Junior football, what is the future?

[Shanner]

I see Selkirk are kaput and withdrawing from the LL.

Obviously a shame for them, and I doubt it's going to be a recurring problem but it doesn't do much for the reputation of the league. 

Very much the sort of thing the more cultish Pyramid supporters would have a field day over if it happened to a top tier Junior side. 

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Shanner

[Shanner]

[cmontheloknow]

14 minutes ago, Shanner said:

I see Selkirk are kaput and withdrawing from the LL.

Obviously a shame for them, and I doubt it's going to be a recurring problem but it doesn't do much for the reputation of the league. 

Very much the sort of thing the more cultish Pyramid supporters would have a field day over if it happened to a top tier Junior side. 

 

Which it won't as the top Junior sides have generally as more reliable income stream and support. It's not a massive leap to suggest that had more Junior sides jumped into the LL at its foundation, then Selkirk would never have got near it in the race to stay with their peers from the EoS.

[FairWeatherFan]

30 minutes ago, Shanner said:

I see Selkirk are kaput and withdrawing from the LL.

Obviously a shame for them, and I doubt it's going to be a recurring problem but it doesn't do much for the reputation of the league. 

Very much the sort of thing the more cultish Pyramid supporters would have a field day over if it happened to a top tier Junior side. 

 

A top tier Junior side, only if it was a traditional top West or Tayside one.

Inverness City didn't run up a ton of debt, but they're out for at least a year. Then Bridge of Don Thistle have had another reinvention. Both were noted but nobody really batted an eye.

With the increased numbers in the West Premiership and changes forced in the East, you could find a few clubs that are top tier but wouldn't shock too many to find they've got off field struggles because of it.

[cmontheloknow]

24 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A top tier Junior side, only if it was a traditional top West or Tayside one.

Inverness City didn't run up a ton of debt, but they're out for at least a year. Then Bridge of Don Thistle have had another reinvention. Both were noted but nobody really batted an eye.

With the increased numbers in the West Premiership and changes forced in the East, you could find a few clubs that are top tier but wouldn't shock too many to find they've got off field struggles because of it.

Aye but very few have debts of £150,000!

[Hillonearth]

41 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A top tier Junior side, only if it was a traditional top West or Tayside one.

Inverness City didn't run up a ton of debt, but they're out for at least a year. Then Bridge of Don Thistle have had another reinvention. Both were noted but nobody really batted an eye.

With the increased numbers in the West Premiership and changes forced in the East, you could find a few clubs that are top tier but wouldn't shock too many to find they've got off field struggles because of it.

Closest parallel to Selkirk I can remember were Ballingry who adopted a similar "chase the dream/f**k the bills" approach a few years ago with an identical end result. They were roundly excoriated on here at the time and found little sympathy from what I recall.

It's sad to see any club that dates back to 1880 fold in such ignominious circumstances though - they had a nice quirky wee setup, which I hope at least the local ammy team can take over.

[Jason King]

3 hours ago, Shanner said:

Very much the sort of thing the more cultish Pyramid supporters would have a field day over if it happened to a top tier Junior side. 

You mean like Ballingry?

[Shanner]

1 hour ago, Jason King said:

You mean like Ballingry?

I mean in the current climate of people going out of their way to bemoan every aspect of the Junior game and bum up the LL. 

This development doesn't sit very well with that narrative. 

[FairWeatherFan]

41 minutes ago, Shanner said:

I mean in the current climate of people going out of their way to bemoan every aspect of the Junior game and bum up the LL. 

This development doesn't sit very well with that narrative. 

The real narrative here is to fear the Devil's Illuminations!

£37k in debt

£47k(?) Left to them in a will, but that's being held up due to a bill for their floodlights

The £110k in loans isn't getting chased up by the committee member that gave them.

If it hadn't of been for those pesky floodlights, they might just of gotten away with it.

[Jason King]

43 minutes ago, Shanner said:

I mean in the current climate of people going out of their way to bemoan every aspect of the Junior game and bum up the LL. 

This development doesn't sit very well with that narrative. 

As has already been pointed out if Junior clubs had engaged with the pyramid at the point of creation then the likelihood is that Selkirk would not have been anywhere near the LL and would have been able to play their way into it via the natural progression that is offered by a pyramid structure.

Instead they found themselves at a level where they spent more than they should have in what looks to be a case of one persons ego outstripping the current status of the club. I've been critical of the LL handling of this situation over on the LL forum as this doesn't reflect well on them as a governing body but overall one club mismanaging themselves into liquidation isn't exactly a problem unique to the lower reaches of the Scottish football pyramid and I see nothing in their demise to make me fear the future.

[Black Pennel]

Pardon ?...

They just "found" themselves at that level, did they ?...And somehow you're now blaming their demise on junior clubs deciding not to join the money train when they could see it was a flawed structure in the first place ?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

14 minutes ago, Black Pennel said:

Pardon ?...

They just "found" themselves at that level, did they ?...And somehow you're now blaming their demise on junior clubs

He done no such thing

[Black Pennel]

Tee-hee-hee...

But he sort of did...

[Jason King]

16 minutes ago, Black Pennel said:

Tee-hee-hee...

But he sort of did...

Only if you are a complete idiot, so I can understand why you saw something that wasn't there

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Shanner said:

I mean in the current climate of people going out of their way to bemoan every aspect of the Junior game and bum up the LL. 

This development doesn't sit very well with that narrative. 

But it does fit perfectly well with the LL is rubbish narrative Shanner doesn't it? For me, regardless of the Selkirk situation, The LL is still the best non league option, along with the HL, for players and coaches to play or manage......(my opinion only of course, formed through experience of both) 

Utilising one example of really bad management (on a clubs behalf) cannot be used as a driver to belittle any league set up.... Unless of course its not the actual issue of the club going out of business you are interested in. 

People will say that it 'shows badly on the league', but again,the league were not in control of Selkirks demise..... Selkirks previous committee were..... All the situation does is highlight a problem with the SFA assurance checks on club finances, as part of the licence process..... Again, nothing to do with the LL. 

The sooner the west juniors get involved and we have an eosfl and wosfl feeding the LL the better. Put an end to this juniors vs the world stuff and then we can all find out once and for all who deserves, on footballing merit, to play their football in the LL....... When this happens there will be no comfort blanket for any team (LL or top end juniors)..... Can't happen soon enough for me. 

[Shanner]

5 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

But it does fit perfectly well with the LL is rubbish narrative Shanner doesn't it? 

I'm in favour of the Junior sides joining the LL you verbose gimp.

[Black Pennel]

18 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

 

Utilising one example of really bad management (on a clubs behalf) cannot be used as a driver to belittle any league set up.... Unless of course its not the actual issue of the club going out of business you are interested in. 

 

You mean like the "whataboutery" above about Ballingry?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shanner said:

I'm in favour of the Junior sides joining the LL you verbose gimp.

And there we go into name calling.....is this primary school or a place where adults can debate and put forth their opinions in a clear, concise and civilised manner? 

You may well be in favour if it, I am too as you may guess, but utilising one off instances to further a narrative does nothing for the narrative.... Whether against the Lowland league or any other league or association for that matter....including the ballingry example above. 

I cannot wait for the whole thing to be settled, the wosfl formed and those clubs who get licensed and win their respective leagues, like Kelty, to have gained their place in the LL.... Then the whole debate should be a distant memory and everyone can move forward, together, as opposed to what we currently have. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Can people not confuse the fact that the argument here is the pyramid gives clubs a better platform for progression and offers increased financial incentives with an example of one club mismanaging its own finances?

[Shanner]

Just now, G4Mac said:

And there we go into name calling.....is this primary school or a place where adults can debate and put forth their opinions in a clear, concise and civilised manner? 

You may well be in favour if it, I am too as you may guess, but utilising one off instances to further a narrative does nothing for the narrative.... Whether against the Lowland league or any other league or association for that matter....including the ballingry example above. 

I cannot wait for the whole thing to be settled, the wosfl formed and those clubs who get licensed and win their respective leagues, like Kelty, to have gained their place in the LL.... Then the whole debate should be a distant memory and everyone can move forward, together, as opposed to what we currently have. 

you're far from concise.