stanley Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Set up a Lowland League Division One East and West to slot under the current Lowland League. Longer term, hopefully it would become an East/West split at tier 5 but change takes time. Invite applications. Any clubs with a licence automatically get in if they apply. Other clubs that join are given a timeframe in which they must be licensed. Say, a season or two. Clubs must show that they are working towards a licence. EoS/SoS clubs can stay in their leagues if they want but they'll be pushed down a level. Need a minimum of ten clubs in each division in the first season and work it up to 16 once there are enough interested clubs. Vast majority, if not all, SoS clubs likely to stay where they are. Some of the EoS clubs would definitely move up straight into the new league but others would remain in EoS. Gives an opportunity for a number of junior clubs to move over together in leagues that could be of a decent quality if enough clubs move. I wouldn't allow reserve clubs at level six either although that might depend on the level of interest in the new leagues. Nothing ideal in any suggestions for the pyramid but there's no way the SoS can remain at level six long-term when it's a Dumfries & Galloway league and very, very few of the clubs appear to even be interested in moving up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tell_me_more Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Is this something that's actually happening, or just a suggestion. From a very good source discussions at regional witha view to an EGM looks like its in the pipeline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 From a very good source discussions at regional witha view to an EGM looks like its in the pipeline. That would be disastrous if its junior led. If its an independent group of clubs then brilliant, but the Junior hierarchy have messed up and destroyed the grade and shouldnt be allowed anywhere near anything new. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, tell_me_more said: From a very good source discussions at regional witha view to an EGM looks like its in the pipeline. I wouldn't trust the SJFA to deliver a pizza far less major change and entry to the Pyramid within a season. Finding a solution for everyone is frankly unachievable when you have clubs for and against a Pyramid, particularly when those at the top are hardly enthused by the idea. They can't even bring themselves to be open and honest and publish the results of their survey. Edited March 21, 2018 by Burnie_man 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tell_me_more Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 All the replies have not been received so how can they publish results? The majority are in favour so far. Clubs at the top in the West are obviously not enthused by it as it stands with access through the SOS EOS however ask them if they are interested in entering en masse and I think you will have a different outcome. Just my opinion. Your agenda seems more anti junior and pyramid at any cost rather than going through the proper procedure of consulting all the clubs and coming up with a system that is fit for the future and fair to all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, tell_me_more said: All the replies have not been received so how can they publish results? The majority are in favour so far. Clubs at the top in the West are obviously not enthused by it as it stands with access through the SOS EOS however ask them if they are interested in entering en masse and I think you will have a different outcome. Just my opinion. Your agenda seems more anti junior and pyramid at any cost rather than going through the proper procedure of consulting all the clubs and coming up with a system that is fit for the future and fair to all. If they don't have all the responses, how can they say there will be Regional meetings and EGM's? I have no agenda, my opinion is based on previous experience at similar meetings in the past. Nobody should be under any illusion that the SJFA will lead them into the Pyramid anytime soon, they certainly wont be for giving up any power. As for a system fit and fair for all, how do you achieve that when there are polar opposite opinions even within the West Superleague? how do you devise a system that suits clubs who want to be in a Pyramid and those who don't, whilst all remaining under the SJFA umbrella? IMO those clubs in the West who responded positively to the Pyramid survey should be talking among themselves and reaching out to the EoSFL for help and advice on setting up a WoSFL independent of the SJFA and something that can be in place for next season, rather than waiting on another SJFA talking shop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tell_me_more Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: If they don't have all the responses, how can they say there will be Regional meetings and EGM's? I have no agenda, my opinion is based on previous experience at similar meetings in the past. Nobody should be under any illusion that the SJFA will lead them into the Pyramid anytime soon, they certainly wont be for giving up any power. As for a system fit and fair for all, how do you achieve that when there are polar opposite opinions even within the West Superleague? how do you devise a system that suits clubs who want to be in a Pyramid and those who don't, whilst all remaining under the SJFA umbrella? IMO those clubs in the West who responded positively to the Pyramid survey should be talking among themselves and reaching out to the EoSFL for help and advice on setting up a WoSFL independent of the SJFA and something that can be in place for next season, rather than waiting on another SJFA talking shop. 1/ They obviously have enough replies in to know where it's heading but not to publish results, anyway I would imagine there's procedures to go through and notify the clubs before PnB. 2/ No comment subjective. 3/ As stated before I don't think the clubs will be at polar opposites once a proper west region level 6 (presumably) is sorted for the West Premier. 4/ The West premier teams are stronger sticking together and fighting their case collectively and from that I believe the juniors will move into the pyramid collectively, the last thing we need is a dogs dinner west feeder league full of wannabees boys clubs etc etc who are not there on merit. Surely you see the reasoning for at least giving the regional meetings and possible EGM a fair crack first of all as it has the potential to bring about the best pyramid structure fairest to all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, tell_me_more said: 1/ They obviously have enough replies in to know where it's heading but not to publish results, anyway I would imagine there's procedures to go through and notify the clubs before PnB. 2/ No comment subjective. 3/ As stated before I don't think the clubs will be at polar opposites once a proper west region level 6 (presumably) is sorted for the West Premier. 4/ The West premier teams are stronger sticking together and fighting their case collectively and from that I believe the juniors will move into the pyramid collectively, the last thing we need is a dogs dinner west feeder league full of wannabees boys clubs etc etc who are not there on merit. Surely you see the reasoning for at least giving the regional meetings and possible EGM a fair crack first of all as it has the potential to bring about the best pyramid structure fairest to all. Great post and a pleasant change from all the anti Junior merchants.You very eloquently sum up the feelings of the majority of clubs in the West Region 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, tell_me_more said: 1/ They obviously have enough replies in to know where it's heading but not to publish results, anyway I would imagine there's procedures to go through and notify the clubs before PnB. 2/ No comment subjective. 3/ As stated before I don't think the clubs will be at polar opposites once a proper west region level 6 (presumably) is sorted for the West Premier. 4/ The West premier teams are stronger sticking together and fighting their case collectively and from that I believe the juniors will move into the pyramid collectively, the last thing we need is a dogs dinner west feeder league full of wannabees boys clubs etc etc who are not there on merit. Surely you see the reasoning for at least giving the regional meetings and possible EGM a fair crack first of all as it has the potential to bring about the best pyramid structure fairest to all. 1. In which case they shouldn't be talking EGM's if not all results are in. On the other hand if it's overwhelmingly conclusive then notify the clubs of results received to date. They haven't. 2. Fair enough, just explaining where I'm coming from. 3. Supposition, but why vote against a Pyramid given the SJFA were looking for feedback on a move into the Pyramid as an existing body? Makes no sense. 4.The West clubs don't really need to "fight" their case, the EoS have already offered (allegedly, but no reason to doubt) to assist in setting up a WoSFL, a move the SFA are unlikely to oppose and one which could be in place for next season (the LL was set-up in 6 weeks). Why does it need to be a dugs dinner if enough Junior clubs want it? why does it need the SJFA to lead them to it? I understand that some clubs want to remain loyal and stick by the SJFA, but it staggers me why they would given past attitudes to the Pyramid. A leopard doesn't change its spots, and there will be plenty of opposing views wanting to derail any move. Edited March 21, 2018 by Burnie_man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tell_me_more Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: 1. In which case they shouldn't be talking EGM's if not all results are in. On the other hand if it's overwhelmingly conclusive then notify the clubs of results received to date. They haven't. 2. Fair enough, just explaining where I'm coming from. 3. Supposition, but why vote against a Pyramid given the SJFA were looking for feedback on a move into the Pyramid as an existing body? Makes no sense. 4.The West clubs don't really need to "fight" their case, the EoS have already offered (allegedly, but no reason to doubt) to assist in setting up a WoSFL, a move the SFA are unlikely to oppose and one which could be in place for next season (the LL was set-up in 6 weeks). Why does it need to be a dugs dinner if enough Junior clubs want it? why does it need the SJFA to lead them to it? I understand that some clubs want to remain loyal and stick by the SJFA, but it staggers me why they would given past attitudes to the Pyramid. A leopard doesn't change its spots, and there will be plenty of opposing views wanting to derail any move. Should be plenty happening over the next few months to keep this 100,000 + views thread rolling along for a bit yet. We will find out soon enough what, if anything, is going to happen with the Juniors regarding the pyramid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only an observer Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, tell_me_more said: All the replies have not been received so how can they publish results? The majority are in favour so far. Clubs at the top in the West are obviously not enthused by it as it stands with access through the SOS EOS however ask them if they are interested in entering en masse and I think you will have a different outcome. Just my opinion. Your agenda seems more anti junior and pyramid at any cost rather than going through the proper procedure of consulting all the clubs and coming up with a system that is fit for the future and fair to all. I was of the mind that the the following was pertinent to the survey/questionnaire. I shall be obliged if you will please return the Questionnaire by email to scottishjuniorfa@blah blah blah.com no later than 28 February. So I reckon that all relevant information is to hand for TJ and the blazers to make an informed decision on the way forward or backwards, whatever is the case. Edited March 21, 2018 by Only an observer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, tell_me_more said: Should be plenty happening over the next few months to keep this 100,000 + views thread rolling along for a bit yet. We will find out soon enough what, if anything, is going to happen with the Juniors regarding the pyramid. Indeed, and whatever happens and by whatever method, I for one hope to see all Junior clubs in the Pyramid in a few seasons time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tell_me_more Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Only an observer said: I was of the mind that the the following was pertinent to the survey/questionnaire. I shall be obliged if you will please return the Questionnaire by email to scottishjuniorfa@blah blah blah.com no later than 28 February. So I reckon that all relevant information is to hand for TJ and the blazers to make an informed decision on the way forward or backwards, whatever is the case. I believe that date was extended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I believe that date was extended. Typical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, tell_me_more said: So looks like regional discussions and an EGM for the JUniors to discuss the pyramid and the best and fairest way forward for all clubs, far better than the ham fisted efforts proposed by some on here. If I had a crystal ball I reckon : Juniors entering en masse season 19/20 West premier coming in at level 6 Bit of a dogs dinner in the East that will need to be worked around for the betterment of the game going forward, somethings got to give. Obviously lots of details up for discussion. 3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Is this something that's actually happening, or just a suggestion. Minutes of the SJFA Management Committee meeting that took place last Thursday were emailed to clubs a few hours ago. They include a lengthy section on the pyramid. Summarising: 1. Approx 40 clubs have not responded and these will be "expedited" in order for a detailed analysis to be carried out 2. Overwhelming majority of responses are in favour of joining the pyramid and calling an EGM before the AGM is being considered. 3. Prior to that regional meetings will be held 4. An earlier meeting between SJFA, SFA, HL, LL and EoSL had not reached a conclusive outcome & further discussions are planned 5. If SJFA joins the pyramid, clubs can take part in both Junior & Senior Cup subject to licensing and MC feels this is a better way forward than fragmentation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS7 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I don’t think the sjfa grasp the reality of the situation. If I was a betting man, I’d guess point 4 was probably a right laugh for the other leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Burnie_man said: 1. In which case they shouldn't be talking EGM's if not all results are in. On the other hand if it's overwhelmingly conclusive then notify the clubs of results received to date. They haven't. 2. Fair enough, just explaining where I'm coming from. 3. Supposition, but why vote against a Pyramid given the SJFA were looking for feedback on a move into the Pyramid as an existing body? Makes no sense. 4.The West clubs don't really need to "fight" their case, the EoS have already offered (allegedly, but no reason to doubt) to assist in setting up a WoSFL, a move the SFA are unlikely to oppose and one which could be in place for next season (the LL was set-up in 6 weeks). Why does it need to be a dugs dinner if enough Junior clubs want it? why does it need the SJFA to lead them to it? I understand that some clubs want to remain loyal and stick by the SJFA, but it staggers me why they would given past attitudes to the Pyramid. A leopard doesn't change its spots, and there will be plenty of opposing views wanting to derail any move. The LL was set up in six weeks, and it doesn't half show. The last thing that should happen is that anything gets rushed through and no lesson is learned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Isabel Goudie said: The LL was set up in six weeks, and it doesn't half show. The last thing that should happen is that anything gets rushed through and no lesson is learned. What's so difficult about moving those West Junior clubs who want to be in the Pyramid next season into a newly formed WoSFL? answer, not a lot. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleptomaniac Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Minutes of the SJFA Management Committee meeting that took place last Thursday were emailed to clubs a few hours ago. They include a lengthy section on the pyramid. Summarising: 1. Approx 40 clubs have not responded and these will be "expedited" in order for a detailed analysis to be carried out 2. Overwhelming majority of responses are in favour of joining the pyramid and calling an EGM before the AGM is being considered. 3. Prior to that regional meetings will be held 4. An earlier meeting between SJFA, SFA, HL, LL and EoSL had not reached a conclusive outcome & further discussions are planned 5. If SJFA joins the pyramid, clubs can take part in both Junior & Senior Cup subject to licensing and MC feels this is a better way forward than fragmentation I’m guessing these minutes were only circulated to the West clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, BS7 said: I don’t think the sjfa grasp the reality of the situation. If I was a betting man, I’d guess point 4 was probably a right laugh for the other leagues. Correct. "We'd like to join the Pyramid at tier 6 as a separate FA and with our own national cup competition please" "erm.........aye ok then..........we'll get back to you............" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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