as much as possible.

There’s no point in starting any discussion with preconceptions. A starting position that the SoS and EoS are superior “just because” won’t get us anywhere.

HIll on earth people are talking about jumping queues it pisses me off because going on about lowland league west and east which would mean they are. juniors wil and should come in at t6. none one thinks eosfl is superior but they are there and we arent.

[parsforlife]

As a path forward how does this sound?

 

West/central league formed at tier 6, taking in 12-16 clubs. Promotion to LL for licenced champions on the same basis as EoS and SoS, possibly with a 2nd spot made available into LL.

 

An agreement that should south of Tay have 175% of north of Tay licenced clubs. (This currently would need another 8 clubs) then we will move to a 3 way split tier 5. New tier 5 clubs would be based on league position with tier 6 leagues treated equally.

 

 

[parkcircus]

Lots of calls for Summer football, Irvine Vics manager in the Irvine Herald mentioning it.

Is that the one main thing that could change this game? Also that would bring in 12 weeks of the ability to play Friday night matches, having lived in Dublin and attending League of Ireland matches on a Friday and then making a night of it and still having the weekend for the family and "big team" football was great.

It runs into to issues with the big Scottish Cup, however not many junior clubs have made it past xmas in that cup.

Worth a thought? 

And I looked at the holidays of the Buffs players and more went on holiday in Sept than June, and April and Octo are more popular holiday times than they used to be.

[Cyclizine]

Summer football does not solve the fixture problem though. If your season runs July/August to May/June then you only have two months off maximum. If you translate that into a "summer" season, you'd be looking at February to November at the best.

European nations that have summer seasons generally have short league seasons, max 30 games and just one cup. They often play March to October or November, so not a long season.

Our weather is too unpredictable, really. It can be Baltic and blowing a gale in April and May. It would be easier just to start and/or finish the season earlier, in my opinion.

[Budandavodka]

Lots of calls for Summer football, Irvine Vics manager in the Irvine Herald mentioning it.
Is that the one main thing that could change this game? Also that would bring in 12 weeks of the ability to play Friday night matches, having lived in Dublin and attending League of Ireland matches on a Friday and then making a night of it and still having the weekend for the family and "big team" football was great.
It runs into to issues with the big Scottish Cup, however not many junior clubs have made it past xmas in that cup.
Worth a thought? 
And I looked at the holidays of the Buffs players and more went on holiday in Sept than June, and April and Octo are more popular holiday times than they used to be.

March till November season all day long for me. No games in December being played, January and February often the same. playing March till November gives greater scope of games being on in better weather. also opportunities for Friday night and Saturday night games in lighter nights.

[archieb]

1 hour ago, Budandavodka said:

March till November season all day long for me. No games in December being played, January and February often the same. playing March till November gives greater scope of games being on in better weather. also opportunities for Friday night and Saturday night games in lighter nights.
 

What do clubs and authorities do when they hit November and there is persistent inclement weather with fixtures still to  be played?

And when do grass parks get repaired and re-seeded etc if they're getting played on all summer?

This only works if you have 100% of clubs playing on artificial pitches (and with floodlights?)

[clash city rocker]

1 hour ago, archieb said:

What do clubs and authorities do when they hit November and there is persistent inclement weather with fixtures still to  be played?

And when do grass parks get repaired and re-seeded etc if they're getting played on all summer?

This only works if you have 100% of clubs playing on artificial pitches (and with floodlights?)

You would have to make sure that didn't happen. Plenty Saturdays and  Wednesday nights June , July , August. Scottish Cup would get most of its rounds completed first time of asking. Some of the pitches in juniors are now in fantastic condition , it's amazing what can be achieved nowadays in very little time with not a lot of sun. Talbot replaced their goalmouth no problem , stuff like that could be done during season June , July when clubs have a few away games due. Turfing almost the whole pitch is a thing of the past.

[Burnie_man]

You can't have a season finishing in winter without all clubs having floodlights and the ability to play midweek in Sept, Oct and Nov.

[theshed]

Yes lets just accommodate the bigot brothers.

You don't want to be in junior football, you have clear issues with the bigot brothers , what would make you happy ? Away from the bigot brothers in the juniors or back senior in amongst the bigot brothers?

[clash city rocker]

44 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

You can't have a season finishing in winter without all clubs having floodlights and the ability to play midweek in Sept, Oct and Nov.

And juniors can't play as they are without cramming half the season into last two months.

Does it matter if you play majority of matches early in season or later. May , June , July , August 3 games a week no probs if needed. Scottish Cup not creating a backlog. They manage it in Ireland 33 game season , no midweek , only use lights cause they chose to.

[Goalie Hamish]

6 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

And juniors can't play as they are without cramming half the season into last two months.

Does it matter if you play majority of matches early in season or later. May , June , July , August 3 games a week no probs if needed. Scottish Cup not creating a backlog. They manage it in Ireland 33 game season , no midweek , only use lights cause they chose to.

I think the point here is if there are games called off in August, September, October and November - and there will be - if you don't have floodlights then you don't have any wiggle room as you can't play catch-up in midweek.

[Shanner]

The Bigot brothers patter is magnificently shite.