Andy groundhopper Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Do the WOSFL premier clubs have to play games on the designated grounds, or could they use any ground with lights to get fixtures out of the way ? Guessing that playing midweek would be preferable to training sessions, adding a possible bad weather winter to spoil things further. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said: Do the WOSFL premier clubs have to play games on the designated grounds, or could they use any ground with lights to get fixtures out of the way ? Guessing that playing midweek would be preferable to training sessions, adding a possible bad weather winter to spoil things further. I imagine there's a certain leeway within the rules. I know that the Lowland League had a specific rule that clubs would have a nominated ground with floodlights. And I remember that in the EoSFL last season LTHV had a game at Livingston's Almondvale but that was due to weather. That's really the key difference. You'll probably find an example across the leagues of clubs using different grounds but usually for games that have been postponed repeatedly or some other factor. Changing grounds out of emergency is a bit different to organising a fixture list around the idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcruic Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 26/07/2020 at 09:06, parsforlife said: You can’t just make things up. On what basis are you saying 20% bigger crowds? Only really Albion Rovers and Edinburgh city ever get crowds of 200 and that’s rearranged mid-week games. If you take Edinburgh city their crowds have gone up massively as a result of being promoted and playing national football.(as has been the case every for every team that has made the step up.) Not making things up - I calculated it using 2018/19 attendance figures and dividing Leagues 1 and 2 up north/south. 15 of the 20 teams had higher attendances on average than they did with north and south teams included. The teams with lower crowds tended to be around the north/south dividing line. And yes, the average attendance is something like 485. 5 teams have average attendances below 500. Most of Albion Rovers' matches were in the 200s or 300s, with one being just 145. The point is, the crowds are pretty low. Higher crowds bring in more money, so it does matter when crowds are so low. Edinburgh City crowds have gone up as a result of being promoted. Yes. Not necessarily because they are playing nationwide - their crowds would have gone up even if they had been promoted to a League 1 South. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcruic Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 26/07/2020 at 07:20, Marshmallo said: What attendance figure do we need to get to in order for things to be working? No crowds of less than 300 would be a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcruic Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: In this instance its because they probably can't fit in the 32 game season they would otherwise have to play. Don't know exactly how they would split it with 17 clubs but say its a top 8 and bottom 9. That's 16+7 = 23 games. Champion also contests two legged final against the Lothian league winners for overall East Region champion. And 16+8 = 24 games for the bottom section. Lothian League is only 13 teams so would be a 24 game season. Which makes it easier to arrange for the two legged Championship playoff and to arrange the Region cup competitions. If they're going to split it, why don't they just leave it as it is with 2 divisions of 8 and 9 and have more competitive leagues? Play each other 3 times - 21 games for top division, 24 for bottom. Not really much point in a Lochee United v Forfar Albion or Carnoustie Panmure v Coupar Angus league match. Also, apart from the Tayside league containing 1 team from Fife, the Lothian league contains 3 from Clackmannanshire/Falkirk. Not sure what was wrong with the North/South names unless they're thinking of splitting up and forming 2 separate regions. Edited July 27, 2020 by mcruic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 5 hours ago, mcruic said: Most of Albion Rovers' matches were in the 200s or 300s, with one being just 145. The point is, the crowds are pretty low. Higher crowds bring in more money, so it does matter when crowds are so low. The 145 game being against Annan Atheltic on the 29th December. A team that they would of been playing in the Southern Division. 2018-19 season isn't he best for Albion Rovers. Going into the season they were tipped for relegation after hiring a lower league manager from the Juniors and were apparently signing players that wouldn't make a West Premiership side. Highlighted by how they spent the first 29 rounds: It's not the atmosphere of drawing out decent crowds. 5 hours ago, mcruic said: If they're going to split it, why don't they just leave it as it is with 2 divisions of 8 and 9 and have more competitive leagues? Play each other 3 times - 21 games for top division, 24 for bottom. Not really much point in a Lochee United v Forfar Albion or Carnoustie Panmure v Coupar Angus league match. Also, apart from the Tayside league containing 1 team from Fife, the Lothian league contains 3 from Clackmannanshire/Falkirk. Not sure what was wrong with the North/South names unless they're thinking of splitting up and forming 2 separate regions. Remove Luncarty you have 9-8. East Craigie was the team I believe filed the appeal over the null and void decision as they wanted promoted. Those are probably some of the factors why a 17 with a split is being considered. But they may well be considering other options. The 17 with a split was the one mentioned. Which is also why I used the shorthand of Tayside and Lothian as it was what was used to originate the discussion since North/South is rather generic. While Tayport are from Fife they played in the old Tayside leagues so are considered a Tayside club not Fife. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 6 hours ago, mcruic said: Also, apart from the Tayside league containing 1 team from Fife, the Lothian league contains 3 from Clackmannanshire/Falkirk. Not sure what was wrong with the North/South names unless they're thinking of splitting up and forming 2 separate regions. The Tay has two sides, and Tayport is on one of them. On the other hand, Arbroath, Forfar etc. are not on Tayside by any stretch of the imagination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Stag Nation said: The Tay has two sides, and Tayport is on one of them. On the other hand, Arbroath, Forfar etc. are not on Tayside by any stretch of the imagination. The Tayside region includes all of Angus, so Arbroath and Forfar as well. It doesn't include Tayport. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Marten said: The Tayside region includes all of Angus, so Arbroath and Forfar as well. It doesn't include Tayport. The word is "included". Tayside Region existed only from 1975 to 1995, and was abolished by the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, Stag Nation said: The word is "included". Tayside Region existed only from 1975 to 1995, and was abolished by the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994. This is irrelevant to the make up of football leagues. The Highland League contains clubs who aren't in the Highland Council region. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 In terms of football, specifically Junior football. Tayside includes Tayport. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Stag Nation said: The word is "included". Tayside Region existed only from 1975 to 1995, and was abolished by the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994. I know that, but generally when "Tayside" is referred to in any context, it always includes all of Angus. NHS services in places like Arbroath, Forfar and Brechin, are all provided by NHS Tayside for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE63 exile Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I find it interesting that some junior/now senior teams are baulking at travel, but you've got teams like Fort William who seem to manage somehow despite very little success and despite the added costs of Highland League membership. Kinlochleven is only 22 miles away from Fort William, and their amateur team (South Lochaber Thistle) - who incidentally beat Fort William away in a 2018 pre-season friendly - play in the Greater Glasgow Premier Amateur League - where pretty much every away match is a 100-mile trip. I'm sure they've got a lot of players from the Glasgow area in the team, but they do play at home - and clubs have to travel the 100 miles to Kinlochleven to play them. You've also got Lochgilphead Red Star playing in the Scottish Amateur Football League - where many teams are from the Glasgow area, 90-100 miles away. There's also other teams from out west in that league - Campbeltown, Dunoon, etc. Campbeltown to Glasgow is over 130 miles. You've also got Rothesay and Rhu in the Caledonian Amateur League, which also has teams from Stirlingshire - 60 or 70 mile trips. These teams have played in these leagues for years. So, how do these amateur teams manage to find the funds to travel year in year out? Fewer overheads giving them more money to spend on travelling? Something else? A good few of the Argyll amateur sides have community minibuses that they use for away games. Still will cost the club money to put fuel in the tank which won’t come cheap I would imagine.You have to take your hat off to these guys who make that trip down the A82 every other week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 16 hours ago, mcruic said: No crowds of less than 300 would be a start. What would you do if clubs were getting crowds under 300 in any structure? Would they be expelled? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 The final make up of fixtures for the 2 new east leagues will depend on when they can start.My understanding is they are going to get the okay to start training shortly. Certainly no sign of any league start before October.The irony of whether a junior match will allow any supporters or not should acknowledge that clubs can now have car boot sales running.Tayport had a well run system on Sunday with around 80 cars I would estimate and possibly upwards of 300 people wandering around the pitch and grounds.If that can be authorized in July I really cannot see why we cant be watching this level in the same standard of facility in October. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 To be honest, if the cup competitions other than the Junior Cup are being suspended for next season, I can see a league staringting in October being completed with 34 games. If needed, just play twice a week from April-ish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Just a quickie, in Bristol today a pre season friendly : Cribbs (western lge) v Burnham (Somerset) 3-1 with an attendance of 15 kicked off 1030. Thought clubs weren't allowed to have spectators, a gathering of 30 was changed to 'no spectators, gatherings of any size at training or matches' Don't know if I've misread the guidelines, seemed stupid to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeek Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Just a quickie, in Bristol today a pre season friendly : Cribbs (western lge) v Burnham (Somerset) 3-1 with an attendance of 15 kicked off 1030. Thought clubs weren't allowed to have spectators, a gathering of 30 was changed to 'no spectators, gatherings of any size at training or matches' Don't know if I've misread the guidelines, seemed stupid to me.Isn't it level 7 and below are allowed to have fans socially distanced? We play a western lge prem team on Tuesday so can confirm ETA Shepton Mallet today 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Maybe that's the reason then, up to 30 spread about the ground. Thought that had been changed - ps step 7 is County League level downwards I think. Looking at the Arsenal fans in a pub, looks as if it's all back to normal down south. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGafraidh Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 On 28/07/2020 at 08:59, Marshmallo said: What would you do if clubs were getting crowds under 300 in any structure? Would they be expelled? You are then looking at the likes of Albion Rovers who have had recent home crowds of mid 200s 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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