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Burnie_man

Junior football, what is the future?

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1 hour ago, gogsy said:

I know Cowdenbeath are having a poor season  but putting them down two divisions seems to be a bit unfair.:unsure: Speculation doesn't meaning anything, only one of those clubs mentioned have confirmed they are joining EOS league next season.

 

Sorry and well spotted, as I should have said, plus Vale of Leithen (not Cowden) who I am tipping to be relegated (along with Hawick RA) as the 'knock on' 2nd relegated club from the LL into the EoSL, after the Blue Brazil lose to Cove in the SPFL play-off. This also assumes that Cove will defeat the LL champions (probably Spartans or East Kilbride), in the HFL/LL playoff, which I consider to be likely. 

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10 hours ago, Robert James said:

So speculating based upon expressions of interest (past & present), the 6 or 7 new EoSL clubs could be:

Dalkeith, Clydebank, Bonnyrigg, Bo'Ness, Kilwinning, Haddington (juniors) and Cowdenbeath (if Cove Rangers win the SPFL relegation play-off).

Does anyone know of any other declarations of interest , or impending EGMs ?

Bo'ness is short for Borrowstounness and doesn't have a capital N (sorry just needed to get that out of my system as one side of my family was from there and it gets on my nerves a wee bit). I'm not in the loop in Bo'ness United terms but they weren't shy about talking about it in the Falkirk Herald last year and having a meeting with some of their supporters, so I'm skeptical they are a factor at the moment. Think they would prefer to move together with Linlithgow Rose to keep the derby that their season tends to revolve around intact and given we are hearing nothing about EGMs in Linlithgow I suspect the Rose are happy where they are for now given they are already licensed. I suspect Kilwinning Rangers are not a factor as they would be viewed as being firmly in SoS territory and with them it's the new WoS thing that they might be interested in. Don't think Cowdenbeath are a factor as they'll be able to stay in the development/reserve league if they want to, because that's how Scottish football tends to work. So if I were doing the speculating I think the two to three beyond Dalkeith, Clydebank, Bonnyrigg and Haddington (maybe anyway, don't think that's fully confirmed) could be pretty much any of the other east region clubs that could get licensed reasonably quickly and it may just be clubs inquiring about what's involved with an eye to the future rather than something imminent.  For it to fly under the radar it's more likely to be smaller clubs with smaller memberships that can easily be canvassed for an opinion like Blackburn or St Andrews United than one of the big name superleague clubs that need to do a highly visible formal EGM like Bonnyrigg and  Clydebank are doing. We'll find out what the story is soon enough.

 

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11 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

I'm guessing the club just north of Dundee would be Montrose Roselea. They've played at Links Park in the league, I wonder if that would be a permanent plan rather than doing up Broomfield, although that park wouldn't be too far off.

Will be interesting to see what the HFL do, clubs are in theory free to apply as per their constitution, I suspect a rejection will result in an appeal to the SFA that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.

What's the club just north of Dundee bit all about? Is that for EoS entry or getting licensed? Given the boundary between the LL and HL has been adjusted to the mouth of the North Esk rather than the Tay all of the senior and junior clubs in Angus and Perthshire are now firmly in the LL catchment.

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Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

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1 hour ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

A fully integrated Pyramid provides a lot more opportunity to regionalise the further down you go, particularly in the East as it stands if and when the East Juniors and EoS become one.

So for those Fife clubs who hanker after a return to the Fife League, the Pyramid probably provides a better long term opportunity for this to happen, particularly if Amateurs come on board.

The only other way is if a rump of Junior clubs continue to "hold out" and it happens out of necessity, but there's no future in that.

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On 3/11/2018 at 22:46, Cyclizine said:

I'm guessing the club just north of Dundee would be Montrose Roselea. They've played at Links Park in the league, I wonder if that would be a permanent plan rather than doing up Broomfield, although that park wouldn't be too far off.

Will be interesting to see what the HFL do, clubs are in theory free to apply as per their constitution, I suspect a rejection will result in an appeal to the SFA that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.

I know this is hardly my place to speculate, but Broughty Athletic are quite a solid outfit... and are just north of Dundee, just!

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In an ideal world there would be a pathway from the premiership all the way down to your local amateur outfit under one SFA although I suppose the difficulty would be the different types of contracts etc - the majority of the better run amateur leagues would be very simple to join below a junior league with the most complex part being the number of teams that get promoted/relegated through playoffs.

Senior (all the leagues including a west of scotland)

Junior (the same leagues as things stand however premier leagues feed into north/east/south/west senior leagues)

Amateur (more complex although the same leagues feeding their respective junior lowest tier leagues - potentially having a new 'elite' leagues that would be promoted into the juniors which would still allow the number of leagues in amateur/the new ones being created and teams can opt out of promotion into this?)

 

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8 hours ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

No idea about any Amateurs looking to move to the Juniors, but a Senior at this point seems unlikely. The momentum that saw Easthouses and Craigroyston move to the East Region looks to have been reversed in the EoSFL's favour and doesn't seem like that will change.

A EoSFL, SoSFL or HFL club are more likely to take a year out or join the local amateur set up. Which is mainly down to the geography of the leagues.

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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So it's now 2 weeks since the closing date for the SJFA Pyramid survey.

How long does it take to count up a 100 or so replies.

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14 hours ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

Third Lanark (Amateur) FC website states that the club intends to join the Juniors (no timescale), albeit as part of the club's long term aim is to become a senior club (again). Currently it has an excellent youth section, and the adult team is already successful the Greater Glasgow Premier AFL.  Apparently Thirds are ground sharing at Vale of Clyde FC.

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14 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

So it's now 2 weeks since the closing date for the SJFA Pyramid survey.

How long does it take to count up a 100 or so replies.

No time at all.  So why is there a vale of silence from the SJFA, the SFA, and also from the clubs themselves, with very few exceptions ?

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While the East Region has a "convenience of geography" problem. Is there any thoughts on the West Region, in paricular Central clubs, have a "doorstep" problem? The most direct comparisons East Kilbride Thistle = East Kilbride FC & Cumbernauld United = Cumbernauld Colts. Not to mention BSC Glasgow and the next likely boys club project likely to come from the Greater Glasgow area.

While the Senior clubs might not have an advantage in terms of fans and tradition. They must be picking up sponsors, youth prospects and what could be the next generation of committee members that help keep Junior clubs going.

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So Dalkeith Thistle definitely, Clydebank & Bonyrigg possibly and also rumours about Hill of Beath and Edinburgh United.  Anyone else?

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This guy claims to know the score:

20 hours ago, Che Dail said:

'Panic' is unreasoned and arbitrary. There is no panic - clubs seeking to move are taking logical and pragmatic steps to look after their long-term interests.

From what I can gather there are at least 4 East SL club committees (including Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness) discussing a move to the EoS plus 3 Premier clubs (including Dalkeith) and 1 from the South League. 

Add also the club 'just north of Tay' whatever league they play in. 

Kelty paved the way...

 

4 East SL: Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness United, Hill of Beath? and ???

3 East PL: Dalkeith, Haddington? and ???

South: Edinburgh United?

Just north of the Tay: ???

 

from the west: Clydebank

 

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23 hours ago, Sunrise said:

I know this is hardly my place to speculate, but Broughty Athletic are quite a solid outfit... and are just north of Dundee, just!

Broughty have big plans and their new ground should be cracking but I think it will be too early for them and they'd have to do some amount of travelling if joining the EoS now as no teams in it locally.

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Camelon, Blackburn, Musselburgh ????

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15 hours ago, Robert James said:

Third Lanark (Amateur) FC website states that the club intends to join the Juniors (no timescale), albeit as part of the club's long term aim is to become a senior club (again). Currently it has an excellent youth section, and the adult team is already successful the Greater Glasgow Premier AFL.  Apparently Thirds are ground sharing at Vale of Clyde FC.

They're successful in the middle division of one of the worst amateur leagues in the West - why did they not join the SAFL, CSAFL or CAFL when their previously poor league (WosAFL) folded?

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3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Just north of the Tay: ???

I wonder how that would work with promotion out of EoS when the Lowland/Highland dividing line is the Tay?

Edited by Ginaro

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The dividing line got moved to the North Esk, which is a few miles north of Montrose, so all junior and senior clubs in Angus and Perthshire now fall into the Lowland League catchment.

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9 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I wonder how that would work with promotion out of EoS when the Lowland/Highland dividing line is the Tay?

It isn't - the dividing line is a line of latitude that is just north of Montrose.

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