Junior football, what is the future?

[jc1]

All teams leaving should automatically be deducted at least 15 points (and kicked out all cup competitions)  - they don't deserve to leave the juniors with any glory.
 
 

Agreed [emoji23]

[Jock Tamson]

Won't pretend to know the ins and outs and politics of it all, and don't really have the patience to sift through 587 pages. . So would any one of you fine people be as kind to give a brief idiots guide to what the latest is please?

Who's 100% going?

Who's a maybe?

What next for the club's who are choosing not to go?

Will the hands of the remaining clubs be forced into applying to leave?

Would appreciate if someone can give their opinion on the above.

Thanks in advance.

Jock

[Truthteller]

22 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Well clearly you are interested or you wouldn't be in the middle of this tear stained meltdown.

It doesn't worry you that a quarter of the top 32 sides in the East are leaving? It doesn't bother you that figure moves to just under a third of the top East leagues when you take out the teams who fall into the LL area?

I'd be very worried about the future of the structure I'm in if there comparable figures moving in the West.

Doesn’t bother me that these teams have left, that was their choice. Time will tell if they made the correct call.

The east region juniors will adapt accordingly as it is perfectly obvious that the remaining teams have no desire to be “senior “.

The quality of senior football has IMO  now been downgraded.

Its ok having your nice facilities but different when it comes to getting quality on the pitch.

 

 

[cmontheloknow]

20 hours ago, Jock Tamson said:

Won't pretend to know the ins and outs and politics of it all, and don't really have the patience to sift through 587 pages. . So would any one of you fine people be as kind to give a brief idiots guide to what the latest is please?

Who's 100% going?

Who's a maybe?

What next for the club's who are choosing not to go?

Will the hands of the remaining clubs be forced into applying to leave?

Would appreciate if someone can give their opinion on the above.

Thanks in advance.

Jock

As I've seen it...

13 applications passed (12 Junior, one SYFA) but 7 day cooling off period (in which time teams have to accept and make  EoSLmembership payment) before any official announcement. A few clubs have confirmed they're in since the meeting.

The full list: (updated with self confirmations)

Blackburn United
Bonnyrigg Rose
Camelon Juniors
Crossgates Primrose (facebook)
Dalkeith Thistle (website)
Dunipace (facebook)
Easthouses Lily (twitter)
Edinburgh United (facebook)
Haddington Athletic
Hill of Beath Hawthorn (twitter)
Hillfield Swifts (twitter)
Musselburgh Athletic
Tranent

What's next? Over to Pyramid Working Group.

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Robert James]

14 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

An exclusive video of the discussion:

 

Does this imply "Hello Goodbye" (pyramid) from the Beatles ?

[Jason King]

2 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

The quality of senior football has IMO  now been downgraded.

As has the quality of the East Region, last years champions have already gone, this seasons likely champions are going alongside a quarter of the top 32 clubs. If that doesn't dilute the quality of the "juniors" then I don't know what will!!!  The EoS structure will clearly be improved by these teams joining

[Jason King]

On ‎24‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 01:18, Truthteller said:

Having just looked at the EOS forum the EOS league should really be called "the greedy b *****d league"

when these charlatan junior teams leave the east region and eventually go we should have a party.

Better off without them.

  Can you let me know when the party is mate, I'd love to come along and see your speech!

Can you explain the benefits of staying Junior and why clubs improving their lot makes you so angry?

[Jock Tamson]

As I've seen it...
13 applications passed (12 Junior, one SYFA) but 7 day cooling off period (in which time teams have to accept and make  EoSLmembership payment) before any official announcement. A few clubs have said on Twitter they're in since then, Hill of Beath and youth side Hillfield Swifts being two.
The full list:
Blackburn United
Bonnyrigg Rose
Camelon Juniors
Crossgates Primrose
Dalkeith Thistle
Dunipace
Easthouses Lily
Edinburgh United
Haddington Athletic
Hill of Beath Hawthorn
Hillfield Swifts
Musselburgh Athletic
Tranent
What's next? Over to Pyramid Working Group.
 

Appreciated [emoji106]

Am I right in saying that these clubs will be gone at the end of this season?

If so, Is there a concrete plan in place for the remainers? Will it be a case of 1 by 1, they will also go? It appears like they may have no other option if they want to stay in a competitive league etc.

[bravehearts dad]

50 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

All teams leaving should automatically be deducted at least 15 points (and kicked out all cup competitions)  - they don't deserve to leave the juniors with any glory.

 

 

I think you had better stop eating cheese at supper time it’s giving you nightmares.  The biggest nightmare will be your wee team not applying and taking years playing catch up.

See ya at the back of the goals in about 15yrs when  or if you get there. If your carer takes ye out for a few hours.

[stanley]

8 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

As I've seen it...

13 applications passed (12 Junior, one SYFA) but 7 day cooling off period (in which time teams have to accept and make  EoSLmembership payment) before any official announcement. A few clubs have said on Twitter they're in since then, Hill of Beath and youth side Hillfield Swifts being two.

The full list:

Blackburn United
Bonnyrigg Rose
Camelon Juniors
Crossgates Primrose
Dalkeith Thistle
Dunipace
Easthouses Lily
Edinburgh United
Haddington Athletic
Hill of Beath Hawthorn
Hillfield Swifts
Musselburgh Athletic
Tranent

What's next? Over to Pyramid Working Group.

 

Dunipace confirmed on Facebook too.

[heedthebaa]

12 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

 Time will tell if they made the correct call.

 

 

 

That goes both ways 

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, Jock Tamson said:

 

Appreciated

Am I right in saying that these clubs will be gone at the end of this season?

If so, Is there a concrete plan in place for the remainers? Will it be a case of 1 by 1, they will also go? It appears like they may have no other option if they want to stay in a competitive league etc.

Yes, they will all become (if they accept) EoS members for 2018-19. 

There is no concrete plan yet announced other than Tom Johnston is negotiating pyramid entry (at tier 6 for the upper end of the grade) for the SJFA membership within the Pyramid Working Group. How successful this negotiation is remains to be seen - as does whether or not the Lowland / Highland boundary will shift to reflect the East SJFA's geographical boundaries. Then what about the North SJFA sides? Highland League demands floodlights which makes any progress from tier 6 to 5 difficult for them. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[bravehearts dad]

24 minutes ago, jc1 said:

Agreed

And when your and auld heads wee team move on from the juniors I hope you are still promoting the same criteria

[Jeek]

Who cares now anyway ? Teams have made their beds and will have to lie in them.
if yer team has went to the EOS, off ye go to the East of Scotland forum and good luck. At the end of this season you are history, move on and don't bother coming back, not interested.
if yer still gonna be a junior team then this is YOUR forum.

ARMAGEDDON!!!1!!1!

[Jason King]

Dalkeith confirm, http://www.dalkeiththistle.co.uk/news/east-of-scotland-league-application-update-2278089.html#.WuLqCpGzlvs.facebook

Never been to Dalkeith, might take a trip through next season to see them now.

[Jock Tamson]

What's the criteria for applying?

[LongTimeLurker]

4 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Dalkeith confirm, http://www.dalkeiththistle.co.uk/news/east-of-scotland-league-application-update-2278089.html#.WuLqCpGzlvs.facebook

Never been to Dalkeith, might take a trip through next season to see them now.

This part explains the seven day cooling off period mentioned on nonleaguematters:

...In the next few days we will give formal notification to the SJFA and the ERSJFA of our intentions to leave and allow them to plan for next season.

'Mon The Jags!!!

No announcements from the EoSFL on what happens next until the 12 junior clubs have officially told the SJFA that they are leaving.

[LongTimeLurker]

5 minutes ago, Jock Tamson said:

What's the criteria for applying?

One of them is being south of the centre point of the Tay Road Bridge (assuming only clubs that can play in the Lowland League if promoted can join since it is the east feeder for the LL), so there's probably no way in for Broughty Athletic. Beyond that it is undertaking to meet entry level licensing and becoming a full member of the SFA. The details on that are on the SFA website.

[superbigal]

If as Tom Johnston says (A big If) that Juniors all become part of the Pyramid at Tier 6

Should not be a great problem in West or in North.

Let's take a look at the East where that would mean them running alongside the EOS league/s

Base this on clubs currently leaving for EOS or being moved into the North of Scotland (Tay is the SFA line).

Using current league tables there are only 18 teams of the current 32 in the Superleague/Premier League left.

So Tier 6 East (Junior) Superleague is

Linlithgow, Penicuik, Broxburn, Dundonald,Sauchie, Boness,Newtongrange,Jeanfield,Kennoway,Tayport,Fauldhouse,Dunbar,St Andrews,Thornton,Arniston,Glenrothes.

 

Tier 7 East (Junior) Premier is left with

Bathgate, Whitburn, Pumpherston,Armadale,West Calder,Oakley,Craigroyston,Lochgelly,Rosyth,Harthill,Livingston,Stoneyburn,Kirkcaldy,Kinnoull,Scone,Lochore,Newburgh

 

Now in the EOS they have played a season to balance the teams (This is all theory and based on no one gaining promotion this year or end of next year to LL) and my "assumption" of the relative strength of teams.

So Tier 6 EOS

Kelty Hearts, Lothian Thistle, Leith Athletic, Preston, Herriot Watt, Tynecastle,Bonnyrigg Rose, Camelon, Hill o Beath, Musselburgh, Haddington, Blackburn, Tranent,Dalkeith, Edinburgh, Crossgates

Clearly 1 or 2 of the crack EOS teams will probably be promoted this or next year but it does at least give a potential idea of where Tom Johnston sees things going.

 

 

Frankly on paper appears to absolutely crazy to have 2 leagues in 1 area in a pyramid, but I suppose a bit more balanced than the juniors being tier 8 & 9 in the East which is the other scenario below the 2 EOS leagues

 

 

At least the "haters" Larry Duncan (Lochee Utd) & Mark Johnston (Carnoustie) will fit in at tier 6 North but with the HL requirements (Tougher than the LL) will never gain promotion.

Imagine Carnoustie being asked to improve their facilities !!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by superbigal

[Auld Heid]

3 minutes ago, superbigal said:

If as Tom Johnston says (A big If) that Juniors all become part of the Pyramid at Tier 6

Should not be a great problem in West or in North.

Let's take a look at the East where that would mean them running alongside the EOS league/s

Base this on clubs currently leaving for EOS or being moved into the North of Scotland (Tay is the SFA line).

Using current league tables there are only 18 teams of the current 32 in the Superleague/Premier League left.

So Tier 6 East (Junior) Superleague is

Linlithgow, Penicuik, Broxburn, Dundonald,Sauchie, Boness,Newtongrange,Jeanfield,Kennoway,Tayport,Fauldhouse,Dunbar,St Andrews,Thornton,Arniston,Glenrothes.

 

Now in the EOS they have played a season to balance the teams (This is all theory and based on no one gaining promotion this year or end of next year to LL) and my "assumption" of the relative strength of teams.

So Tier 6 EOS

Kelty Hearts, Lothian Thistle, Leith Athletic, Preston, Herriot Watt, Tynecastle,Bonnyrigg Rose, Camelon, Hill o Beath, Musselburgh, Haddington, Blackburn, Tranent,Dalkeith, Edinburgh, Crossgates

Clearly 1 or 2 of the crack EOS teams will probably be promoted this or next year but it does at least give a potential idea of where Tom Johnston sees things going.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You had an EoS league with 2 teams of  note (Kelty and LTHV) possibly losing 1.  A competitive East Super League with a few teams who would have pushed the top 2 in the EoS.

You now have an EoS league with 2 teams of note (Kelty & Bonnyrigg (assuming LLHV are promoted) and  possibly 2 leagues with a mixture of good and bad - if Kelty and Bonnyrigg are separated both leagues will end up 1 horse races - albeit more competitive than now.  A Super League with the remaining East/Central clubs now travelling 5 times to Tayside Once to Perth and twice to Darkest Fife - exactly the situation they didn't want.  

Instead of improving Scottish Football in the East you have merely diluted the quality over 3 leagues.  An average team doesn't suddenly become better because they change leagues.  

If the SFA and SJFA had shown proper leadership when the LL was originally formed you wouldn't have this situation.  Instead you would already be in a situation where teams had sorted themselves into appropriate levels.  The changes are a backwards step to move forwards - but when?  (I don't blame any team moving or EoS for what's  happened)