Junior football, what is the future?

[Antony]

12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It's as possible as anything else just about. There's basically 3 options that get thrown out. 1) The Tayside clubs try to join the EoSFL 2) The Tayside clubs form a standalone Tier 6 league wherever they can get accepted. 3) Tayside and the North merge.

I suppose if the clubs have senior ambitions then options 1 and 2 are viable but I didn't think that was the case given the likes of Lochee United and Broughty didn't move to the East of Scotland leagues in the first place. It would be harsh on Luncarty if they can be accepted at tier 6.

[invergowrie arab]

30 minutes ago, Antony said:

I suppose if the clubs have senior ambitions then options 1 and 2 are viable but I didn't think that was the case given the likes of Lochee United and Broughty didn't move to the East of Scotland leagues in the first place. It would be harsh on Luncarty if they can be accepted at tier 6.

I would imagine, and it's no more than me making stuff up as I go along, that any Midland league feeding into LL would have Perthshire teams pulled back in to that geography.

If it was an HL feeder i suppose likes of Luncarty could always choose to go Tier 6 but feeding north.

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, Antony said:

I suppose if the clubs have senior ambitions then options 1 and 2 are viable but I didn't think that was the case given the likes of Lochee United and Broughty didn't move to the East of Scotland leagues in the first place. It would be harsh on Luncarty if they can be accepted at tier 6.

I wouldn't worry about Luncarty. Another Lowland League feeder is very unlikely. The LL would basically be redrawing/scrapping the SPFL Play-off boundary to allow for it, which would need the SPFL to give a concession worthwhile for them. There's also the WoSFL and EoSFL that would looking for greater promotion opportunities not splitting them with another league.

The Tayside Tier 6 league is really more of a Highland League feeder concept. One that might be struggling even more if the clubs aren't happy with the difference in levels with a single division set up.

As for 2018 the two factor at play from a Tayside pov for not moving were the SJFA looked like it could still enter intact, and the EoSFL were stand-offish to Tayside applicants due to the SPFL Play-off boundary.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

8 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

@Bestsinceslicebread has claimed he was told by people on the committees of three (?) clubs that they are going to EoS next season. With the Lithgae Rose tribute act folding the first bit doesn't exactly come out of the blue. It would be more surprising if that didn't happen.

No easy answers on the second bit. If there are people at the larger Dundee clubs that are wanting to be a tier 5 Midlands League losing some of the weaker links to the amateurs might not be viewed as a bad thing from their perspective. Think tier 6 is more realistic and what happens with Brechin City and the Club 42 rule is probably the key to whether that would be in a LL (could be EoS rather than standalone Midlands League) or HL feeder.  The HL and NCL never mention Tayside in the context of north pyramid negotiations. You only ever really see that being discussed as a serious option on here (a bit like the EoS winding up with a Third Division).

 

I will have to say that its not claimed, its fact, but i will say that's their intention right now to be leaving the junior league for the senior EOS league.  But I'm not privy from now to the end of the seasons how their finances will be and all other running's of the clubs if they do go ahead with it.  Then again, some clubs in the WOS are run a certain way and nothing will ever be expected from those teams at the level they are at but who is so say that they change the running's of their club that there might be progress.  I will say out of the 3 whom I have spoken to me, one of the clubs is more junior inclined to stay but feel they don't want to be left behind

[Antony]

1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I will have to say that its not claimed, its fact, but i will say that's their intention right now to be leaving the junior league for the senior EOS league.  But I'm not privy from now to the end of the seasons how their finances will be and all other running's of the clubs if they do go ahead with it.  Then again, some clubs in the WOS are run a certain way and nothing will ever be expected from those teams at the level they are at but who is so say that they change the running's of their club that there might be progress.  I will say out of the 3 whom I have spoken to me, one of the clubs is more junior inclined to stay but feel they don't want to be left behind

Is it Lothian League juniors who are leaving for the EOS league next season or can you not say? 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

8 hours ago, Antony said:

Is it Lothian League juniors who are leaving for the EOS league next season or can you not say? 

its just 3 teams from the east side and they are not (trying) to leave the juniors. They are staying this season to the finish and then will look at their options but are favoring the pyramid.  Each person has stated that, that is their intention but the last person I spoke to from a club was over a month ago, although someone from a west club reiterated about a club that i already knew.

What do you want me to say, I've usually been correct in my views, assumptions and or facts in the past

Edited December 14, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Whitburn Vale]

Yep,was speaking to an Armadale Thistle player who I work with and he said it was the ATFC committee's wish to win the east (south) junior league this season as it's the "last" ever!!

And yeah they're applying to join the EoS for next season 

[Burnieman]

Yep,was speaking to an Armadale Thistle player who I work with and he said it was the ATFC committee's wish to win the east (south) junior league this season as it's the "last" ever!!
And yeah they're applying to join the EoS for next season [emoji106]

And "your" mob I believe, so you'll be able to return to Central Park now.

[Whitburn Vale]

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

11 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Yep,was speaking to an Armadale Thistle player who I work with and he said it was the ATFC committee's wish to win the east (south) junior league this season as it's the "last" ever!!
And yeah they're applying to join the EoS for next season 

And "your" mob I believe, so you'll be able to return to Central Park now.

Good news burnie

Bang on,Myself and friends told the committee we wont be back until WJFC were in the EoS!!

Hopefully we'll back next season....

[FairWeatherFan]

I had a look at the South Superleague table to see where things stand. While its still very early doors Syngenta and Bo'ness United Juniors have got off to a decent start with two wins and a draw (against each other). Maybe a wee reminder of how far some of the traditional clubs have fallen.

[Stag Nation]

38 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I had a look at the South Superleague table to see where things stand. While its still very early doors Syngenta and Bo'ness United Juniors have got off to a decent start with two wins and a draw (against each other). Maybe a wee reminder of how far some of the traditional clubs have fallen.

Fallen?

But, but ... they're in a "Superleague".

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 hours ago, Burnieman said:

3 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Yep,was speaking to an Armadale Thistle player who I work with and he said it was the ATFC committee's wish to win the east (south) junior league this season as it's the "last" ever!!
And yeah they're applying to join the EoS for next season 

And "your" mob I believe, so you'll be able to return to Central Park now.

We've been hearing that for the last two seasons then they get scared.

 

3 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Good news burnie

Bang on,Myself and friends told the committee we wont be back until WJFC were in the EoS!!

Hopefully we'll back next season....

Hopefully Whitburn and the others will joins us all next season

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Stag Nation said:

Fallen?

But, but ... they're in a "Superleague".

Has anybody actually been trying to argue that since the Fife clubs all left? Haven't seen or heard that happening anywhere, presumably becuse everybody knows it would by patently absurd. Not entirely clear why the West Lothian clubs hung in there for the extra season, but maybe they mistakenly believed they could hook up with a faction in the west somehow and were not expecting an LL organised WoS to have 63 out of 63. 

The EoS will definitely benefit from having Whitburn, Bathgate, Armadale and Fauldhouse on board once they do their self-inflicted stint at tier 8. A seventh tier next season looks a bit short on quality compared to the way things were at the comparable level in the old east region with very few West Lothian and no Dundee/Angus clubs around and Bo'ness, Kelty and Bonnyrigg having moved on to bigger things at tier 5.

[whitburn exile]

9 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Good news burnie

Bang on,Myself and friends told the committee we wont be back until WJFC were in the EoS!!

Hopefully we'll back next season....

The silence from the committee is worrying though. It’s as if they haven’t learnt from the mistake to not join the super league years ago. I have asked in the clubs Facebook pages a number of times but never gotten an answer 

[TheLad]

The West Lothian clubs that used to be big teams simply suffered from a lack of reality and ambition. The price they are having to pay is that when they do finally admit they need to move, it will take a good few years to catch up on teams they were traditionally ahead of, or considered as equals. It may never happen again for some of them.
Some of them will just fold.

[LongTimeLurker]

If Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts, Crossgates Primrose and Blackburn can feature in the east premier, it's difficult to try to argue that the bar is set as high as was the case with the east superleague. Think the larger clubs that can get licensed reasonably easily like Whitburn, Armadale and Bathgate will bounce back OK everntually in EoS terms but have put a serious dent into their chances of ever getting to the LL. The main question mark is probably more what happens with Syngenta and the Bo'ness United and Sauchie tribute acts (the Lithgae one seems to have already folded) as the former has already been knocked back once when Little Kerse was viewed as unsuitable and reserve teams don't appear to be viewed too favourably (or in Sauche's case likely to even be possible) in the latter. 

Will be interesting to see what happens with the Tayside clubs. There were mainstream media quotes from an EoS official in 2018 that made it sound like the Club 42 boundary applied, but patriot who is linked to St Andrews United has more recently made it clear that clubs are being told in EoS meetings that there is no geographical limit on who can apply and have their application voted on by the existing membership. Given the way the rules are written that was arguably always the case, if any club had wanted to test out what would happen as Luncarty subsequently did earlier this year.

[FairWeatherFan]

Most of the larger clubs were in the middle of a lull before the moves to the EoSFL. Whitburn were getting relegated back down to the South Division, Bathgate just avoided relegation there. Armadale were trying to climb their way out of the South. It was really only Fauldhouse that were doing well with what would have been promotion to the Superleague, and they've gone through some changes since then.

They've all probably been hampered in first team recruitment by being in the Juniors and behind in terms of development teams as well. If the EoSFL do regionalise the bottom tier it will be even harder to get out as they're all in it together. Getting licenced early will at least get them back on level playing field with those that left early.

Edited December 16, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts, Crossgates Primrose and Blackburn can feature in the east premier, it's difficult to try to argue that the bar is set as high as was the case with the east superleague. Think the larger clubs that can get licensed reasonably easily like Whitburn, Armadale and Bathgate will bounce back OK everntually in EoS terms but have put a serious dent into their chances of ever getting to the LL. The main question mark is probably more what happens with Syngenta and the Bo'ness United and Sauchie tribute acts (the Lithgae one seems to have already folded) as the former has already been knocked back once when Little Kerse was viewed as unsuitable and reserve teams don't appear to be viewed too favourably (or in Sauche's case likely to even be possible) in the latter. 

Will be interesting to see what happens with the Tayside clubs. There were mainstream media quotes from an EoS official in 2018 that made it sound like the Club 42 boundary applied, but patriot who is linked to St Andrews United has more recently made it clear that clubs are being told in EoS meetings that there is no geographical limit on who can apply and have their application voted on by the existing membership. Given the way the rules are written that was arguably always the case, if any club had wanted to test out what would happen as Luncarty subsequently did earlier this year.

Two points on your first point. 1 it's a bigger league as their is 18 clubs. The east super league was 12 clubs for a.long time before going to 18 clubs. Who are we missing lochee carnoustie broughty and fauldhouse. All had ups and downs 

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Two points on your first point. 1 it's a bigger league as their is 18 clubs. The east super league was 12 clubs for a.long time before going to 18 clubs. Who are we missing lochee carnoustie broughty and fauldhouse. All had ups and downs 

You're also forgetting Kelty Hearts, Bonnyrigg Rose, and Bo'ness United. Potentially another to be promoted out of it by the end of this season. The EoS Premier is never going to be the old East Super by virtue of being in the pyramid.

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You're also forgetting Kelty Hearts, Bonnyrigg Rose, and Bo'ness United. Potentially another to be promoted out of it by the end of this season. The EoS Premier is never going to be the old East Super by virtue of being in the pyramid.

 

Very good point. Not got the glass ceiling anymore