Junior football, what is the future?

[gwd440]

10 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Apologies - it's possible, same for Penicuik - but unlikely as they'd need to win every game to get 65 pts which probably wouldnt quite be enough. Kelty won the league with 65 but played 28 games. 

And it would rely on a monumental collapse by others... 

I was meaning Lochee could qualify by winning the Junior Cup, so there could possibly be 3 East Junior clubs in the Scottish Cup next season

[GordonS]

Apologies - it's possible, same for Penicuik - but unlikely as they'd need to win every game to get 65 pts which probably wouldnt quite be enough. Kelty won the league with 65 but played 28 games. 
And it would rely on a monumental collapse by others... 

You're forgetting Lochee are still in the Junior Cup.

[GLENAFTON93]

5 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

My mistake...it was and won at a canter.....did that make a difference to your ranking in the cup ie preliminary rounds  ....and you will be ranked differently this year because of your EoS participation......Will Bonnyrigg have a choice if they win the Super League or will the be the same as you were last season..Preliminary round/s...but still in the money big time I am led to believe.

 

Glenafton played two preliminary rounds  before playing Threave 1st round , Devoranvale 2nd and going out 3rd to Livingston, I have no idea what monies came to Glenafton in any rounds , but anyone visiting our ground now can see where it was invested.

Edited April 20, 2018 by GLENAFTON93

[Che Dail]

Just now, gwd440 said:

I was meaning Lochee could qualify by winning the Junior Cup, so there could possibly be 3 East Junior clubs in the Scottish Cup next season

Of course, forgot about that! 

[cmontheloknow]

6 minutes ago, gwd440 said:

And possibly Lochee Utd.

 

7 minutes ago, GLENAFTON93 said:

Glenafton played two preliminary rounds , before playing Threave 1st round , Devoranvale 2nd and going out 3rd to Livingston, I have no idea what monies came to Glenafton in any rounds , but anyone visiting our ground now can see where it was invested.

Comfortably 5 figures I'd have thought, and that's without taking into consideration gate share from the tie at Livvy.

[Black & Red Socks]

2 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

Thanks Gogsy...you have first hand knowledge with your team being there last season for the first time of entry.......So it is really gilding the Lily  a bit ..to say you r club is automatically in the BiG Scottish because you join the EoS......its preliminary round./rounds first..but you could argue  reasonably ..you are in the the cup..but not in the mainstream competition yet...fair.

Apologies if this has already been pointed out or explained by inference in subsequent posts, but you don't gain entry to any round of the Scottish Cup, preliminary or otherwise, simply by being a member of the East of Scotland Football League - you have to be a licensed member of the SFA first, or you have to win the various competitions that allow for entry without such a license. Again, simply being in the EoSFL isn't sufficient.

[gaz5]

Glenafton played two preliminary rounds , before playing Threave 1st round , Devoranvale 2nd and going out 3rd to Livingston, I have no idea what monies came to Glenafton in any rounds , but anyone visiting our ground now can see where it was invested.

£3k (P) + £3k (P) + £4k (R1) + £5k (R2) + £6k (R3) I believe, for getting to R3 from the prelims. Plus share of gate receipts.

[gwd440]

16 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

Apologies if this has already been pointed out or explained by inference in subsequent posts, but you don't gain entry to any round of the Scottish Cup, preliminary or otherwise, simply by being a member of the East of Scotland Football League - you have to be a licensed member of the SFA first, or you have to win the various competitions that allow for entry without such a license. Again, simply being in the EoSFL isn't sufficient.

This is correct.  But joining the EoSFL is a big step toward becoming licensed, as you can't now become licensed without being in the pyramid.

There are also two chances for unlicensed EoSFL teams to qualify for the next season's Scottish Cup:

a) win the EoSFL

b) win the Alex Jack Cup, then beat the SoSFL representatives in the South & East Cup Winners Shield, as Tynecastle have done this season.

[HTG]

On a different note, there is much angst within the junior hierarchy about the loss of clubs from the grade. The blame for their departure now sits with the SFA. 

The SFA decided that a team can't get a licence as a member of the SJFA. So those who are keen to secure that licence are jumping ship. It is likely we wouldn't be seeing movement on this scale if that decision had been reversed.

At the end of the day, instead of trying to persuade teams not to go, maybe the better solution would have been to create opportunity on the back of the commitment that came with the survey results. 

[Kilbowie Benches]

10 minutes ago, HTG said:

On a different note, there is much angst within the junior hierarchy about the loss of clubs from the grade. The blame for their departure now sits with the SFA. 

The SFA decided that a team can't get a licence as a member of the SJFA. So those who are keen to secure that licence are jumping ship. It is likely we wouldn't be seeing movement on this scale if that decision had been reversed.

At the end of the day, instead of trying to persuade teams not to go, maybe the better solution would have been to create opportunity on the back of the commitment that came with the survey results. 

Was never going to happen whilst TJ didn’t want to engage with the pyramid.

The blame lies squarely at his door for clubs leaving the Juniors.

[Glenconner]

On 18 April 2018 at 06:25, Afrojim said:

I'm not a BSC fan, I have no involvement with the club. I'm just not sure what ideal or sensitivity it is that people have that BSC as an organisation is offending. They're a private sports club owned and operated by their members, people pay to become members in order to avail of the services and facilities they provide. If there was no benefit to this then there would be no demand for it and therefore no club. People are entitled to spend money on what they want. There's thousands of sports clubs around the world operated on a similar basis, most German football clubs, the Foundation of Hearts, the Well Society, all of these organisations operate on the same premise resulting in what it is the members have predetermined will be beneficial to them, other members, the club and the wider community.  

If 750 or so members want to spend money helping BSC achieve its aims and benefit from membership then I genuinely don't see why that causes offence to anyone else in any way. They're a constitutional organisation, a registered charity and a licensed football club that have achieved a community award from the SFA, they're not profiting from their members or duping anyone out of their money. 

Something of the Gretna about them.

Where does the money come from?

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, HTG said:

On a different note, there is much angst within the junior hierarchy about the loss of clubs from the grade. The blame for their departure now sits with the SFA. 

The SFA decided that a team can't get a licence as a member of the SJFA. So those who are keen to secure that licence are jumping ship. It is likely we wouldn't be seeing movement on this scale if that decision had been reversed.

At the end of the day, instead of trying to persuade teams not to go, maybe the better solution would have been to create opportunity on the back of the commitment that came with the survey results. 

I think you know full well that the blame doesn’t lie with the SFA!  I appreciate they started out with the approach that any club could get a Licence which is probably the only thing they did wrong.  Linlithgow and BoD got their foot in the door before the SFA realised their error that in doing so they would have effectively killed off any hope of an integrated Pyramid stone dead.  Junior clubs would have sat back with their Licences (and full SFA dual memberships) and continued to ignore the existence of the Lowland League with the aid of the SJFA. Therefore, to get a Licence you join the Pyramid, perhaps if the SJFA had been a little more positive about engaging at the outset things would have been different.

Re your final point, I note that in the survey correspondence the SJFA referred to asking the SFA to remove this rule, why bother wasting everyone’s time?

Edited April 20, 2018 by Burnie_man

[HTG]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think you know full well that the blame doesn’t lie with the SFA!  I appreciate they started out with the approach that any club could get a Licence which is probably the only thing they did wrong.  Linlithgow and BoD got their foot in the door before the SFA realised their error that in doing so they would have effectively killed off any hope of an integrated Pyramid stone dead.  Junior clubs would have sat back with their Licences (and full SFA dual memberships) and continued to ignore the existence of the Lowland League with the aid of the SJFA. Therefore, to get a Licence you join the Pyramid, perhaps if the SJFA had been a little more positive about engaging at the outset things would have been different.

Re your final point, I note that in the survey correspondence the SJFA referred to asking the SFA to remove this rule, why bother wasting everyone’s time?

I think we're dancing round the same handbag. I am with you on the attitude to the pyramid thing. I was only really referring to the aftermath of the survey in February. Short window I know. 

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, HTG said:

I think we're dancing round the same handbag. I am with you on the attitude to the pyramid thing. I was only really referring to the aftermath of the survey in February. Short window I know. 

There's two points.

1. The majority of Junior clubs want to join the Pyramid

2. One of the SJFA's suggestions/recommendations/intentions was to ask the SFA to remove the rule requiring clubs to join the Pyramid to get Licenced.

These two points are at odds to one another.  Perhaps point 2 is no longer on the agenda given the outcome of the survey.

[Bluenortherner]

All this coming and going regarding teams with ambition and others with no appetite whatsoever echos the same as the Northern League have suffered over the years. They like the Juniors would have been much higher up the pyramid too if they only had not be so bloody stubborn also! 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Bluenortherner

[Burnie_man]

Haddington Athletic the latest club to officially confirm that they have applied to join the EoS.

[kefc]

2 hours ago, HTG said:

On a different note, there is much angst within the junior hierarchy about the loss of clubs from the grade. The blame for their departure now sits with the SFA. 

The SFA decided that a team can't get a licence as a member of the SJFA. So those who are keen to secure that licence are jumping ship. It is likely we wouldn't be seeing movement on this scale if that decision had been reversed.

At the end of the day, instead of trying to persuade teams not to go, maybe the better solution would have been to create opportunity on the back of the commitment that came with the survey results. 

Should the powers that be in the Juniors not have got on board with Licencing when it came out or even the past few years? They have no one to blame bar themselves.

I believe at their last meeting they were warning clubs away from getting licenced and the work needed to be done. Made them look rather silly when you see the criteria, research the facts and see the Licenced clubs table and who are currently Licenced.

Edited April 20, 2018 by kefc

[HTG]

33 minutes ago, kefc said:

Should the powers that be in the Juniors not have got on board with Licencing when it came out or even the past few years? They have no one to blame bar themselves.

I believe at their last meeting they were warning clubs away from getting licenced and the work needed to be done. Made them look rather silly when you see the criteria, research the facts and see the Licenced clubs table and who are currently Licenced.

I could have worded my post better.  One of their approaches could have been to talk to the sfa and shift the stand on licencing. This would be in addition to setting out how challenging it is. Basically the sjfa could have looked for hauners from the sfa on that front. 

[kefc]

How do we know the SFA didn’t approach the SJFA, I’m certain all non league club associations were asked to be part of the starting of a pyramid structure, SJFA refused to engage on the pyramid and Licencing and up until 6 weeks ago continued to do so.

The alarm bells should have rung last year when Kelty left never mind 5 year ago when the LL begun, they have lost all credibility especially in the East.

Edited May 3, 2018 by kefc

[buboy]

5 years ago kelty weren't interested either though were they. no clubs were so why would they have acted then if the member clubs were not interested